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Dead Men Walking

dMw Chit Chat => The Beer Bar => Technology Section => Topic started by: OldBloke on November 23, 2003, 11:29:54 PM

Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 23, 2003, 11:29:54 PM
What's finally arrived?

The day when my ageing GFX card is not supported at all by a games release.  :(

My trusty GeForce2 GTS Pro has served me extremely well, even running such recent games as Halo and Homeworld2. But, alas, the recently released demo of Deus Ex: Invisible War refuses to even start. :angry:

So it looks like it's time to dip into my reserves and purchase a new card.

What can I get for groat?  :D
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Swoop on November 24, 2003, 03:37:51 AM
Well i highly reccomend getting a ATI card. Perhaps i might suggest the best there is Radeon 9800 series.. or perhaps save a little on the money and take 9700 serires.
To save more money (and still get more performace pr. buck, than any other card) get the 9600 card.

But hey.. u want the new one to alst as long as the old right ? So get the biggest, and the investment will pay off :D

and i say DONT GET GEFORCE FX card. They are not as good as the others, and higher price.
Come on .. when HL2 cant run DX9 on FX cards, it cant be a good sign :)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 24, 2003, 07:40:48 AM
/me recommends ATI 9800 Pro

Maybe You, me and Smite should try to negotiate bulk purchase terms for a three card christmas order?  Anyone else interested in jumping on the bandwagon?

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Gandalf on November 24, 2003, 08:13:50 AM
I wouldn't wory too much about the demo. It looks like it will be an ok game but the demo was extremely unpolished. It ran slower than halo, I had to turn the resolution right down (and this game only used DX 8.1!) to get it anywhere near responsive and the graphics are awful, really poor quality textures.

And it's not my comp that is the problem, I can play Max Payne 2 at 1280x1024 on maximum detail setting with no slowdown what so ever.

I'm just hoping that it's the demo that is bad and they are polishing the game, but if the demo is a reflection of the game, I'll be cancelling my pre-order.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Swoop on November 24, 2003, 09:08:20 AM
I never pre-order games. I wait for store dates, try them in stores and THEN decided whether or not it holds up.
Just a poor student that cant afford to throw away money on a game that i dont even wanna bother finishing :D

But as TL said.. the big radeon cards.. GET THEM! :D
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: FATAL on November 24, 2003, 02:29:01 PM
got a radeon 9600 pro haven't used it yet cos the case i ordered had a solid ali back plate ,and it don't accept my nf7 mobo ,
so i got a new computer i can't use til i get another case ,
this all went on last friday but to get a new case i have to wait til tuesday .
I JUST WANT MY COMPUTER NOW :rant:  :rant:  :rant:

plus i got a amd athlon 26000 barton,any1 know wot the barton's r like 4 overclocking
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: ChimpBoy on November 24, 2003, 04:54:14 PM
I got a 9700 pro from ATI - highly recommended and imho better than Nvidia (I had a GEForce 3 before)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: A Twig on November 24, 2003, 06:42:43 PM
I got a Radeon 9000 for bout £60 and it works! no frills, nothing fancy, but all the games I run work!
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: JB on November 24, 2003, 07:13:43 PM
Your behind the times Oldone, i used to have a GTS and found about 8 months ago that it refused to run a game, forget which one it is now though.   :blink:
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 24, 2003, 07:16:03 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by JB@Nov 24 2003, 07:13 PM
Your behind the times Oldone, i used to have a GTS and found about 8 months ago that it refused to run a game, forget which one it is now though.   :blink:
In theory you're right but, like I said, it's been running everything i've thrown at it so far.

By the way I want change from my groat so the 9800 Turbo Nutter B*stard aint on the menu.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: smite on November 24, 2003, 07:28:23 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Nov 24 2003, 07:40 AM
/me recommends ATI 9800 Pro

Maybe You, me and Smite should try to negotiate bulk purchase terms for a three card christmas order?  Anyone else interested in jumping on the bandwagon?

