Dead Men Walking

I know it's early to be talking about 2014, but as most know, the biggest change happens when the engines will be V6 Turbos (as well as Lewis realising what a catastrophic mistake he made joining Mercedes :lol:)

With the new engines and aerodynamics, the FIA were trying to slow the cars down further - it would of equated to 5 seconds a lap :blink:

F1's governing body backtracked on aerodynamic changes for the 2014 season because of fears the next generation of cars would be too slow.
After the recent World Motor Sport Council meeting in Turkey, the FIA announced that scheduled bodywork rule changes for 2014 to reduce downforce have been replaced by "2012 specification".
"There was concern that formula one cars would become too slow," read a report by the authoritative German magazine Auto Motor und Sport.
One problem is that the all-new turbo V6 and energy recovery systems will add considerable weight - and more than initially expected - to the 2014 single seaters.
With the 2014 rules, the FIA is reportedly aiming to slow down the F1 cars by no more than five seconds per lap.
Any more than that, the German report claimed, runs the risk that formula one could be genuinely outpaced by Le Mans prototype cars, or the US-based Indycars.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/112121951823/fia-concerned-fatter-f1-cars-could-be-slower-than-le-mans

14000 RPM limit to :crying: Bring back V10's!

I think you've miss read that. They're not aiming to slow down the cars. They're aiming to make them more fuel efficient (hence the change in engine) and they have to make sure they DON'T slow them down by more than 5 seconds a lap in the process (Hence allowing the current bodywork rules to be used).

All the changes explained by a nicely made promotion video:

[video=youtube;hFHmYFlbFn8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFHmYFlbFn8&noredirect=1[/video]

Here we go, I'm up and watching.  :boxing:

Bring it

Quote from: Luminance;382390All the changes explained by a nicely made promotion video:

[video=youtube;hFHmYFlbFn8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFHmYFlbFn8&noredirect=1[/video]

Cool break down

Race was good, lot's of interest, but I still miss the old engine noise.  No result posted here for fear of others not having seen the race yet, but lot's of racing, some good story lines and the usual assortment of good luck and bad luck.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;382453Race was good, lot's of interest, but I still miss the old engine noise.  No result posted her for fear of others not having seen the race yet, but lot's of racing, some good story lines and the usual assortment of good luck and bad luck.

What we gonna do when racing is electric ....Is it me or do they all look so young

I'm glad Canada is on the List.

Seems redbull have been given a penalty ... Whisky Tango Foxtrot!

Yep, great shame for Ric, but it does seem fairly clear cut from what I read and entirely the fault of the Red Bull team as the fuel flow sensor is a homologated product.   As I understand it, all of these sensors work within a window of accuracy and the FIA issue an 'offset' to each team for that specific sensor to level the playing field.   Red Bull seem to have ignored that request and decided to use their own sensor readings instead, thus ignoring the mandated fuel flow sensor.    

Was the FIA sensor inaccurate, yes it seems clear that it was giving out incorrect data.
Was the offset sufficient to make the FIA sensor readings accurate, I don't know but one would have to assume that this was the purpose of the offset issued to Red Bull.
Was Red Bull stupid for ignoring the mandated offset and official fuel flow sensor, absolutely.

I'd be stunned if Red Bull won this one, it's a clear Regulation breach and it would be so wrong to send a massage to the rest of the pit lane that they could ignore either the Regulations or the FIA if they disagreed with them or thought they knew better.

I really feel for Ric, apart from the pace which might have been faster than otherwise possible with a lower fuel flow rate, he had a great qualifying and drove a superb weekend and deserved a result.

http://www.pitpass.com/51117/Race-Stewards-ruling-on-Ricciardo

It was nice to see the Mclaren's come home solidly. Magnusson seems to be an awesome signing very much like Hamilton came through a few years ago. 2 and 3 will make Ron happy.

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So here it is 4:12am EST, got up to watch the qual, and sure enough it's a down pour. Why do I even bother when they are in OZ or Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Quit laughing Duck, I can hear yah :eyebrow:

Ant

Quote from: atomant;382854.
Quit laughing Duck, I can hear yah :eyebrow:

Ant

Farcical. :roflmao:

"Bernie, when's the best time to have a GP race in Malaysia?"

"I know" says Bernie "March-April, when the first monsoons of the year arrive"

Well China wasn't a patch on Bahrain but interesting event near the end ...

QuoteYou may remember Lewis Hamilton reporting over team radio that someone had waved the chequered flag on the wrong lap.

According to the FIA's regulations, "should the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given."

That would mean Kamui Kobayashi's last-lap overtake on Jules Bianchi does not count and the Caterham driver will finish 18th, with Bianchi 17th.

Now that could have been *very* controversial had the chasing pack been a bit tighter.

The race to the first corner was intense, I'm amazed that no one suffered any bad damage out of all that contact.

My man Alanso is looking better every race. Thanks for the info Oldbloke, I wasn't aware of the wording of that rule and you're right, that could have been very controversial.

AAnt

Quote from: OldBloke;383530Now that could have been *very* controversial had the chasing pack been a bit tighter.

A situation where a lap cost him a position.   Sort of like a similar situation where Vettel cost Ricciardo his chance to overtake Alonso, he was one lap short of stealing the podium from Alonso, all because Vettel did not want to obey team orders (again).   Alonso should send Vettel some flowers.

Canada.... a corker    

Nico cutting the track ?..... looked a bit suspect :g:

2 cars getting ERS fails withing seconds of one another but still keep a competitive pace and caused a great chase

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;385091Canada.... a corker    

Nico cutting the track ?..... looked a bit suspect :g:

2 cars getting ERS fails withing seconds of one another but still keep a competitive pace and caused a great chase

Massa on Alonso ... sweeeeeet :D

27G crash apparently. Ouch!

