Dead Men Walking

dMw Chit Chat => The Beer Bar => Seriously though ... => Topic started by: TheDvEight on December 09, 2012, 05:38:49 PM

Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: TheDvEight on December 09, 2012, 05:38:49 PM
http://www.classichitsandoldies.com/v2/2012/12/08/john-lennon-died-32-years-ago-today/
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: faust82 on December 11, 2012, 08:36:04 PM
To be brutally honest, Chapman did the world (Minus John Lennon and his loved ones) a favour. I just wish someone had done the same for Elvis too. To paraphrase the great Leary, wouldn't it be nice to remember the thin Elvis Presley, maybe in that gold lamé suit? Not the fat die-on-the-throne Elvis.
Chapman cut Lennon down just as he had passed his prime. It was going to be all downhill from there. Now we can remember some good songs and some questionable personal choices, but we're spared fat Lennon, drug zombie Lennon or kiddiefiddler Lennon (or whatever the other rockers from the era ended up as).
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: Lameduck on December 11, 2012, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: faust82;363158To be brutally honest, Chapman did the world (Minus John Lennon and his loved ones) a favour. I just wish someone had done the same for Elvis too. To paraphrase the great Leary, wouldn't it be nice to remember the thin Elvis Presley, maybe in that gold lamé suit? Not the fat die-on-the-throne Elvis.
Chapman cut Lennon down just as he had passed his prime. It was going to be all downhill from there. Now we can remember some good songs and some questionable personal choices, but we're spared fat Lennon, drug zombie Lennon or kiddiefiddler Lennon (or whatever the other rockers from the era ended up as).

There's something wrong with your head mate.:wacko:
Since when has murder been a good thing to do?
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: Blunt on December 11, 2012, 10:49:04 PM
I have to disagree Faust.
There was much more and better to come IMHO.
And yeah, LD, when has murder been a good thing?
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: faust82 on December 12, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
I'm not saying murder is right, but some murders have more favourable outcomes than others.
The murder of Franz Ferdinand: Horrible outcome
The murder of Osama Bin Laden: Good outcome

The Elvis bit was a reference to a monologue by Denis Leary, where he rants about the unfairness of Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin dying young while you simply cannot get Bon Jovi aboard a helicopter.

And on Lennon having lots still in him, the quality of his work was already suffering nearing the end. Without the balance of McCartney and the added craziness of Yoko Ono I doubt he'd bring a lot more to the table to be honest.
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: Niel on December 13, 2012, 12:30:37 PM
Bit of an odd way of putting things Faust.

If measuring people only regarding their artistic output where "John Lennon the bloke" has no value and "John Lennon the artist" is the balance by which you measure whether he lives or dies and dying artists only have value as a sales tool to the industry as they milk the "collection" "best of" " special extended" and "new unheard".

Using this rule and expanding it outside the music industry :-

Astronauts - its ok to kill em once they stop goign into space
Footballers - shoot em all the second they retire

Saying its a "good thing" for people to die just because they are no longer as good at a thing they used to be good at seems a very odd outlook and in my opionion requires a  long lay down on a comfy chair ;)

Cheers

Niel
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: RizZy on December 13, 2012, 01:32:21 PM
I have to kinda agree with Faust, I'm not saying it's good that people died, but you only remember those peeps in the prime of their lives & never have to watch them in the jump suit wearing 3rd division playing years of their careers.

Obviously alot of people go on to have success all the way through their careers, but in a parallel to Lennon, has McCartney ever done anything after The Beatles that matched up to them?
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: faust82 on December 14, 2012, 08:01:02 AM
Niel, I did make the reservations necessary in my post I think. John Lennon the Bloke was pretty much useless to the world as a whole, just as you or I am. We're just ants in an anthill, significant to our loved ones and those we consider friends, but not much value to a random person on a different continent. John Lennon the Artist was.
As such, his death was extremely unfortunate for his family and loved ones, but had he been John Lennon the Bloke he would have been just another of the 2.228 people murdered in New York City in 1980. Sad, but so were most of the others as well.
John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin will probably shine on forever because they died before they could ruin it all. Michael Jackson died as the punchline of the entire worlds jokes.
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: TeaLeaf on December 14, 2012, 08:08:17 AM
I think if people interpret things too strictly you end up with 'murder is good' which was clearly not Faust's intent.    Discuss the clear intent of the post please folks, not the selectively limited interpretation which ignores the obvious; nobody is saying murder is good.    And I agree, a fat Elvis is not a good memory.
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: Tutonic on December 14, 2012, 09:06:59 AM
That's an... interesting view. I think I see what you're getting at, it's better to burn out than to fade away and all that, but who's to say Lennon wasn't on the verge of doing something even more incredible?

I think any way you spin it, people with the sort of talent Lennon had don't come along very often so whenever we lose them it's a tragedy - regardless of whether you think they've 'peaked' or not.
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: smilodon on December 14, 2012, 11:06:05 AM
Yep I see the point being made. Marilyn Monroe will always be a movie goddess, James Dean will always be the coolest man alive. I'm sure they both would have loved to have lived to a ripe old age, but they'll never get old now and will always be as we remember them when they died. That being said there's the example of people like Clint Eastwood. After the spaghetti westerns and Harry Callahan movies had he died we'd have lost some great films with him as the main actor or director. I suppose we can only make a judgement call when we see creative people age and watch how their careers develop. Maybe James Dean would have matured like Sean Connery rather than Elvis? We'll never know.
Title: John Lennon 32 Years on
Post by: TheDvEight on December 14, 2012, 04:22:45 PM
I do think in the respect of Kurt Cobain, John Lennon, Amy Winehouse, Jade Goody etc etc dieing relatively young has proberly made there careers bigger.