Dead Men Walking

Bump for RGT.

I noticed some effects acted to our detriment during the mind control phase.

My killing spree annihilating someone.
Zolena's zen meditation making it rock hard to break the mc.
Guru's Fear :)

I wonder if we should burn these abilities early on during that platform to ensure they don't make life more difficult. since they should be back when we need them later in the event.

^
^

Your post Jim should be @ Imperial Vizier Zor'lok topic :P

Anyways, regarding my fear: I'll be using http://www.wowhead.com/spell=64312 (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=64312) to ensure that no one will move out of the group.

Did a quick trawl through the logs this morning whilst the server was down for maintenance.

We're currently using the 1 tank, 3 healer approach but this approach places stress on the healers in Phase 2 where lower dps means we will have more Force and Verve.   An alternative approach would be to 1 tank, 2 heal this fight which puts the stress on dps to ensure we only get 2 Force & Verve during the platform phases and then to minimise the Force & Verve in the final phase.   Overall, I think so long as we get better control of ourselves and Force and Verve in general then I think we should continue with 1 tank, 3 healers for the moment.

Force and Verve, Attenuation and Convert use
To explore this more in the logs, go to a try and then to the Log Browser, click Paste and copy this string to your clipboard, paste it into the 'Enter Query Set' pop up window and click OK.
[{"spellNames": ["Force and Verve"], "eventTypes": [6]}, {"spellNames": ["Attenuation"], "eventTypes": [6]}, {"spellNames": ["Convert"], "eventTypes": [6]}]Then click Run.
You should now see the timing of all of these spells casts for that try.

Force and Verve:  
From a DPS perspective we're pushing this sufficiently well to only have 2 Force and Verve in P1.   The P1 F&V are almost always 43 seconds apart (1 try had a 34 sec gap).

In P2 the gap between F&V is more variable, but we saw gaps of 43, 47, 48, 49, 55, 71 and 72 seconds, but the typical gap was 47 seconds.   This means we should not need to plan for more than 4 F&V in P2 if we're doing things right.

We're currently using Healing Tide, Healing Tide in P1.  
In most cases, HT will be up again in P2, so we should run HT, HT, Zen Med.   We can use a combo of Ascendance, Tranqs, RCs, Banners and other CDs on F&V 4 and then use any remaining on top of the initial 3 CDs as required (from F&V 5 we'd have the original CD rotation up again anyway).

Attenuation: - MAJOR IMPROVEMENT NEEDED
This is a major problem to us at the moment and it is one that is entirely our own fault.   Do NOT get caught by the sonic rings!  We're seeing 4-6 Attenuation in P1 depending on how good our dps is on that try.  We need to try to push for as few of these as possible given that we like to die in them.  

Hit by Sonic Ring:
[/table]
Sonic Ring Deaths per Try: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dsf04nzezst2ih0s/xe/?enc=wipes&boss=66791&x=spell%3D%22Sonic+Ring%22+%0D%0Aand%0D%0Aoverkill%3E0

ALL of us, without exception, need to improve on these numbers.  When we get hit by Sonic Ring (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=122336) we get damage of 138,750 AND we do the same damage to anyone within 6 yards of us, so stay spread out in a circle around the boss before Attenuation is cast!  There's a total of 39 million damage in the logs that is avoidable!

NOTE: We know that in P2 that there is a high likelihood of an Attenuation immediately after an F&V, so please spread fast and close distance to boss (but don't be too close as you have no gaps between the sonic rings!)

Convert:
We had some issues here, particularly with Zolena using her Zen Meditation buff when MC'd.   That's entirely my fault as I should have realised it sooner and remembered I can dispel her.    So, anyone with an offensive dispel can remove her 90% damage reduction self-buff.  

Also, things like Life Cocoon (a damage shield ability) are spell-stealable too, so it's worth us trying to steal/dispel that sort of stuff when people are MC'd.  

Guru's glyph should help with fear bombs (nice suggestion :)).

We should ALL aim to blow dangerous CDs like fear or other key abilities before the Convert is cast to ensure they are on CD if the player is MC'd.  For example, I should try to ensure my Fear is on CD for each Covert cast.

Phase 2:
From the query set included at the top of this post we can see that the general rotation of abilities in P2 is:
(A=Attenuation, F=Force & Verve, C=Convert)

AAFAACAAFAAC etc.  We did twice have an AACF, but never an FC.  

P2 seems to always start with AA;
then C or F
then possible F if previous was C
then AA again (rinse & repeat)

We should be able to plan and work out way through this once we stop dying to Sonic Rings and when I manage to find my dispel button!