TL.
I like the sound of that.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2003, 08:38:23 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke+Nov 24 2003, 07:16 PM-->
QUOTE (OldBloke @ Nov 24 2003, 07:16 PM)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: sheepy on November 24, 2003, 10:01:35 PM
does this meen that my GF2 MX will be on its way out soon as well!!!!! bugger. i love this card its just about the only thing in my computer that doesnt break downon a weekly basis
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2003, 11:06:30 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by sheepy@Nov 24 2003, 10:01 PM
does this meen that my GF2 MX will be on its way out soon as well!!!!! bugger. i love this card its just about the only thing in my computer that doesnt break downon a weekly basis
Well if OB don't want it it's yours :)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Dingo on November 25, 2003, 03:45:33 PM
Think some of you wanted to see this??


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/96/1/ (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/96/1/)


and this appears to be a contender at approx $100 less!!
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/83/ (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/83/)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 25, 2003, 05:06:15 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Dingo@Nov 25 2003, 03:45 PM
Think some of you wanted to see this??


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/96/1/ (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/96/1/)


and this appears to be a contender at approx $100 less!!
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/83/ (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/83/)
I think we already did ;)

http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3533 (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3533)

Actually you got the prices the wrong way round - the HIS is $100 cheaper than the ATI XT and is faster too :)

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Dingo on November 25, 2003, 10:58:41 PM
Now correct me if I'm wrong folks?, but did TL just have a blonde moment??!! :dribble:
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 26, 2003, 07:30:18 AM
/colour me confused, not blonde......

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 26, 2003, 07:33:23 AM
OK. A budget has been set ...

Can you trawlers of GFX card excellence find me the best £150 deal?

9600 PRO?
9800se?

Enlighten me wise ones.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Dr Sadako on November 26, 2003, 09:46:20 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Nov 26 2003, 08:33 AM
OK. A budget has been set ...

Can you trawlers of GFX card excellence find me the best £150 deal?

9600 PRO?
9800se?

Enlighten me wise ones.

Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP, ATI, "Ultimate Edition", Retail

GBP 137.17 inc. VAT
(GBP 116.74 ex. VAT)

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?action=...GrpID=1&cks=PRL (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=119627&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL)



Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis PRO 128MB
- AGP, ATI 9600PRO, VIVO, DVI-I, Retail

GBP 121.17 inc. VAT
(GBP 103.12 ex. VAT)

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?action=...GrpID=1&cks=PRL (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=119061&p=&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=PRL)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Dingo on November 26, 2003, 09:50:43 AM
Fill your boots her!!   :D

http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cp_11160...ati_radeon.html (http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cp_111601_filter_graphics_processor_ati_radeon.html)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 26, 2003, 10:09:53 AM
Thanks for the quick replies chaps.

Where can I see these various beauties compared?
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Dr Sadako on November 26, 2003, 10:13:28 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Nov 26 2003, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the quick replies chaps.

Where can I see these various beauties compared?
An older guide but quite comprehensive.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/200307...0714/index.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/index.html)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 26, 2003, 06:07:40 PM
For my 2 cents Oldie, I think you need to ask Father Christmas to advance you and extra £60 and get a 9700 Pro before they *all* disappear form the shops.  Dabs (http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/components/graphicscards/productView.htm?quicklinx=287Z) has them at the moment at £213 and as Sadako's link will show you , they rock.  If you check around most retailers no longer stock the 9700 so you'll have to move quickly.

OR

Save until the New Year and get a 9800 Pro for £240.

If the limit is stuck at £150 then it's a toss-up between the 9800SE and the 9600XT.  The latter is generally slighly faster (only very slightly) at stock but is on 0.13micron technology which overclocks quite well, the former is good card, won;t overclock as wella s the 9600XT and has a chance of being turned into a real 9800 Pro courtesy of a BIOS flash.

Your choice really, go toss a coin.......

