Bump for RGT.
This has become less of an issue as we reached phase two though:
leaving the post up.
Melee are having issues Maintaining the 8 yard , especially when the boss is moved, often pinned between each other tanks and ranged that have moved in too close.
Its causing more people to end up dotted by wind steps.
Right now there seems to be a choice of, hit the boss, or stay out of range, need to tighten up movement.
Edit:
I started watching the wind step cd and running to a safer spot when it times.
Edit:2
further things were discussed in raid, so this thread will so expand.
A few things that might be of note....
Some info on going into final phase - notably the slowing dps to make sure all healed up
HERE (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1222001-Blade-Lord-Ta-Yak-final-phase)
And here "tips and tricks" not had time to read through it but hopefully some useful stuff
HERE (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1221532-Blade-Lord-Tal-yak-Tips-and-Tricks)
A warlock portal was mentioned, while i immediatly snapped that it wouldn't be very helpful from the start to halfway due to potentially appearing inside a tornado.
would it be workable from halfway to the end, so at the very least a tank & healing team gets zipped to the boss so they can start casting instead of running?.
Quote from: Ammon;361328A warlock portal was mentioned, while i immediately snapped that it wouldn't be very helpful from the start to halfway due to potentially appearing inside a tornado.
would it be workable from halfway to the end, so at the very least a tank & healing team gets zipped to the boss so they can start casting instead of running?.
I really don't think it would be too useful to be honest, for one thing it can only port 5 players total, and that is after it has charged all 5 stacks, which takes 1m 15 secs, which means it would have to be placed whilst we are still doing the first wave and if it is slap bang in the middle of the room someone is bound to accidentally trigger it, also as I found out on Elegon on the walls that the gateway acts more as a dash than a teleport so I am betting if you were to pass through one as you were flying it would sweep you back.
I see your point, had a run in with a warlock gateway earlier when pugging firelands, one was cleverly placed under where a ragnaros add spawned.
It even swept me up in the middle of a killing spree.
From the first MMO thread linked above; I found this comment to be very helpful and we should implement:
QuoteMake sure everyone is near 100% hp before pushing him to phase, if you have to slow dps do so. You can use personal 1m CD's the second before he phases, so you take less damage. Once you reach the platform, stay put top everyone up, then move as a group so healing is easier when you are moving, if people starting sprinting/rocket boots and get there before everyone they will end up dying. Once you reach the platform with boss use aoe heal and raid walls. Btw when running, you can't attack so everyone can use CD's/absorb/Candies and one the platform use **** like AMZ/Devo/Tranq/Sprit Link totem don't waste then by overlapping as you need to do this twice.
DPS:Our dps does seem low for this fight and it will present us with a problem if we do not increase it. Our best try last night showed 258k rdps during an 8 minute try and the boss hit about 19%. WoL shows median 330k rdps with the slowest kills being 8mins - 8 mins 15sec (ie right up against and at the 8min hard enrage limit), so we need to push it more in P1 to keep ahead of the curve. Part of this will be getting all of the right buffs in the raid, but that last try had the crit buff too, so no excuses there.
Unseen Strike:This ability is relatively harder in 10 man as it hits for 25% more per person than it does in 25 man, but that's irrelevant. All it means is we need to make sure we handle it well and we're not at the moment.
In 10N it will hit for 3,000,000, so if we all share the damage then we get hit for a very manageable 300k each.
If 1 person misses and only 9 take the Strike we get hit for 333k each.
If 2 people miss and only 8 take the Strike we get hit for 375k each. <<<
we start losing people at this point as it's close to our buffed HPIf 3 people miss and only 7 take the Strike we get hit for 429k each.
You can easily see that we ALL need to get hit by this and we're not all getting hit all the time as the table linked below shows:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s197pt7bcfnopnl9/spell/122994/?enc=wipes&boss=63664
Reading the MMO thread it seems we need to get in front of the targeted player:
QuoteIt's easier to just have everyone to stack at the tanks, you don't have to waste time looking around to find the targeted player.
