Dead Men Walking

I agree with the fact that excessive wall spamming like occured in Aztec on the double doors should not be on TCS.
That was completely unnessary, waste of ammo and plain old no reason for it.

I think that unless you have reason to fire at the wall, believeing an enemy hiding there, you should limit yourself to short burst and even control thoose.

I think it's for instance okay to shoot a couple of rounds into the "blocks" on the T side of the bridge. I mean if the T just ran behind them for protection, it's natural to shoot a couple of rounds in hope of catching them there.
Thats just like shooting somebody dodging behind a crate you can shoot through :D

However spamming a door, wall ect, to PREVENT the enemy from appearing and thus not shooting within reason for hitting an enemy is wrong.
Keeping a door under fire because your know it's a entry point is not right... fire short burst once in a while is okay, but dont spam with it :D

Well, if you're a T, just hang back until they are out of ammo and rush em :)

Anyway, if you 'know' that someone is there, then a few well placed shots is ok (I use headphones and can track people through walls quite well) but if you're just spamming because someone might be there then that's a no no.

QuoteOriginally posted by Swoop@Dec 3 2003, 01:36 PM
However spamming a door, wall ect, to PREVENT the enemy from appearing and thus not shooting within reason for hitting an enemy is wrong.
Keeping a door under fire because your know it's a entry point is not right...

Isn't that 'covering fire'? As in 'Cover me!'

Then CT's shouldn't spam nade the doors either in the hope that they maybe about to come through? Same thing isn't it?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rad_Man@Dec 3 2003, 03:59 PM
Then CT's shouldn't spam nade the doors either in the hope that they maybe about to come through? Same thing isn't it?

Nope. You only have one HE. The spamming that took place last night was as described above - excessive and every round.

If you want to waste your only HE on a door be my guest. :)

I was the Admin that posted the warning about excessive wall-spamming last night.  The reason the message got posted was because I followed, first-person, several players (and one in particular) to see what was going on.  The thing that really got me was a particular CT running around from place to place (eg double doors to bridge room to water to double doors to bridge room and back again) all in the same round.  
Every time he got somewhere new he fired repeatedly and randomly through walls or doors using a high power rifle.  :spam:  
He could not have heard anyone due to the huge noise he was causing.  
His team mates could not have heard anyone because of the noise he was creating.
He then rushed back to another spot to see if he could get a kill elsewhere.

It was sad to see, but it was plain vanilla frag-whore behaviour.  :thumbsdown:
Hence my initial on-screen and generic warning for CTs to stop the excessive wall spam. :mellow:
Hence my second on-screen and generic warning when my first warning was ignored. :huh:
Hence my warning to the player concerned (using their name in the message) when my first two warnings were ignored. :o
Hence my fourth and final warning which included both the player name and a swear word asking for him to 'quit....'  :blink:

He was lucky he stopped.

My fifth warning was going to be a polite 'adios' :byesad:
Followed by a kick from the server.    

:angry:  :rant:   :yell:  

I would reiterate that I have nothing against the legitimate use of shooting through walls or doors, or firing into well known hidy holes, but last nights exuberance was excessive.

Let's keep it TCS from here on, eh?

TL.

If they really were spamming it then that wouldn't have been good. Running around like an idiot is something you can do but just do it outside in RealLife and not on a teambased game where by making lots of sounds you also get your team down.

Sorry that I didn't get what it was about but all the answers here made it clear.

QuoteOriginally posted by DuVeL@Dec 3 2003, 05:34 PM
Running around like an idiot is something you can do but just do it outside in RealLife and not on a teambased game where by making lots of sounds you also get your team down.

Apart form the noise, running around is not exactly cinducive to the objective either.  How on earth would you know where your team mates are and what they are covering?

TL.

While I obviously agree with everything postsed so far I'd add that we should make a distinction between spamming and supressing fire.

In a real world situation laying down vast amounts of fire on a specific point is a recognised tactical action. So ironically and assuming you have the ammo wall spamming is a legit practice in a real world situation. (Just watch some of the more intense footage from the recent war in Iraq).

However in TCS it's clearly got no place. But I'd argue that in certain situations supression fire is an acceptable idea.

As an example when running across the bridge on Aztec it's not uncommon for a player to stay back and pepper the far bridge room with fire to keep the CT's back and to allow his team mates to get through what can be a killing zone.

Likewise running up the long passage on Italy is better if one player holds back and paints the window in the T house as his mates run undeneath his fire up the passage.

And I'm sure there are several others. It easy to make a destinction between the two so I doubt the is going to be any confusion on the servers, but it's worth noting that there is another acceptable reason for firing at a place rather than at a person.

 :)

Nicely put Smilo i agree with your comments completely.......

But said member was last night being a spam whore and frag monkey.