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Maddy on November 26, 2003, 09:55:22 PM
If you are going for a 9600Pro/9800SE class card the AIW9800SE is the obvious choise. The card has 256Bit memory which promise a performance equal to 9600XT and that is UNMODDED. Modded tha card will give you 9800 - 9800Pro performance. And if it wasnt enough you have the All-In-Wonder part as a bonus :D
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 26, 2003, 09:59:33 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Maddy@Nov 26 2003, 09:55 PM
If you are going for a 9600Pro/9800SE class card the AIW9800SE is the obvious choise. The card has 256Bit memory which promise a performance equal to 9600XT and that is UNMODDED. Modded tha card will give you 9800 - 9800Pro performance. And if it wasnt enough you have the All-In-Wonder part as a bonus :D
As previously explained - you have a 50/50 chance that the mod will work.  If the mod does not, then you'll be better off withthe faster 0.13micron process that is faster than a stock SE and will overclock better than a stock SE.

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: [CIGS]Strider on November 27, 2003, 08:23:21 AM
Didn't read all reply's but I got an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro and is serves me extremely well!! All games run excellent on it and it is not as expensive as the Radeon 9800 Pro. Good thing too is that ATI has excellent driver support by releasing almost a new driver per month! The Catalyst series drivers work very very good!!

My 2 cents  ;) .
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 27, 2003, 11:22:33 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall+Nov 24 2003, 08:38 PM-->
QUOTE (BlueBall @ Nov 24 2003, 08:38 PM)
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Nov 24 2003, 07:16 PM
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Maddy on November 27, 2003, 06:35:59 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf+Nov 26 2003, 09:59 PM-->
QUOTE (TeaLeaf @ Nov 26 2003, 09:59 PM)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 27, 2003, 07:21:09 PM
Thanks for the info everybody.

Maddy's review link sold me on the AIW9800se.

Order placed.  :D
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Gone_Away on November 27, 2003, 10:30:12 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Nov 24 2003, 07:40 AM
/me recommends ATI 9800 Pro

Maybe You, me and Smite should try to negotiate bulk purchase terms for a three card christmas order?  Anyone else interested in jumping on the bandwagon?

TL.
I would consider if the price was good and I had full details of the spec before hand.

NF  ;)
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 27, 2003, 11:19:49 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Maddy@Nov 27 2003, 06:35 PM
9600XT gives the AIW9800SE a battle but with the AIW tuner the 9800SE card is still the one to choose even if the mod doesn't work. :)

There is a difference between 9800SE and AIW9800SE

over and out
Apologies MAddy - I hadn't noticed the AIW bit.  But you still have to guess if the extra 4 pipelines will open up properly after the soft mod imo.

The site that supplied the softmod files has this research on the web page:
QuoteMy Radeon 9800SE softmodded to a 9800
 
Without artifacts.  50%
With artifacts.  33%
With artifacts but I could get rid of them.  5%
Does not even start into Windows when softmodded.  11%
 
votes: 1651
And there is absolutely zero difference between the pipelines on an SE and an AIW SE when comparing the same 256bit to 256 bit cards (or 128:128).

I return to my original point.  If the 9800SE is slower than the 9600XT (as shown by 5 of 6 tests in the review you linked to, and the 6th only gives the 9800SE the edge if you turn off AA/AF) at stock speeds, then what would you do?  You have a choice:
  • Buy a 9800SE and be slowest
  • Buy a 9600XT and be faster than a 9800SE
  • Buy a 9600XT and use the cool running 0.13micron process to overclock close to 9800Pro speeds with virtually guaranteed success
  • Buy a 9800SE and softmod it and overclock it wioth a 55% chance of running it at 9800XT speeds.
My 2 cents, I'm not sayinng one is better than the other, just that you have to be aware of the risks that both routes carry as they are different.