#luckyoldrosberg

Button did well, shame we didn't see any of it

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Quote from: Snokio;385095Button did well, shame we didn't see any of it

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Good point. Actually, the coverage was poor IMHO. The shot often cut away at completely the wrong time.

Quote from: OldBloke;385096Good point. Actually, the coverage was poor IMHO. The shot often cut away at completely the wrong time.

Such as the moment Hamilton's rear brakes went and it started to overshoot the hairpin, it became obvious we were about to see Rosberg retake the lead.......until the camera cut away to something irrelevant. :doh:

Perez rightly penalised for the accident with Massa.

Tremendous overtake from Ricciardo into T1, how he managed to keep the car on the track and not miss T2 I do not know!    Popular winner too. #webbersaysthankyou

Rosberg, possibly one of the luckiest SOBs out there.   Both in terms of escaping a DNF and also in not getting penalised for his 'fastest lap' when he cut the corner at the last chicane when he was unable to defend (and stay on the track) against the Lewis overtake.   He also got a poor start & out-braked himself badly for T1 and ran Hamilton right off the road, which cost Lewis a bunch of time and bumped Hamilton back to third.  

Hamilton, possibly one of the unluckiest SOBs out there.  He was clearly the quicker car out there during the race and if reliability had not killed his race he would have had a comfortable lead by the end and taken another Canadian GP win.   Lewis also avoided two accidents today, both of which would have been caused by Rosberg: the T1 start incident and the ridiculous final chicane incident where Rosberg braked so late he would not even have had time to stop for the pits. :doh:

Loved the Massa drive, right up until the Perez 'moment'.

What happened to Button?   Where did all that last few laps pace come from? :blink:

Bad luck for Chilton, the stewards were a bit heavy-handed with him imo with a grid penalty which is difficult to justify for someone who has otherwise driven cleanly for the last 27 races.


Good race, nice winner, real poor weekend result for Lewis.   Rosberg must be sitting there selling the souls of future lives for this run of luck.

I was really hoping for a Masa win to give williams a victory, super fast but not one of the greatest overtakers out there. Button could not get on with the supersofts hense slow performance in the first stint. Agreed also on the general coverage was poor (what was the cameraman even thinking panning out to the crowd like that?!?)

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Entertaining race, unlucky for Lewis again, at least he wasn't moping around like he was after Monaco. Vettel was lucky to manage to avoid Massa/Perez. Great bit when the camera panned up towards the crowd, and the commentator started saying something like look at the excited... And then changed tack as the camera came to rest and you could see the crowd just sitting staring. Bring on the continued Hamilton fightback :-)

Here comes the Austrian Grand Prix at the sponsor=named 'Red Bull Ring' (previously called A1 Ring and originally as the Osterreiching).

Here's the old circuit and the new (unchanged since F1's last visit).   I still prefer the old one, the feeling of speed is amazing.

So, who's at Silverstone this weekend? Watching Kamikaze-kimi

Quote from: Deminion;386006So, who's at Silverstone this weekend? Watching Kamikaze-kimi

Not me but soooo wish I was :D

Decided not to go this year and tbh glad I did not as the TV had some spectacular racing action.    

[spoiler=Silverstone F1 Grand Prix]I see Vettel still has a polarised view of the world, it was ok for him to force Lewis off the track and crash into him on lap 1, but when he's on the receiving end of it from Alonso he doesn't think it is either funny or legal.  

Thoroughly enjoyed the race though.

-Lewis was overdue some luck, one more DNF for Nico and it'll be all square in the luck department.
-Bottas did superbly and I'm thoroughly pleased for Williams to pull a podium out of an otherwise dire weekend.
-Alonso had a brilliant drive too to finish in the points.
-Mercedes pace was stunning.   Almost 3 seconds per lap quicker in the first stint when Nico & Lewis were racing. :blink:

Final thought:
Despite losing his entire race pace running in free practice due to mechanical failure on his car, Lewis was still demonstrably quicker than Nico and once he had the prime tyre on he was destroying Nico's pace and would have overtaken him anyway imo.[/spoiler]

Im hoping that when McLaren get the Honda engine next year they will be more competitive with Mercedes (and co), Merc being a works team/engine ofc has given them full advantage this season and due to regulations will not be caught by any other team using the dame engine although Williams doing a fine job! Renault seems to be behind having only being able to use 80% power (IIRC). Good race today and driver of the day split between Alonso snd Botas

With Lotus rumoured to be moving to Mercedes engines, the Renault F1 engine program is becoming relatively expensive given how few engines they will be supplying.   Honda will be a nice injection of fresh blood and they have a tremendous track record in past F1.

I dont think Mclaren will be the only team to use the Honda power unit, Im sure Honda will be keen for others to use it. I dont want to see too many teams using Merc units tbh

I think Honda said they weren't interested in supplying customer engines at least for the first few years?  Can't recall where I read it, but I think therefore I may be wrong!

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Honda have already set up a European headquarters for their Formula One operations, in Milton Keynes ..... Could this be next door to Redbull ?

Honestly, if it wasn't for bad luck he'd have no luck at all :sad:

Rain tomorrow please.

Totally agree, even Lauda thought it appalling luck and very unfair. Was struggling to get my Sky running on my laptop, it seems Sky don't want to give you access when you're abroad, so I had to use a vpn in the end to make it think I was in the uk.  Ferrari messed up again with Raikkonen out in q1.