Looking good for more boss progression though in this week's raiding!  :thumbsup:

eep I didn't think I got hit that many times by it :S oh well larger health pool for the win I guess :P (will do better next time, promise) During the last few tries last night I did try and taunt the convert people in so they were hitting me instead of other people in the raid and to me it seemed liked it help a bit but I'm not 100% sure perhaps the healers can answer that better then me :P anyway this is a kill people and should go down next time we go for it!

I was aiming to burn killing spree on cooldown during the MC phase, but that comes with its own dangers.
Notably if the boss decides to focus on me, i'm inside it which makes it near impossible for a tank to intercept the beam.

With reguard to my Attenuation death, that was entirely my own fault, again with killing spree and timing it just as Attenuation started, the result was an instagib as every single starting ring appeared inside my rogue, after that incident I was a lot more careful when that ability was set off.
I was burning it deliberatly between pops as opposed to the more normal 3 bandits guiles.

A few avoidable cock-ups from me on Attenuation....apologies. Found the right distance and ok now ( quite close in where the rings spawn is great.....too far out and you get "bounced" extra ones that appear ).

I did have a problem with Attenuation after a F&V.....I was in the melee group right under the bosses feet and with the attenuation following a heavy healing patch I found I stupidly got clipped by trying to heal people a little more than I should. Group change solved that.

Healing CD's for final phase F&V.....we need to look at this in detail ......I think we have to be careful not to die but retain enough and not blow too many per go to survive .......group makeup dependant and will need to be sorted each raid.

QuoteGuru   4213703   35   1

I died because I was distracted by Niel's death! blame him not me :doh:

Quote from: Guru;361167I died because I was distracted by Niel's death! blame him not me :doh:

Lol. Thats what I did aswell... atleast one of those!

[21:21:20.066] Sonic Ring Sonic Ring Zolena 79780 (O: 32716)
[21:21:20.066] Sonic Ring Sonic Ring Puja 67549 (O: 52119)
[21:21:24.912] Sonic Ring Sonic Ring Slush 116326 (O: 4912)

At the other 36 hits I was probably also distracted by something. :-)

Convert is my concern:
I think your post is interesting and full of truth, TL... but on the later tries we cant exactly see what went wrong because we had Convert at the same time as we had one of the other abilities up. The key is to break that charm as soon as possible.
If not:
-Convert may break when we have rings up.
-Convert may break after F&V also happened (try 9 or 11?)

If we get Convert under control sooner, there is less healing/dispelling and panic everywhere.

From battle.net:
Convert: "Charms a target to fight on the side of Imperial Vizier Zor'lok. Charmed targets inflict 100% more damage and have their maximum health increased 100%. Reducing a charmed target to 50% health frees them from the charm."

Health doubled = approx 700k on charmed person. Means we need to get in approx 350k of damage asap.

If we get convert on a person, is there any /target macro for targeting enemys that are not Imperial Vizier Zor'lok? Please post if you know of any.
Are we getting enough damage done to the ones who are Charmed?
You can check yourselves from the dropdownlist under "Source" here:
  http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dsf04nzezst2ih0s/analyze/dd/target/?source=1&enc=wipes&boss=66791
(as you can see from the numbers in this example, TL did 5.7mill dmg to charmed persons)

Quote from: Slush;361171is there any /target macro for targeting enemys that are not Imperial Vizier Zor'lok? Please post if you know of any.

TAB works like a charm.

Read and understood, now it's practice time.  :boxing:

/Mats

Let's have some fun tonight with smashing some bug heads ;D

Read, viewed video and I'm ready to go!!!

Good job today people, 5% in 14 tries, not too shabby. Theres a few things we need to work on.
First of all, Attenuation. We have to get better at dodging those, theres no way around it.
Secondly, dps need to swap to the MCD people immediatly and burn em down.

I suggest that the people that are struggling do the lfr version of that and try to dodge the rings as best u can,
find a way that works for you.

/sharp

First, let me say nice work guys on the tries.

secondly,
Platform 1:
we usually having 1-2 circles before the boss move to the second platform. I am usually running my divine hymn on first circle so if you riggy can run your tranq at second it will help alot (dont worry the cooldown will be off before/ at third platform or at least thats what was happening to me) and same rule applies for mana regen abilities. for splitting people in the circles I think we managed to do that perfectly in the last 10 tries.