Well someone has to do it now i've gone to play Star wars.  :D

Hiya guys, I was on the server in question last night and pretty much agree with all the above. In a sense, I would put things more simply...CS is a game involving team/solo skill to get the most enjoyment. I don't get any pleasure from "accidentally" killing an enemy whilst shooting at someone else and have been known to apologise for it. After all, that is no demonstration of gaming ability, just a bit of luck. With that in mind, killing through a wall or door because you have had an indication that an enemy is there seems OK, but to reinforce the above, madly spamming in the hope if getting a kill is just random frag hunting, which is not TCS. For what its worth, the player concerned has lessened my enjoyment of the game the past couple of nights, and I know I'm not alone in saying that. He may be using genuine skill, but when his team has a 1 to 3 dissadvantage and still wins, that is not fun gaming, which is why we are all here.
As the new boy here, I hope I haven't offended anybody and TCS is the best thing I've seen in CS for 3 years, but I just thought I'd have my say.
                          Pete

I doubt you've offended anybody m8. My view is that as long as people are polite and making a point then they should say what they believe. If I have the opposite view then so be it but everyone is entiltled to their view.

PS I don't disagree with your post ;)

I actually remembering asking the person in question (cant remember who anymore though... damn beer loose brain cells) to stop spamming, mostly because i couldnt hear anything but his AK :(

Think my exact words where something like "dude stop wasting your ammo".

Wheni play TCS, i love that i can for once walk, and get this really sneaky game going on, where tension builds up as nobody is making any noise.  :D :D :D

And then you go and ruin it by shooting me in the back  :blink:  :huh:  :o

Bumped, don't spam the doors in aztec, that counts both ways, CT and T. This evening it was really bad.

:( wot he said

On one ocassion i saw u through the doors and so shot at you know were you would run so shot that way through the doors... it aint wall spamming if you know they are 100% there.

A few shots anyone will get away with.  It's the excessive bit that we're talking about.

TL.

It was also happening a lot a lot on Rio last night....

QuoteOriginally posted by DarkAngel@Jan 10 2004, 02:33 AM
On one ocassion i saw u through the doors and so shot at you know were you would run so shot that way through the doors... it aint wall spamming if you know they are 100% there.

That I know but I even saw one shooting with a shotgun shooting the doors repetingly. Also when from T or CT side you couldn't see anyone they kept shooting. As CT I checked the bridge because fellow CT's were shooting but I stood there for a while, I didn't see any1 but they kept shooting  :(

So basically it seems to boil down to someone laying covering fire on a position i.e. house window in Italy, to allow teammates to get into position is fine. Spotting or indeed hearing an enemy on the other side of, say again the doors on Aztec, and letting one or two controlled bursts at said position is fine, but trying to carve a piece of fine furniture out of the doors with your carbine/ak is not. If that’s the case it seems fairly simple to understand and easy to follow, if I’m wrong feel free to correct me most people do.  

I personally think the biggest problem with door/wall spamming has got to be the distraction it causes to your team. Say on Aztec you have CT’s covering the bridge site, the double doors and people covering the water. Whenever you hear gunfire you immediately think that’s where the action is and wait for a call for backup. Now with shot bursts or the odd round fired that’s fine situation over you stay where you are, but if you hear constant fire of clip after clip you think it’s something more and if there is no call people may end up going to see if the situation requires backup leaving part of the map weakly defended if at all, which doesn’t help the team.

It could be suggested that unless it’s part of the plan, i.e. covering fire, only shoot what you can see (on the condition what you see isn’t on your team :rolleyes: )

QuoteOriginally posted by Signal@Jan 10 2004, 02:27 PM
So basically it seems to boil down to someone laying covering fire on a position i.e. house window in Italy, to allow teammates to get into position is fine. Spotting or indeed hearing an enemy on the other side of, say again the doors on Aztec, and letting one or two controlled bursts at said position is fine, but trying to carve a piece of fine furniture out of the doors with your carbine/ak is not. If that’s the case it seems fairly simple to understand and easy to follow, if I’m wrong feel free to correct me most people do.

No you are correct well put.

May i suggest that in the menu when you join the servers saying hello and welcome that a few guidlines could be writen down ie.

Welcome to the Meathook

1. No wallspamming
2.etc?

QuoteOriginally posted by DarkAngel@Jan 10 2004, 07:30 PM
May i suggest that in the menu when you join the servers saying hello and welcome that a few guidlines could be writen down ie.

Welcome to the Meathook

1. No wallspamming
2.etc?

No.

TeaLeaf and I have spent hours 'writing things down'.

Read it. Remember it. Apply it.

If you need to remind others then do so.

It's not just a 'Yes' or 'No' answer to wall spamming, you said basically the same yourself.