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Quote from: OldBloke;386505Rain tomorrow please.

Thank you :)

Great race!  Very surprised by team orders being given when the gap was as big as it was, I thought that a little odd.  Eg. The gap from Rosberg to JEV was 0.3 but Rosberg didn't get much closer than 0.9 secs?  He spent a chunk of time not even having drs.

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I'd decided after the first few races that I wouldn't bother to make an effort to watch each race... well that's been forgotten since Silverstone, what a great season this is turning out to be :D

Medium tyre seemed pretty redundant in this race, slow and degrades at the same rate as the softs!?! Great race, happy for Ricardo and gutted that Mclaren got it wrong on the choice of tyres during first pit stops (I was hoping it would rain again)

Huge uproar in the news websites after yesterday's F1 race which I will preface by saying that I was (prior to the race) a Division II Rosberg supporter and a Premiership Hamilton supporter.

Ferrari:
Amazingly light penalty for sending people back onto the grid to start Alonso's engine.   A five second stop & go to be served during the next pit stop was stunningly weak from the stewards given how dangerous it was to the pit crew and for other drivers to have jack and other equipment on the grid as F1 cars went by.   Imagine what could have happened - car behind sees the crew and avoids, but next car is unsighted and does not realise so drives right into the back of Alonso killing pit crew and maiming the F1 driver.   The F1 driver being maimed btw is not Alonso, he'd be fine, it would be the driver whose car hit the steel jack that was pointing like a lance out of the back of the Ferrari which could have then punched through the chassis right into the drivers legs and mangled them like a mincer.   Good job Ferrrari in thinking through the lesser of two evils, they prioritised their points over their staff and driver safety.   Bad move.

Magnussen:
Quite rightly got penalised after pushing 75% of Alonso's Ferrari onto the grass at 210mph on the approach to Les Combes.  This 20 second penalty pushed him from 6th to an 'out of the points' 12th place.   His move on Alonso was nothing short of bloody dangerous and the head on camera angle gave the best view of just how much of Alonso's car was on the grass.  Given that at that point there were FOUR cars almost abreast across the circuit you can see the potential for one little grassy bump to trigger a monumentally awful accident.   Magnussen got away very lightly, especially as he was lucky that Button's points on their own were enough to overtake Force India in the Constructors Champsionship (McLaren are now two points ahead of Force India), imagine how amused Ron Dennis would be if Magnussen's mistake had meant they stuck in 6th still and behind Force India!

Raikonnen
Good to see he finally got a clean race and some points.

Ricciardo aka "the smiling bloke")
Again demonstrated he can handle the Red Bull better than Vettel.   This season is definitely going a long way to devaluing Vettel's reputation as a premier driver.   These days the memories (and the conversation) is more along the lines of:

-Webber was a great bloke but was only ever an average driver
-Vettel regularly beat Webber because Vettel was an average to good driver
-Ricciardo is a good driver which is why he regularly beats Vettel
-Vettel only won his World Championships because he was the better of the two drivers at the time in Adrian Newey's dominating Red Bull car

The logic seems sound to me, feel free to correct me if you see an error.

Vettel
Will someone please get this kid a map so that he can learn where the track limits are?   I'm getting really bored of seeing him ignore them every race.  Yesterday he was the worst offender at Raidillon (the top bit of Eau Rouge) and in particular at Stavelot (aka Stavelot 1 or turn 15).  He does this every race and very rarely does anyone ever actually haul him over the coals for it.  Grrr.

Rosberg & Hamilton
Do I need to say more?   After watching the replays during the race I thought the double steering move by Rosberg a little odd, but concluded that the incident was another event in a year during which Hamilton can't even buy some luck.  I had believed that Rosberg's move was simply over-eagerness, clumsy and that he would apologise for ruining his team mate's race in the post race interview.

Then I listened to the podium, post-race and paddock interviews and he said nothing.   No apology, not even a nod in that direction.  Indeed he amazed me by saying that he "could not comment until he had seen the incident on TV".  Errr, come again?   You were there driving the car at the time, were behind and had a full view of the other F1 car and had the best view in the house, how could you not know what went on?   At this point my feelings for Rosberg as a person started to go downhill a little as I thought not apologizing was classless.

Then I heard the reports from the 16:45 meeting yesterday between Paddy Lowe, Totto Wolff, Rosberg & Hamilton.   And now I am officially gob-smacked.  Rosberg is confirmed (by Mercedes) as saying that he wanted to hold his line, he wanted to make a point to Lewis that he would not be pushed off the track even though he only has the front of his wing alongside Hamilton's rear tyre.   He could have avoided the incident (now that double move of the steering wheel begins to make more sense to me), but he chose to "make a point" to Lewis.   In anyone's book that's the same as saying he hit Hamilton deliberately but without using those damning words.

What will Mercedes do?   In my mind this to have a serious reaction from Mercedes and I'd suggest a one race ban.   Rosberg loses a race worth of Championship points, but if Mercedes give the reserve driver a race then their car is good enough that they'll still get Constructors points and it will send a message that you simply can't hit other drivers "to make a point".

Messrs Piquet Jr, Briatore & Simmonds all know the effect of deliberately causing an accident and had a ban from F1.  Will the FIA re-open this incident to investigate further?

Now consider Nico's father (Keke Rosberg) and Keke's reaction when Michael Schumacher, during qualifying for the Monaco grand prix in 2006, parked his car at the Rascasse corner to ensure he kept pole position.  The stewards, media & fans went nuts on him and Keke was very outspoken, calling Schumacher (amongst other things) a "cheat".