The cone of Unseen Strike will always go in the direction from Boss' position (before vanishing) to Targeted player's (when he reappear), so have your marked ones place themselves slightly in front of the tanks by ~1 step.
Still looking for additional info on this as it is just a single post.
Positioning:Personally I like have a relatively 'clean' side and then the current side we're working on with no hurricanes. However, I can see the sense in maybe grouping on tanks and using an 'all around' tactic now that we are better able to cope with the mechanics. This might reduce the run time for people to the group up spot and make us better able to handle & soak Unseen Strike.
Overwhelming Assault:We lost a tank or two when the MT had 2 stacks last night. This info from an mmo thread might help:
QuoteIf you're doing 10m and switching on 2 applications of the debuff, you can watch the timer on the first debuff application and when it gets to 25 seconds remaining you can pop a cooldown and survive pretty easily. What you have to watch out for though is if the boss is about to do an Unseen Strike then you should hold off on the cooldown until a second after coming out of the unseen strike.
Personal:I'll be using Halo Instead of Cascade for this on Tuesday night to help with healing load. I've discovered a new addon that makes my use of Halo much more reliable: HaloPro (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/halopro). Having played with it on a Raider's Training Dummy I can highly recommend it, in fact it is almost an essential addon for effective Halo use.
I'll add more to this post if I find more in what I am reading.
Let's get more input here please folks, I feel like I'm talking to myself sometimes and there's only 20 hours until the next raid!
Unseen Strike - if we can sort this out....decide positioning of the targeted person and the rest of he raid........but no dancing around. There is a timer for it and I think we can afford to get into position a lot sooner.
The reason we spread 8 yard debuff....sorry can't remember the name......some of the write ups recommend that people with his should not gather to take unseen strike.......and I suspect this is the reason for some of our deaths.....unseen strike damage plus a tick @ 80k is almost certain death.
Heal up to max before final phase......
Final phase - worth considering Druid casting symbiosis on a shammy to get spirit walkers grace......this means we can start out quickly with a SG'd tranquility on the move ...Sticking together !! Rest of the run being done by whatever healing we can get on he move ( shammy SG and chain heal,healing rain to run through and totems )
Quote from: Niel;361414Final phase - worth considering Druid casting symbiosis on a shammy to get spirit walkers grace......this means we can start out quickly with a SG'd tranquility on the move ...Sticking together !! Rest of the run being done by whatever healing we can get on he move ( shammy SG and chain heal,healing rain to run through and totems )
Agreed.
I'm still not convinced yet by the strategy we use on this boss which is moving frequently to avoid tornadoes.
As I stated earlier during last raid that we might solve one issue (Tornadoes) but we will bring more problems to this encounter (low DPS duo to moving a lot, random deaths and timer for berserk will be short in p2).
In my opinion dodging tornadoes is just what we need for this encounter.
Pulling the boss down stairs and start nuking in that area (which is huge area actually) might gives us the chance to kill this boss if and only if we managed to dodge tornadoes.
Here is a pic for the pulling position:
(http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/223701/%5BHF-2%5D-Map1-p2.gif)
Source:
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?80268-10N-Heart-of-Fear-Blade-Lord-Ta-Yak-Guide-By-Mysticknight (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?80268-10N-Heart-of-Fear-Blade-Lord-Ta-Yak-Guide-By-Mysticknight)
This video explains exactly what I need to say:
[video=youtube;pfxRVh_MmAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pfxRVh_MmAY[/video]
I know I might be getting ahead of myself but found this little snippet
QuoteIn phase 2 (tornado alley); you have to run through the tornado maze to the end of the hall. At about 11-12% hp, the raid team, minus the tanks, should jump into the slipstream (sides of the 'alley') and let it carry them all the way to the other end of the room. Let the tanks + dots push the boss to 10%, where he will jump across the room, landing right where the rest of the raid team is waiting. In this method, you can effectively only have to navigate tornado alley once - which seems the be the hardest part of this entire fight... especially if you don't have a druid on the team. Remember, no tanks are needed in phase 2, he does not melee - so if the tanks die, its not a problem. (sorry tanks)...
