....of all this administrative bullshit. I'd love to know the agenda they are running to. Jas, I'm a convert to the theory you described last night and would love to know what they wish the end game to be.
At the end of the day, we play this game to have fun and to have such immense degrees of crap posted about me, you, Penfold, Smilodon and the whole DMR Council just leaves me with the feeling that we should hand them a few knives and leave them in the arena to fight to the death amongst themselves. It makes me feel that the efforts I put into this guild have been so very worthwhile.
I'm truly staggered by the lies/misinformation posted and it's been a real effort not to touch any of the Ban or Moderation buttons throughout this process. It just makes me want to go do something more fun with my time.
Bullcrap like this is a young man's game and I'm getting too old for this........
Its it
A..... They are off to make a guild alone
B..... They are standing up for Niel as hes a good friend ie want him back
Im more edging towards B with the style of the slush post but again if people will not talk we cant do anything about it
I need to get to work but we should have a chat later how we move forward.
IMHO we (you all) push Team-Speak as the place to discuss problems and issues.
WOW is our only really competitive game that demands a high level of expertise and co-operative play. So it's going to get more than it's fair share of issues. I can run about in Arma playing like a complete pillock and all I'll get it people laughing at me. But in WOW you have to perform or get called out for it. That's always going to create more 'events' like this. Plus I do think you had a clique within a guild for a while, which was the catalyst for most of your issues. That little group has moved on and hopefully with it the drama.
Ironically it might be good to run with Slush's rant thread and keep feeding reasoned and controlled responses. As long as no one feels it's got too personal again.
The major frustration for me at the moment is feeling that I am not able to defend myself (for fear of being seen as abusing admin powers by deleting a thread, or getting involved with a public flame war) - hence I have been very careful to not do any moderation myself and have left it to others to act as they see fit. I know many of the points in Slush's post have been flatly contradicted already, but I really hate the fact that I feel I cannot defend myself and need others to do it for me, whereas in reality I want to slam dunk him into the middle of next week and kick/ban him. But I know that would be unbecoming of an admin, so I'll simmer some more about the very personal comments he has made and continue to rely on others for defence.
Agreed.
You're in an insidious position but you have little choice but to sit back.
I've gone all power crazed and have made an ultimatum to all concerned. May be a little OTT but time to move this on.
PS. I've obviously had to make it aimed at everybody
Slush pops onto forum and reads the thread.
Slush then immediately sends PM to Neil, who is reading it now.
Oh the tangled webs that are weaved, it makes me just want to kick. :angry:
I really can't blame you TL this whole ordeal is just a pain in the a** and ye I might only be 22 and don't really have that much experience but I can't believe how people can be so retarded :angry:
Quote from: TeaLeaf;369155Slush pops onto forum and reads the thread.
Slush then immediately sends PM to Neil, who is reading it now.
Oh the tangled webs that are weaved, it makes me just want to kick. :angry:
Aye, I saw that. :ranting2:
Im trying to look at it from both ends ....Slush has managed to get himself in the tangled mess that Niel made. From the outside I can see he has some half valid issues but only due to him not getting the full facts. Possibly even being fed the wrong facts.
Fully agree with you TL as you and the restraint you have shown has been epic tbh.
If i could find a good thing to come from this i would say it shows how passionate people are about the game and how much they do enjoy it here most of the time. If people didn't like it they would leave without fuss or a single rant post "jinx for example".
One thing I have yet to see is Niel actualy taking you up on your offer to talk about his rant. He's backed himself into such a corner that Smilo's intervention was like a ray of sunshine to a guy that kinda thinks "I have been a bit of a plonker but im too proud to back down as its all got too big"
So much for work today "cough , sneaze, dribble"
Ps Good work on the post from sharpe about a web cam very speedy
I want to close the whole thing down with this last PM... If anyone wants to add anything ill be sending it after the raid tonight
Quote from: NielHi Jas, ( Penfold/Smilodon ...CCing you in as this time i am trying to do it right and behave....and again my apologies for about the 15th time... )
I and you know i can't directly see the DMR sub forum.......but you will of course realise that i am made aware of what is posted in there and this puzzles me.