Now remember that Rosberg had a similarly controversial incident (which he escaped without penalty) at Monaco this year when he 'lost control' as he approached Mirabeau and that this loss of control followed by his highly unusual reversing out onto the track again caused everyone else's hotlaps to be ruined, thus keeping pole position for Nico Rosberg.

Now factor in the way Nico Rosberg usually drives the Les Combes corner in a Mercedes.   Here's a clip from the 2010 Spa Grand Prix - this time Rosberg is on the inside racing line where Hamilton was and Schumacher was on the left where Rosberg was yesterday.   Schumacher is ahead going into Les Combes and has almost a complete car length alongside Rosberg as they turn into the second apex of Les Combes and look what Rosberg does to him.  

(camera view from Schumacher's car)

Now think that Rosberg is saying Hamilton should have left him room (even though he was not even alongside by the middle of Les Combes), Rosberg's second steering wheel input to turn into Hamilton's car and Rosberg saying that he wanted to make a point to Hamilton.

Having considered all of the above, I'm no longer a Rosberg supporter, not even at Conference level.   I'm disappointed with him and now convinced that he did at Monaco what I had previously thought he probably did not do.  I was wrong.

I wonder what Keke Rosberg will say about his son's lack of sportsmanship (or plain old cheating)?

Good race but I doubt very much Rosberg did it on purpose, I think he means he wasnt backing out of the move but Ham closed the door (almost a contradiction), not a fan of either of them so to speak, but I do think this story is not big as they are making it out to be tbh, very easy to analyse something 20 times at 5 angles and slow motion at something that happened over a period of a couple of seconds or so IMHO :)

Agree with the Ferrari start ... Far too dangerous to have people on the track as the cars set off. Also picking his way through weaving cars to get back into his grid slot didn't look safe. A pit lane or back of the pack start was required.

Ross/Ham incident was always going to happen at some point and will again before the end of this season.

TL you mentioned the Monaco incident  I also remember another I think at Canada. Ros drove over the tarmac run-off area and rejoined the track through the gap. By keeping his foot in Rosberg lost so little time he set the fastest lap of the race when he crossed the finishing line. He also pulled a few tenths of a second clear of Hamilton â€" enough to break the DRS window and Ham melted his breaks trying to catch the time back
Given the fact they deleted his lap time set on this lap from his ‘fastest lap/current lap’ graphic, I find it strange that they don’t think he gained an advantage from exceeding the track limits.
+1 to the Rosberg (I was trained by DickDastardly) camp :blink:

Excellent race summary TL. I agree entirely with your views ... except one.

I'm a huge LH fan too but, for me, the man lost some brownie points yesterday due to his whining. Yes, he's had an incredibly tough time of late and he tries his best to sound positive in interviews but I'm not buying it. He's an emotional guy and he simply cannot hide that in pre-arranged soundbites. Yesterday, Rosberg got one over him both on the track and psychologically. He had a point to make to the pundits who, quite rightly IMHO, say that he (Rosberg) is quick but not capable of taking it to LH in a race. He is now smiling from ear-to-ear.

What happens next is anyone's guess. If Jean Todt gets involved and issues a punishment he will be undermining the stewards who, I read, did look at the incident and decided to take no action. Mercedes cannot damage their chances for points in the remaining races (or next year) by ****ing off one of the drivers so what can they do? I do like your idea, TL, but can't see it happening.

I think we'll see a strongly worded missive from Mercedes containing a new set of 'rules of engagement' for their drivers and we, the punters, can look forward to the next race.

now that we're into the second half of the F1 year, the 'silly season' is officially upon us.  Let driver speculation commence!

Interesting comments from Gian Carlo Minardi (the founder/owner of the Minardi F1 team) over the weekend about driver movements:

• With Honda desperate to return to F1 with a top name driver Minardi sees an opening at McLaren next year
• With Magnussen doing the business that means Button would lose his McLaren seat
• Of the three top drivers not under contract in 2015, Alonso has ruled himself out with his recent statements about remaining with Ferrari next year
• That leaves Hamilton & Vettel as possible McLaren targets for Button's seat
• Hamilton has stated only recently that he is keen to sign a new 3 year deal with Mercedes and remain in his current team
• That leaves Vettel as the obvious choice for Honda to back for a McLaren seat.
• Minardi reports that Ecclestone is 'very keen' to see the four time world champion pairing up with Honda.
• Minardi also says that Ecclestone made a special trip to speak to Vettel this past weekend to promote the possibility of a move to McLaren Honda.
• With Ricciardo giving Vettel a pasting and Newey going to play with yachts next year that might push the Sebster into the Ron Dennis camp and open up a spot at Red Bull alongside Ricciardo.
• Torro Rosso's signing of the currently 16 yr old (seriously, that young is illegal in some states) Verstappen fills one Torro Rosso seat and they already have Kvyat under contract with JEV losing his drive for 2015.
• Torro Rosso's young driver program is up in arms about Verstappen jumping several formulas and a load of other drivers to get to the Torro Rosso F1 seat.  Top of that list is Carlos Sainz Jr who is well known, well funded and with a decent pedigree (just like Verstappen).
• So Minardi thinks that will mean Torro Rosso sign Carlos Sainz Jr and put him into Kvyat's seat.
• Kvyat then gets pushed up to the spare Red Bull seat to drive alongside Ricciardo.
• So what happens to Button and where does he drive?  I'm not sure many teams lower down the grid could pick up his â,¬16m salary.
• Ferrari and Button don't seem to sit well together, so as Raikonnen's seat does not free up until 2016 the prancing horse is not an option (even though they have the money to pay him)
• Could Massa be removed and replaced by Button?  Unlikely as it would cost Williams a ton of cash that they probably do not have to break Massa's contract and that would still leave them trying to find money to pay Button.  Massa's contract is through at least 2015 with options beyond that for both sides.
• All the above goes out of the window if this past weekend impacts upon Hamilton's previous determination to remain at Mercedes and prompts him to look further east for his horsepower.  Senna & Honda are a potent memory for him, I'm just not sure it is potent enough to overcome the strict regimentation of everything at McLaren, so you never know.
• And my own personal speculation:

   IF Hamilton to McLaren THEN Bottas (NOT Vettel) to Mercedes AND Button to Williams.[/LIST]

All speculation, but interesting none the less.   Made me think about things for a few minutes and the possibilities were quite entertaining!