Not sure how much damage it causes but perhaps worth considering
Quote from: Niel;361414The reason we spread 8 yard debuff....sorry can't remember the name......some of the write ups recommend that people with his should not gather to take unseen strike.......and I suspect this is the reason for some of our deaths.....unseen strike damage plus a tick @ 80k is almost certain death.
Wind Step (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=123180) - averaged 47k net per tick across the final try (156k ticks in Heroic), 8 yard range
Unseen Strike
Happy to try the positioning in the Sweet Victory video. It should produce a bit more dps and a little less movement. I still can't see from the video exactly how they position things for Unseen Strike (ie in front or behind the Unseen Strike target). They seem to just clump up, perhaps KISS is what we need to do too and just group up and accept a little tornado damage if we get thrown into one.
We'll try to prepare a series of raid walls for Unseen Strike though, logs show them coming in every 55 seconds.
Travel Plans
I like the idea of sending the raid downwind before 10% with a good load of DOTs and a tank to finish the job. Do we have a gnome tank? :P
I mentioned to guru if we was partially misunderstanding Wind Step.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004693291
I found this.
I noticed neither me, guru nor either tank were hit by wind step at all when we had nobody at range , within range to spread the dot to us on landing.
So i had to look that up
It gives us some room to move and sidestep Tempest Slashes as they're fired at us.
also for the Gather marker, the idea imho is sound, but if we had two spots marked, that way if one is twistered, we just use the other, saves any "ahhh blergh *wipe*" due to knockback.
Melee Range
Agreed, happy for melee to ignore the Wind Step 8yd range. Zolena was also never targeted, so if we have Zolena in the raid it gives us an excuse to park her in melee to, Spinning Crane Kick et al and a nice stabilisation of healing when the rest of us move for Unseen Strike. This assumes 5 in ranged is sufficient -I don't think it would take too many tries to confirm if this works.
US & Tempest Slash Timers
The one that is really grinding my groin is the Tempest Slash that randomly jumps ahead of the Unseen Strike CD. We want to group up nice & early for Unseen Strike, but 3 or 4 tries last night got blindsided by an out of order Tempest. I now think we need to reverse an earlier adjustment we made in this fight: we're grouping up to make sure we share the US damage, but this is now causing us issues with random US/TS CDs switching on us and I think we are sufficiently aware of the fight now to allow us to NOT group up early:
Don't group up early, just move in to the group up spot from a sensible distance once the US target has been announced. This relies on people not screwing up with their distance - it's what you can cover in 3 seconds, no more. Personally I have been varying my distance throughout the fight depending on what is due. When US is on CD, I move further away to about 30 yards range to make sure that if Tempest targets me then I can step in front of the cyclone. When I need to use Halo I move in to 25yds, when US is about to come off CD I move in to closer to 20yds to make sure I can make the group up spot within the required 3 seconds. We should try this and it will avoid the random Tempest CD wipes.
Unseen Strike damage sharing
I'm much happier with the sharing of damage last night, there was very little variance in how many times people got hit which means that by and large we're sharing the soaking effectively. We also seemed to make it through with the Wind Step target NOT soaking unless they were also the US target. We should keep doing this and I'd like to thank Puja for this suggestion.
If we do not group up too early and wait for a US announcement before collapsing to the chosen positions then we do not need to have 2 marked spots.