Platform 2:
Stacking up on amber is very good for inhale thingi, but very bad for attenuation phase because if ONE got hit the orb will split and makes it nearly impossible to dodge for the people behind him. so if you can, once you see the cast time for attenuation on boss run away fast so you can make it easier for you and the rest to dodge those orbs.
if we managed to do this perfectly I doubt there will be any heals during attenuation ability. so remember, dodge, dodge, dodge:boxing:
I had the boss on set focus the entire time, I was wondering how did you guys know about which direction to go then i noticed that DBM wasnt giving me any warnings at all:ranting2: i think its broken, but in the end its very easy to tell by just looking at the boss's buggy face:eyebrow:.

platform 3:
big thanks to amber for reminding us about using our CCs before converter thingi.
I think as sharpy stated we need to switch to them fast and burn them is our issue here.:boxing:

Platform 4:
sames issues appearing here. :g:

General note: guys remember this is NOT LFR - HOF, we ALL know that your trying your best not to die we are not blaming you for anything, if you died just say your name and dead to help us, other then that how did you die or managed to escape please share it after the kill/ wipe so we learn from it.

again, thanks alot guys for the effort.:)

Hope these could help.

Quote from: Clare;365334I was wondering how did you guys know about which direction to go then i noticed that DBM wasnt giving me any warnings at all:ranting2: i think its broken, but in the end its very easy to tell by just looking at the boss's buggy face:eyebrow:.

DBM gives you both a big ARROW and also a TEXT 'left' or 'right'.   It has done this for as long as I can remember, so your version of DBM might need updating/reinstalling or you might need to check that you have not accidentally disabled the option in DBM.  

Within DBM
Load HoF, select Imp Viz Zor'lok, scroll all the way to the very bottom and make sure that you tick the option:
'Show DBM Arrow during Attenuation to indicate which direction to move'

Even without DBM it is still easy enough to see which way to run if your camera view is 'bird's eye'.   This enables you to avoid pretty much everything.

List of who got hit & how many times:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-387e5fs3k5umzkvw/spell/122336/?enc=wipes&boss=66791

This is a seriously massive amount of avoidable damage being taken.   Take alts into HoF LFR and practice this boss.   It is a simple intermittent strafe.  
-practice strafing around a fountain in Stormwind or some other fixed object
-get used to bird's eye view (I elevate mine even higher for this section of the fight as it makes it so much easier)
-stand about 10-12yds from the boss (closer makes it difficult to react quickly, further away makes it difficult to keep up with the 'spiral')
-stand further away than about 12 yds and you are standing in the zone where you start to have to avoid both the normal rings and the 'splits' and 'bounces'.  Within 12yds you seem to avoid these completely.

How to strafe in a circle:
Personally, I press the strafe key (Q or E) and simultaneously press right-click on my mouse whilst moving my mouse to retain my camera view pointing a the boss).  You adjust the speed you are turning by the speed with which you move your mouse - i.e. moving your mouse faster means a tighter radius oif turn and you turn faster, slower mouse movement means slower turning.  I'm sure there are other ways of doing it, but this is what I find effective.

As a comparison, this was RGT's last kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7wl2jmq2girbut7p/spell/122336/
17 hits in total and other than the tank, very little damage taken by anyone.   That's the your goal for Normal mode.  Out of interest, even these figures figures would be a wipe in Heroic! :P


I'd also recommend not stacking up for this phase as there's not really any reason do so.  Tanks are perfectly able to sidestep/turn to interrupt beams and being more spread out makes it much easier to see your own toon and avoid sonic rings.  When you're in a pack then there is often confusion as to which toon is yours and people make mistakes.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;365335-get used to bird's eye view (I elevate mine even higher for this section of the fight as it makes it so much easier)

Probably the best tip in Teaells massive tiptextwall.
This is what I do aswell, as soon as Whytee yells "Attenuation, Left" or "Attenuation, Right". Look at the fight from above. Know where your character is. And strafe like a boss.
You dont need to dmg the boss while doing this at start. Just practice.

Attenuation is the biggest problem when it's there although I imagine the damage from the logs also includes when we stood there and took it in the face to wipe faster having lost two people I imagine?  We lost some to attenuation in the final phase (myself included) due to being feared but as Clare said, amber calling to get rid of that before MC phase did help.

I think looking at the fight from above will be the best was and I will remember to turn off auto adjust so I keep the view from above next time :P

Just to add a note in here: my Fear does not have a cooldown, so when I'm MC'd that's going to be a possibility.. I think Attenuation is something that needs to be worked on definitely, but once we get the hang of that I'd say he's definitely dead.