Interesting, I think if Button stays ahead of Mag this season he will stay with Mclaren with one year contract, if he enjoys F1 then he would take a pay cut like Massa did when joining Williams, dont think Frank would consider Button when s deal went sour many years ago.
Suspect Honda will supply engines to other teams, Suber a possibilty and maybe Redbull / Lotus unless Renault get their act together. Bottas and Mercedes seem a good match, maybe a switch with Ham or Rosberg

...and on the back of yesterday's speculation, the BBC post something today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28952174

Thanks for linky, would be strange to hear the likes of Button and Alonso retiring at such a young age, it cant be down to fitness like footballers, and reaction time would not have deteriorated. Shame the Schumacher period didn't bring success of an elder statesman. It would have proved age is not a factor

Planet-F1: Retirement beckons for Button

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/9444052/Retirement-beckons-for-Button

Button out would be a shame .. I would prefer the likes of Maldanado/perez/masa out and Jb moving to another team

Hes a very consistent driver and would be a fair bit in front of magnuson if not for some tragic team calls in race

Breaking news:
Mercedes have taken disciplinary action against Rosberg.  More info to follow.

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The soap opera continues, great stuff :thumb:

Not much more info really, seems like just a fine as suspected:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28984082

Verstappen (Torro Rosso's 16yr old signing for 2015) this weekend proved that he was absolutely ready for F1......

..... by crashing during his first public demo in an F1 car.


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You couldn't make it up


[ATTACH=CONFIG]2747[/ATTACH]

Quite surprised a 16yr old has the strength to drive one of these things. The again, maybe he doesn't :clap2:

Can't blame him though, anyone in his position would jump at the opportunity, I know I would have :D

18+ at least IMHO

Going back to Rosberg, it was reported yesterday that the internal discipline procedure from the Mercedes team was a six-figure fine.

Luca di montezemolo has officially stepped down at Ferrari after 23 years at the helm. Sergio manchionne has taken over (head of Fiat auto who own 90% of Ferrari as well as Lancia, Fiat, Masaerati and Alfa Romeo), the 2 didn't really get on according to reports as Sergio was not happy with limited numbers of road cars and F1 performance. Monte has been at the helm since Enzo's death in the 80's. He in my eyes has been very successful and will be missed

So, today the FIA banned radio messages which provide 'driver advice'.  Personally I like this, a driver should be able to go racing and not be told what to do or ask (as in Nico's case) for "driving advice".

As for Luca di Montezemolo, he has been having a massive argument with Sergio Marchionne for some time now.   Marchionne wants Ferrari to become more like Fiat and build much higher volumes, di Montezemolo wanted Ferrari to stay niche and be an exclusive lower volume manufacturer.   The trouble is that Ferrari's bottom line is healthy enough to make Marchionne multiply it on the assumption that building and selling multiples more will translate directly to multiples more profit for the group, so that's the argument in a nutshell.   Shame someone had to lose, but $26m to walk away is not too harsh a blow to di Montezemelo!   I owuld certainly support him in favour of Marchionne who I reckon has just enough brains to be dangerous for Ferrari.   With the top two F1 people now gone (and Todt gone a couple of years ago), there's not a lot of F1 experience to bring to the party at Ferrari these days.

Wonder what Alonso makes of all this? :norty:

FIA banned radio messages which provide 'driver advice' .... interesting :g:

QuoteQ: Will race control first give a warning if a team goes too far, or will there be an instant sanction?
A: With a clear set of guidelines, we see no reason for there to be warnings.

Q: Does Article 20.1 of the Sporting Regulations (stating that a driver must drive the car alone and unaided) only apply to the race or also to practice sessions and qualifying?
A: It will apply to the entire event.

Q: Is the message that a driver should come in for a pit-stop a breach of the regulations?
A: We think that it would be OK to allow teams to tell drivers when to stop for tyres.

Q: Is a warning that the driver is tight on fuel consumption a breach of the regulations?
A: Yes, we believe so. The driver should see that on the dashboard (like a fuel gauge on a road car). *

Q: Are warnings about the condition of the brakes or tyres (slow puncture) still allowed?
A: No, this should be displayed to the driver from data gathered onboard, again like a fuel gauge on a road car.

Q: Are commands such as SOC 3, MIX 5, FUEL 2 still allowed?
A: No, definitely not. This is exactly what we feel infringes Article 20.1.

Q: What about all of the instructions the drivers receive on a formation lap in order to warm up the tyres and brakes, synchronise the gearbox, carry out burnouts and so on?
A: None of this would be allowed as again, this is exactly what we feel infringes Article 20.1.

Q: What about team orders (overtake, do not overtake)?
A: This should be OK.

Q: What about information regarding traffic in qualifying and the race?
A: This will not be a problem.

Q: Will the radio messages of all 22 cars be checked, or just those on the world feed?
A: We listen to and record all the conversations.