I use Bigwigs audible countdown for Unseen Strike........if you need it as a gentle reminder that £&%$ is about to happen then i would recommend to install it ( I run Bigwigs and DBM at the same time and i also used to have DXE ....i know its a little odd to run multiple boss mods but there are features in some that are not in others and the timing of some events is bettter in one addon than another so i tend to use both and learn which one i prefer for a particular fight ....i've not yet found that one addon is best for all )
I use Vuhdo - by default Wind Step is not shown......i added it as a custom debuff and also make it recolour the player panels on my UI so it stands out a mile that people are debuffed with it rather than just have a debuff icon ( i set all critical debuffs to recolour player panels to a colour that i really notice for all boss fights that it matters for as i am crap at tracking icons )
Taking the Wind Step person out of the unseen strike was a big help......it means we can let them tick away and keep them at reasonable health without having to push them to Max ( unless they get US )......i was finding i was blowing a fair few greater heals on them to keep them to max when we were having them in for US all the time.
Wind Step - range finder audible alarm.......we had several occasions on the attempts i was in where we had 2 people take Wind Step........i think it is worth turning on an audible range alarm to really make people notice when they are <8 yards as it really is best to avoid double ( or worse ) debuffs.
I think we're on the verge on this one....just the fuzzy mechanics of the fight messing us about and losing us time......down next week.
Cheers
Niel
Quote from: Niel;361523I use Vuhdo - by default Wind Step is not shown......i added it as a custom debuff and also make it recolour the player panels on my UI so it stands out a mile that people are debuffed with it rather than just have a debuff icon ( i set all critical debuffs to recolour player panels to a colour that i really notice for all boss fights that it matters for as i am crap at tracking icons )
For info, the current GridStatusRaidDebuffs package for Grid has this in by default.
Came across this little gem:
QuoteSo, a small hint on this fight.
In phase 2 (tornado alley); you have to run through the tornado maze to the end of the hall. At about 11-12% hp, the raid team, minus the tanks, should jump into the slipstream (sides of the 'alley') and let it carry them all the way to the other end of the room. Let the tanks + dots push the boss to 10%, where he will jump across the room, landing right where the rest of the raid team is waiting. In this method, you can effectively only have to navigate tornado alley once - which seems the be the hardest part of this entire fight... especially if you don't have a druid on the team. Remember, no tanks are needed in phase 2, he does not melee - so if the tanks die, its not a problem. (sorry tanks)...
It's so bleeding obvious I can't believe we haven't thought of it ourselves!
Quote from: TeaLeaf;363118Came across this little gem:
It's so bleeding obvious I can't believe we haven't thought of it ourselves!
I thought you guys did that already :P
We already go early, but we don't use the slipstream to the side of the room - that's the key point. Tbh, I thought there was a reason we did not go there (?damage), but if it is simply the slipstream then it's like a free taxi.
Yeah I Thot that's way we did it? I've never jumped into a typhoon to go
Back - always used the side streams.
Yeah I always go in the slipstream too! I thought everyone did, mind you it's a bit hard to look around see where folk are at that point!
Well, I know I am not alone as I'm surrounded by people running back in the middle and following vortices and dodging the ones catching them from behind. Tbh, I have never seen people flying back on the side and totally out of the 3 channels. Perhaps I am just blind *and* dumb then :roflmao:
Not saying you are blind or dumb - just presumed that's what ppl were doing. Tbh not stopping and waiting to see if ppl are doing same but it's like having stampeding roar it's so much quicker. When I posted a quote from a forum am sure it said this about running down side.
Edit: just had a look at my precious post in this thread and I did mention it.
Nah, *I* was saying that I was blind & dumb for not noticing if others are doing it.
It's all becoming clear now.....i set out at the same time as others........by the time i get to the other end others are already there that i did not see go past me.......( Homer Simpson voice ) ...Doh !!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been doing abit of both. The slipstream on the side also change direction on 10%, so when Im leaving late (due to healing) I usually have to go through middle the last 50%
I am sure we will have this guy next time and would have done last night if we hadn't lost people. I have been looking for tips for running the 1st part of P2 (tornado phase) and it would seem that for those that get caught you should avoid running through the middle and stick to where the outer tornadoes travel and just step outside into the slipstream if a tornado is coming your way. The slipstream does not give extra damage and simply stops forward progress (although you need to keep running forward to avoid being pushed backwards). This will no doubt be slower but better to have slower, alive peeps than dead ones.
our best tries were 9% and 10%, and in them the boss enraged.
am not sure if his buff was stacking alot but i noticed that some phase2 raid damage taken was very huge to handle.
phase2 running healing of Penny and riggy was awesome, but i believe we need to focus on reaching the other side asap and not get cought in the tornados.
am sure he will be one shotted on next try just like his big brother. just put diamond mark on me :flirty:
I wasnt in there but from the things being said on ts there is only couple things i can say....