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: OldBloke on November 29, 2003, 08:36:51 PM
Card arrived today. Well pld Overclockers.  :D

Ran 3DMark03 on the Catalyst 3.9 COD Hotfix- v6.14.10.6404 driver:

Score: 3670

Added the softmod and ran the tests again

Score: 5371

One happy bunny. :thumbsup:
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: smite on November 29, 2003, 11:53:02 PM
Nice one oldie...


So TL come on what we doin?? Are we gonna buy the bulk if not let me know wats good between £250-300 and i may be buying in the next week or so (pointless me looking you are the guru) :D
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 30, 2003, 01:06:44 AM
I have come to the decision that I am probably going to wait for the 0.13 process to be rolled out on the 9800 series and then buy something.  So I'm sorry to say I will be out of the gfx card market until the new year I expect.  But I am anticipating great things from the 9800 when it is on the 0.13 process.  Smaller pathways, less voltage, less heat, more overclocking potential. :D

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 30, 2003, 01:07:18 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Nov 29 2003, 08:36 PM
Card arrived today. Well pld Overclockers.  :D

Ran 3DMark03 on the Catalyst 3.9 COD Hotfix- v6.14.10.6404 driver:

Score: 3670

Added the softmod and ran the tests again

Score: 5371

One happy bunny. :thumbsup:
Oldie - I'm delighted for you - that's one nice 9800 Pro you have there for £150 squid or so :D

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: smite on November 30, 2003, 01:10:09 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Nov 30 2003, 01:06 AM
I have come to the decision that I am probably going to wait for the 0.13 process to be rolled out on the 9800 series and then buy something.  So I'm sorry to say I will be out of the gfx card market until the new year I expect.  But I am anticipating great things from the 9800 when it is on the 0.13 process.  Smaller pathways, less voltage, less heat, more overclocking potential. :D

TL.
So what do u recommend the 9800 pro for £250? or oldies software hacked for £150?
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 30, 2003, 01:15:47 AM
I don;t like taking chances, so personally I'd spend the extra and *know* that it is a 9800 Pro.  With my luck I'd buy a 256bit 9800SE, apply the new bios and end up with a GeForce2 MX  :blink:

Smite, I haven't got a clue what you should do, but if I were buying a 9800SE I would get the same one OB bought (if not his one ;)).  If I were buying a 9800 Pro then I would get the Hercules 3D Prophet 9800 Pro because I like the blue fan light :)  Or the Sapphire 9800 Pro - both are quality cards and have great reputations for not cutting design corners.  Not much in it tbh.  

But would youy want to wait for the 0.13 process to roll out on the 9800?  It will go much faster.........

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: smite on November 30, 2003, 01:20:03 AM
mmmmm dont know TBH i currently have a GF4 4600 and dont really need a card i just kinda fancied the 9800, but the chances are that if i decide to wait i wont have the cash again for a while to buy it....
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 30, 2003, 08:33:20 AM
I'm in the same boat Smite, but I know I'll kick myself if I go for the 0.15 now.  Christmas has a habit of see (a) prices drop in large fashion just *after* christmas, and (B) new models launched in Q1.

TL.
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: smite on November 30, 2003, 09:05:24 AM
Starting to wonder wether it is worth getting the same as oldie /me ponders :eyebrow:

Actually im not really bothered about overclocking so i may be better off with the 9800 pro.......
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Maddy on November 30, 2003, 11:31:23 AM
Hehe nice to see that there is people thinking just like me. I took a peek in the wallet and found out that with christmas on the door there will be no cardpurchase for me this year :) Will have to wait until Jan or Feb. And as TL said 0.13 micron will be the obvious choise :)

Edit: gahh hate spelling misstakes
Title: It's finally arrived.
Post by: Doorman on November 30, 2003, 02:29:16 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Maddy@Nov 30 2003, 11:31 AM
Hehe, nice to see that there are people thinking just like me. I took a peek in the wallet and found that with christmas at the door there will be no card purchase for me this year :( I will have to wait until Jan or Feb. As TL said, 0.13 micron will be the obvious choice :)

Edit: gah! Hate spelling mistakes
There you go.
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