I see people burning out brakes running out of fuel overheating the ERS along with some ingenious code words slipped into conversations.


 

Also more good news Schumacher has come out of hospital

Interesting on the team radio, I'm sure they will adapt using steering wheel or pit board messages.

Renault are reporting that fuel consumption will be on the limit this weekend at Singapore.

http://www.espn.co.uk/singapore/motorsport/story/175487.html

Quote from: Renault's head of track operations Remi TaffinIn fact we will use the largest amount of fuel per lap over the season here and we will be right on the limit of the 100kg permitted. To put this in context, last year we used 150kg of fuel - over 30% more.

30% :blink:

If they're relying on Remi's maths ability to calculate fuel loads it's no wonder they're running out of fuel :doh:

Fortunately Remi's maths did not become an issue today! :P

Brilliant race, many battles, many surprises.  Nuff said :racing:

I'll be seriously ticked off if this robs us of seeing whether 2014 F1 cars can go round 130R flat.  It will also make the Driver's Championship a total lottery given that double points are awarded for the last race.   If we lose Suzuka, then we have 4 races left - the winner of Abu Dhabi can negate two Grand Prix wins of those last four grand prix, so to avoid being given the 'golden ticket' Championship win from AbuDhabi, they need to win the first three races of the last four.  

(http://www.pitpass.com/images/various/800/2014japanweatherthurs02.jpg)

Picture and article at Pitpass:
http://www.pitpass.com/52574/Typhoon-threatens-Japanese-GP

Fingers crossed for Bianchi.

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Quote from: TeaLeaf;388870Fingers crossed for Bianchi.

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Indeed.

Glad not to have seen the accident, sounds horrible.

Quote from: Snokio;388876Glad not to have seen the accident, sounds horrible.

Indeed, lets hope for a speedy recovery.
I am saddened today by the loss of one my favourite drivers, Andrea de Cesaris who had a m/bike accident yesterday.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/former-f1-driver-andrea-de-cesaris-killed-in-motorcycle-accident/

Jules's crash its out there now.
It was close to being even worse. The marshals were very much in the mix as they worked on removing the first car
One thing I was unclear on .... Did they bring out the safety car after the first crash or wait? I seem to think they waited and it came out with the medical vehicle

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;388932... Did they bring out the safety car after the first crash or wait? I seem to think they waited and it came out with the medical vehicle

I think the SC came after the medical car was called. They left the pits together.

Safety car was not out at the time of the second accident.  Marshals were trying to recover the first car under double waved yellow flags.

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Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;388932Jules's crash its out there now. It was close to being even worse.

Sickening footage. I'm truly amazed he survived that.

Thats what I thought. They should have called a safety car as soon as men and machinery were on the circuit. He didn't crash on the same lap it was 1 or 2 laps after and still racing.

Im also confused with a marshal in the booth above waving a green flag as all this is unfolding under him

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;388937...Im also confused with a marshal in the booth above waving a green flag as all this is unfolding under him

The 1st marshal station *after* the incident waves a green flag.

holy crap just seen the video....i think the raised cockpit sides definitely helped him, it lifted the tractor up...i would have hated to think what would have happened without the raised sides

hope he gets well soon and returns...unfortunatly rumors are marussia wont be around next year...was discussed by brundles and the boys before the race

It is horrifying footage, the speed carried into the impact was far higher than Sutil's and the contact looked in the worst place possible.

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Just seen the footage, the fact that they have to show it in slow motion just shows how quick he was going, really hope he is ok. That rain was ridiculous, you can't race in that.  Really hope he recovers!

Details were released, Bianchi suffered a 'diffuse axonal injury' (DAI).  This is a 'generalised' brain injury rather than a localised one and is most often associated with rapid acceleration or deceleration of the head.   A result of the injury is that the connective nerve axons are often ripped apart.   Additional damage can be caused by tissue-shearing under the extreme force of the de/acceleration.  It's your basic 'squished brain in a skull' problem.

Everything I read about DAI sounds nasty.  This is what brainandspinalcord.org says about the prognosis for DAI victims:

QuotePrognosis of Diffuse Axonal Injury
It is thought that diffuse axonal injury can occur in just about every level of severity, with concussion thought to be one of the milder forms. In mild to moderate forms of diffuse axonal injury, recovery is possible, with the mildest forms of diffuse axonal injury often resulting in few if any long-term issues.

About 90% of survivors with severe diffuse axonal injury remain unconscious. The 10% that regain consciousness are often severely impaired.

AFAIAA the press release does not say if this is 'severe' or 'moderate/mild', but having seen the crash I cannot see any possibility of it being anything less than severe - and that scares the heck out of me for Jules and his family.   Fingers, toes and everything else is crossed for Jules' recovery.

Sounds like his injury was then not sustained as a result of a direct impact / blow to the head which in itself good news I suppose (and had feared happened)

It's impossible to tell for sure, but:

-from the video the car appeared to be heading straight (not sliding sideways), so it might be that the left side of the car was ripped off by the impact with the rear of the tactor as it passed by en route to a head-on collision with the barrier.   This might account for the sight of two crushed wheels under the rear of the traktor. The deceleration would be when he hit the barrier beyond the tractor.

-why was he heading straight on without any rotational speed?   If he aquaplaned on a corner surely he would have been rotating as he headed towards the tractor?   And why was he going so fast?

That last bit only struck me today, he was defintely appearing to be going straight in the video, although it was really difficult to be certain as it was side on and low resolution.   The speed aspect seems to suggest possible mechanical failure though.

It's looking like it is going to be a highly exciting end to the F1 season.