Movement....I know its a new fight so takes abit of time getting used to it but its the same names that kept being called....you know who you are please dont worry about dps and such....just move. Your better off alive than dead.
Also we need to keep ts quite clear. At points it was getting frantic and frustration was quite evident. This doesnt help. It makes people lose concentration etc. So can we keep it to a minimum, some things shouldnt be called like when you need to grp up, this is spoon feeding and it wont continue. Also if you are dead please try and refrain from sayin stuff like "30 secs till enrage" its again panics people and generally near the end of the boss fight we are calling our raid cooldowns and when you have 1 or 2 people talking on top it gets very confusing. At 1 point we had 7 people calling all different things be it move calling a CD calling an ability, enrage timer....It was making my head explode listening to it and i wasnt even in there :P
Grping up....again people were slow on this so the damage is shared to fewer people - means more healing.
Also on this when we need to grp up there was talk of facing the right way etc etc, spoke with hal and whytee last night and it doent matter which way you face....you just need to be grped up very tight on the person who is marked.
The tornado's can be a pain but its just getting used to it :) All this movement makes me not want to do this fight lol as i can openly say im 1 of the worst movers in the grp :P
the boss unseen strike hits in cone for what infront of him, if every stacks at his target (right on top of each other) then i agree with you it wont matter, but 99.99% of the unseen strikes made we had everyone very close to the target but not on him and couple of wipes were because the boss coned the target and 2-3 others while the rest didnt get touched by it although they were near it.
so facing somehow is important unless as you said to move faster and group up better,
dont worry about moving part its very easy and at the end ill just life grip you :flirty:
Re the ongoing damage, this is from his stacks of intensify which increase the nature damage he does in P2 to the whole raid so we need to get him into P2 as fast as possible to have as few stacks as possible :)
We've not found facing it made any difference at all. It can seem a little buggy, but it basically comes down to grouping up really tightly - when you do this it seems to work reliably.
Gonna try riggy's advice on the next time we meet this boss.
Going in the slipstreap, because i find it really hard avoiding tornado's all the time :s
(I cant strafe)
just to clarify Odds, you can't run up in the slipstream but you can duck out and back in which some may find easier than weaving in between all lanes. I am not the best at avoiding things but I'm sure with practice we will get there :)
Practice makes perfect :)
This is an evil fight how does our dps compare to rgt ?
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If you looked at world of logs you could have known :P
RGW:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3gwhkjjynbdy9y2t/sum/damageDone/ (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3gwhkjjynbdy9y2t/sum/damageDone/)
RGT:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7wl2jmq2girbut7p/sum/damageDone/?s=1503&e=1884 (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7wl2jmq2girbut7p/sum/damageDone/?s=1503&e=1884)
I take ages to extrapolate information but it looks like we are 100k lower
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Quote from: Sithvid;366234I take ages to extrapolate information but it looks like we are 100k lower
Seriously, practice makes perfect and everybody is capable of it if they regularly use their own logs. It's a skill acquired over time, not something that Hubbah was born with!
Quote from: TeaLeaf;366237It's a skill acquired over time, not something that Hubbah was born with!
:lmfao:
Quote from: TeaLeafI take ages to extrapolate information but it looks like we are 100k lower
Our first tries looked alot like this. A lil more dps from everyone and you will be ok. This comes as TL says, with practice.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3gwhkjjynbdy9y2t/sum/damageDone/?s=1624&e=1931
my opinion is: the DPS is not a problem .. the P2 YES.
if we can get to the other side of tornados at least in 8 ...we could kill him, but usually we arrive in 3/4 (2 tanks 1/2 dps or healer) :sad:
last run I tried to use the yaril's teleport but, if during the flight, you go through a tornado, you get sucked so we cant use this way.......
mages have good resistance using the two barriers (if have), and using blink whenever possible...
is there a way to reduce the damage suffered during the run?
decrease the time in P1, reduces damage in P2?
Quote from: hermioneg;366283is there a way to reduce the damage suffered during the run?
decrease the time in P1, reduces damage in P2?
The boss gains a stack of a buff called Intensify every 60 seconds in phase 1. The more dps you do, the less time you spend in phase 1. The less damage you take in phase 2.
In phase 2, he gains one stack of this every 10 seconds, so AoE heals and raidwalls are necessary for keeping the raid up.
When boss is getting close to 20% make sure everybody is at full health before entering phase 2.
You get teleported to the end -> Healing Tide Totem -> druid run speed for as many as possible.
Make sure everybody use their defensive CD's when running to the boss. You HAVE to use these. Everything helps.
If you have a disco, make him shield everyone.
When you get to the other end -> Tranq + Spirit link?
When boss is at 11%-10.5%.. everybody except tanks leaves by using the slipstream on right or left side for extra speed. Wait for the boss at the end.
Dots+tanks will get the boss to 10%. Tanks then have to run the boring way down to the boss by avoiding the tornadoes.
Healers should be close to full mana before entering phase 2. If possible, do mana regen CD's before phase 2 starts.
Quote from: Switchback;365768Movement....I know its a new fight so takes abit of time getting used to it but its the same names that kept being called....you know who you are please dont worry about dps and such....just move. Your better off alive than dead.
Also we need to keep ts quite clear. At points it was getting frantic and frustration was quite evident. This doesnt help. It makes people lose concentration etc. So can we keep it to a minimum, some things shouldnt be called like when you need to grp up, this is spoon feeding and it wont continue. Also if you are dead please try and refrain from sayin stuff like "30 secs till enrage" its again panics people and generally near the end of the boss fight we are calling our raid cooldowns and when you have 1 or 2 people talking on top it gets very confusing. At 1 point we had 7 people calling all different things be it move calling a CD calling an ability, enrage timer....It was making my head explode listening to it and i wasnt even in there :P
Grping up....again people were slow on this so the damage is shared to fewer people - means more healing.
Also on this when we need to grp up there was talk of facing the right way etc etc, spoke with hal and whytee last night and it doent matter which way you face....you just need to be grped up very tight on the person who is marked.
The tornado's can be a pain but its just getting used to it :) All this movement makes me not want to do this fight lol as i can openly say im 1 of the worst movers in the grp :P
Gotta sign off on this. someone said quote "im not going over to the other side of the boss cause someone is always moving into me". Instead of saying that, tell the person in question to get the F**K away, as he shouldnt be there anyway.
Not mentioning names, u know who u are.
Furthermore about TS, if ure task requires you to talk or announce things, as tank taunts for instance, please talk in ts. But if u havenjt been asked to call anything, and ure role doesnt require u to talk, be quiet and focus on the task ure doing,
be that DPS,Heals or Tanking. We have way too many calling out things and it disturbs focus. If u have questions, or want to make a remark, save it till after weve died or kill the boss at hand.
Slow reactions is not a luxury any of us can afford, and getting to the marker as soon as ure picked for unseen strike is an absolute must. Dont finish ure cast, ure shot, ure heal, no nothing, get moving ASAP! It might also help to position ureself towards the marker, so u can strafe or run right over to it
I agree with the comms chat I know it confused me when we were moving then not moving then were moving.
I know my positioning sucked after I got my battle res this is my second raid try on this boss I know for some its prob try 4 but I will catch up promise
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So we need to max our dps in P1, and survive on P2 runs
tips for mages after second run (boss at 10%) use iceblock while w8ing boss
it help the healer and avoid dmg