Three races left:
   USA
Brazil
Abu Dhabi (double points)

Quote from: F1 Driver's ChampionshipLewis Hamilton   291
Nico Rosberg   274

Quote from: F1 Points per race (double for Abu Dhabi)1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

So, possibilities for the last three races?   With 50 points available for the race win in Abu Dhabi (and 100 points across the three remaining F1 races) it could get interesting.

In order to make the double points irrelevant Hamilton would need a 51 point lead over Rosberg before the Abu Dhabi, but Hamilton cannot win the Championship in the USA as there would still be 75 points from the remaining races and a maximum lead over Rosberg of 42 points.

Massive number of permutations on this, but my huge fear is that the 2014 F1 World Driver's Championship is going to be decided by either a reliability issue, or someone else driving into Hamilton/Rosberg and wrecking their race.   I sincerely hope we get the racing, not the reliability problem or the crash.

If Rosberg finishes 5th or better in the US Grand Prix then the Championship goes to Abu Dhabi and Brazil becomes irrelevant.

QuoteIf Rosberg finishes 5th or better in the US Grand Prix then the Championship goes to Abu Dhabi and Brazil becomes irrelevant

Another reason why the double points are so bad.

I have no idea why that sentence got left in the post.  It was half a mathematical thought and on its own is wrong (just like double points).

Sorry! :blush:

Marussia to miss US GP and possibly Brazil due to struggling financially and Caterham in administration will also miss US and Brazil GP :(

Sad news for both teams, really like Caterham and Marussia are expecting ££ due to Jules ninth position in Monaco (don't think Sauber have scored yet IIRC?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29770496

The Yanks are not going to be happy. F1 still has bridges to mend there after the 2005 fiasco.

With the US Grand Prix kicking off later today, I'm revisiting the nightmare scenarios that are possible in this year's Driver's Championship and thought we should remind ourselves of the points situation and the 'fairness' situation.

• There are just 3 Grand Prix left: US, Brazil and Abu Dhabi
• Abu Dhabi has 'double points' this year, thanks to another blinding idea from Bernie. :doh:
• Hamilton leads the Championship by 17 points.
• Hamilton has won 9 races so far this year, Rosberg just 4.
• Hamilton has retired from 3 races due to mechanical failure, Rosberg has retired from only 2 races.
• If Hamilton wins the US and Brazil Grand Prix with Rosberg second in each, then Hamiltons lead will be 32 points.
• The Abu Dhabi Grand Prix has 50 points available for the winner.
• If Rosberg retires from the race at either US or Brazil and Lewis wins both races, then Rosberg could still afford to come second in the other and still win the Championship by winnning Abu Dhabi.
• If Hamilton wins the US Grand Prix and Rosberg is second then the Brazil Grand Prix becomes utterly irrelevant to the Championship.
• Potentially, if Hamilton won the US & Brazil Grand Prix, and Rosberg won Abu Dhabi, you could have a German F1 World Champion who won just 5 races during the year and a British runner-up who won 11 races but still lost the Championship.  That's just plain wrong.

It strikes me that dear old Bernie 'not quite there anymore' Ecclestone, in his attempt to not make Brazil (the usual last race of the year) irrelevant, has managed to precisely that.  

It is clearly ridiculous that the Brazil Grand Prix could be not even worth running.   In that event and in order to reduce potential grid penalties for power unit failures, would Mercedes bother running their cars AT ALL at the Brazil Grand Prix?  Why not turn the revs and power right down, do a single lap and then retire in order to keep your car in the best possible shape for the 'double bonanza' Abu Dhabi Grand Prix?

Bah, it makes me mad to think that a retirement or being hit by another driver could settle this year's F1 Driver Championship. :angry:

Bernie has to go.  To a home.

PS:
The icing on the cake is that not only are we 4 cars down for the US Grand Prix, we'll be 5 cars down for Qualifying if, as is strongly rumoured, Vettel doesn't bother to qualify at all and opts to start from the pit lane in order to take the power unit penalty in one hit and minimise the stress on the power unit which has to last the next 3 Grand Prix.  So Bernie's rules also encourage you to not bother qualifying.   Something needs to change.

A nice article summarising the remaining ways of winning or losing the F1 Driver's Championship, including a comparison with a normal single points Abu Dhabi.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/11/10/2014-brazilian-grand-prix-stats-facts/

The TLDR double points version:

Under Double Points, for Hamilton to win the Championship if Rosberg finishes:
1st then Hamilton has to finish 2nd
2nd then Hamilton has to finish 5th or better
3rd then Hamilton has to finish 6th or better
4th then Hamilton has to finish 8th or better
5th then Hamilton has to finish 9th or better
Hamilton wins whatever happens if Rosberg does not finish in the top 5 places

The hypothetical version: (also applies if the race is stopped before 75% distance as then only half points applies)

If Abu Dhabi were a normal single points race, then for Hamilton to win the Championship if Rosberg finishes:
1st then Hamilton has to finish 6th or better
2nd then Hamilton has to finish 10th or better
Hamilton would win whatever happened if Rosberg did not finish in the top 2 places

That's a massive difference in pressure on the last race, because I can't see the Abu Dhabi race being red-flagged for rain or snow. :sad:

F1 is broken by design at the moment, but on the bright side Bernie Ecklestone is very old now, retirement and/or a care home must be on the cards soon. Then things can get back to normal.

Dont like Bernie to much, especially when he said he didnt like caterham 'begging'
It will be a 1.2 merc unless reliability becomes a factor (doubt it will rain lol)

If you are near the Silverstone circuit tomorrow (Friday) you might want to drop in and sneak a peek at McLaren's new Honda-powered MP4-29H development car.  Honda have confirmed that the car will be running for a 'filming day' on demonstration tyres, but it will be invaluable as a shake-down for the new connections, systems and most important of all, the new Honda power unit.

The 2015 McLaren F1 car can't be run until after the Abu Dhabi test days following the grand prix, so this is much needed bonus mileage for Honda & McLaren's new partnership.

Lets hope they keep Button!

Caterham will be racing come this weekend, although they lost Ericsson and doubt they will be able to progress at all. Sad day for F1 as I doubt we will see Murussia or Caterham next year, can't help but feel the same fate for suber to :(

But as long as Bernie continues to get his Billions and pass comment on how they run their 'business' nothing matters! Is there any 'pure' sports these days where turnover / profit isn't priority?

On a slightly different note and returning to driver movement from one team to another, I found this Twitter comment to be nicely thought-provoking.

Keep in mind that McLaren have just delayed (again) the announcement of its 2016 driver line up.

QuoteThere’s more to this than meets the eye. Vettel hasn’t announced anything except leaving the red bull team, Alonso says all will make sense soon.

They’re all clearly waiting to find out about 3 car teams.

@Broke84

Jules Bianchi is out of his artificial coma and is breathing unaided.  He has been transferred from Japan to an intensive care facility in Nice.

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That's great news. I was beginning to think he'd been forgotten about.

Also the very generous Bernie E has kindly provided a charter aircraaaft and assistance to Caterham.

How out of character!

Ferrai officially confirm that Alonso is leaving at the end of this season.

They also officially announced the signing of Vettel to a 3 year contract starting next season.

Abu Dhabi's Grand Prix weekend kicks off NOW!

Free Practice 1 starts in 25 minutes at 09:00 GMT.
FP2 is at 14:00 GMT.

TV is ON, kettle is ON, toaster is ON and ready to settle down on the couch to enjoy the first session! :racing:

I thought this was good in the press conferance yesterday

http://***1.co.uk/button-alonso-abu-dhabi-press-conference/

Borked link.  Might be the forum software thinking the first bit of the URL is rude!

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yeah ok so the first 3 letters are using the phoetic alphabet      Whistky Tango Foxtrot :D

There are no spoilers here if you havant watched quliy yet but a bit of fun from my fave Mr Button

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30134015

Watch his face it is epic!!!!

Haha, i hadn't noticed it myself, it was quite funny Seb talking the micky and Alsono put on the spot about who he would prefer as a teammate for next year

It's getting more like the boxing pre-match stuff. Where the rest of that driver's panel interview thing?

Here: http://youtu.be/ECSKQbtjyK8

Well, we've had the whole night for people to find out, so no spoiler alert.   Congrats Lewis Hamilton, a deserved champion and race  winner.   Ultimately I don't think Nico's loss of ERS had any impact on the eventual outcome, Nico lost it at the start when Lewis overtook him and gained the upper hand in the race strategy calls.

Can't wait to hear what the driver line ups are going to be.   In particular for Button - I know it will not be 'fair' on Magnusson if he only gets one year and then has no McLaren drive, but Button deserves to retain the seat in my opinion, he's out-driven and out-scored Magnusson by a considerable margin - and in a critical race for 4th in the constructors championship against Force India, it was Button who showed up and delivered the points to secure 4th for McLaren.  Magnusson was not even on the radar.

Hamilton can look forward to a new contract with Mercedes now, BBC news (being late and behind the times as ever) said he might even get as much as £20m per year for this coming contract.  This is a brilliant example of a clueless writing, seeing as Lewis is already earning £20m as a base salary with Mercedes.   I wish the BBC would start employing journalists again.

What a great 2014 season - now focus on testing and all eyes forward for the 2015 season!

did anyone see the footage of button talking to Ron Dennis after the race, they were deep in discussion. Cant find a link in work though.

Although I think the donuts that button did at the end will be the last thing in F1 even though I dont want it to be

PS I was routing for rosberg...but im still happy hamilton got it

Respect to Rosberg congratulating Hamilton and admitting he was the better drive, not sure if Hamilton would have done the same. Button said him and Ron always have a discussion before and after race. He saved Mclaren 10's of millions apparenty due to him finishing ahead of force India but half of that i suspect would pay his salary alone. Happy for stevenage boy though

I'm glad Hamilton managed to bring it home - he's a fantastically exciting driver to watch.

Rosberg should get a lot of credit for choosing to stay out when the team had called him in, with a totally borked car. I'm sure other drivers might have sulked off to the pit lane and disappeared but he wanted to finish with his head held high - great attitude.

Season's over, so the axes are falling.

Ferrari get floated by Fiat and Marco Mattiacci gets sacked after about 6 months at the helm of the prancing horse  F1 team.   Maurizio Arrivabene (ex-Philip Morris) takes over.   Mattiacci gets moved back to a more senior role within the Ferrari non-F1 world, much like the position he had before being plucked out of obscurity to run the Maranello-based team.

Next info stop, the driver market.

Not enough time for anyone to change a team around, especially mid season when there is strict guidelines as to what you can do

Jean eric Vergne has been dropped by Toro Roso with no news as to who will be replacing him yet

Mclaren have had their first test with the Honda engine but had a few electrical problems and could only last 5 laps and not at race pace

Carlos Sainz jr will join Toro Rosso for 2015

Ferrari try to learn something from Mercedes, in a slightly unsubtle way!

https://twitter.com/miquelliso/status/537475098320449538/photo/1

Lol, well ermm

Jenson Button finally got married!