There is a constant referral to things i posted as a "rage post" ( as if i was of unsound mind ) because i was "attacking" someone in public........yet TL's post where he put the boot in ( with twisted facts ) is not a "rage post" even though he was quite clearly attacking me in public....go figure :eyebrow:
Now, i know my posts were definitely "tasty" in part and i meant them that way, especially the last one as i had decided that someone needed a lesson in putting the boot in and it was rightly deleted as it should have been by the lovely Smilodon who has been the picture of impartiality along with Penfold throughout this silly saga ( though i am pretty sure he has turned the air blue a few times when he has been dragged into action to referee the "children" ) ........but my point was in the first instance how people are treated by a certain person ( for whom yourself and the other DMR officers are falling over yourselves to accommodate his "special ways" so long as they are not directed at you ....and you yourself admitted during our TS discussion that TL most definitely does have "special ways" and comes across as rude and abrupt on many occasions ) and then subsequently i was not happy with his far from the truth post on the DMR sub forum.......and in between our pleasant'ish 20 minutes or so conversation ended in a frosty final 5 seconds when your final request was clear.
Lot of twisting and turning going on and i will confirm for you in case you are unsure -i had nothing to do with Slush's post.......however he is accused of twisting the facts of matters he does not have full awareness of - which is true....he was not fully aware of dealings in the background, he had not asked me and i had not told him, i am not going to criticise his motives though as they were genuine - and then in your reply to him you definitely twist the facts of matters that you are fully aware of - as you are referring to a conversation between myself and you that i can remember clear as day.
I wish to raise a point regarding your recent reply to Slush - an unfortunate post and one i was too late in stopping even if i could- and i would have stopped it if i could have - he sent me a PM saying he was going to post something but by the time i saw and replied to it to advise against it...it was too late.
However, there is one part i really don't like amongst a pile of, in my opinion, half-truths and untruths.........and i quote your post:- " He quit TS and removed all toons in as big a rage as you would want to hear." This is simply not true and i really don't like this being posted there in this way. We had a nice pleasant conversation and it all went wrong when you said "Well...what i want you to do is apologise for tonight".......i was staggered for a couple of seconds and my reply was ( probably with some annoyance in my voice "You'll have my answer to that in about two minutes" and i left TS....logged into WoW and removed all my chars from DMR.............certainly not "in as big a rage as you want to hear".
What is really bugging me is this constant attempt to undermine anything i have had to say with "rage".....dirty tactics Jas and i'm not a fan and nobody that was present the night i quit the raid is fooled by it and this kind of thing is annoying them as much it is me........there's a constant denial of anything said/done wrong by TL even though the witnesses present at the time confirm it and agree with my actions at the time ( apart from yourself, Whytee, Hal who i am guessing somehow heard nothing untoward )......then there is the constant undermining and attempts to turn it into something else and it was "Niel's bad day of rage". More damage is being done by the dirty tricks and misrepresentation after the event than the event itself....not just in my eyes - other people are reporting to me their disgust. People are so annoyed i have nearly half the RGT raid independently sending me the details of what is going on in the DMR forum because they are not happy about it and how i have been/am being stitched-up.
Seems to me that the mission on the side of DMR officers is that "if you throw mud for long enough eventually it will stick" - whether this is an official or a sub-consciously directed mission i don't know..
In reality it seems that my situation has unplugged not just unhappiness with my treatment and the trawl of twists and misquotes made by the TL and now yourself......it is hard to fool people who were actually present last week as to the reason why i actually left the raid when the majority of those present agreed with my action.......but others have their own concerns that have been sitting hidden and they genuinely are thinking "me next" and they see no protection whatsoever from any structure in DMR or DMW........ it is very simple as it is "disagree with us and you are out......but we are all very democratic with a smiley face so long as you do as we say"...........i'm making a joke of it but i am being absolutely serious, this i how it is and how you and the other officers represent yourself in the way you act.
Anyway, do not worry for now as i am taking it up with you in private and trying to not generate more smoke from the situation on the forum.
I will of course be monitoring what is said about me and if i see anything that i consider to be dirty tricks or misinformation i'm not going to be too pleased.......i have tried to calm people down that are annoyed on my behalf ( and are also unhappy with how what happened to me could easily happen to them ) and asked people not to leave the guild and i think it is time it was put to bed.......but please do not attempt to bury me as part of any tactic of making it go away in a forum that i cannot respond on. Any more "twisted truths" on the DMR forum regarding myself WILL get a response from me on the main forum again as that is the only place open to me to do so.
Just remember - private forums are only as private as the readers of that forum make it........luckily for me most of the people who are close to the events are not buying into the smokescreen of misinformation being kicked out in an attempt to make the "management" look good and great guys and me look like a mental cripple with "rage" issues..........what is being peddled against me is neither fair nor true.
Shame it came to this but it did - its not fixable so time to make the best of what's left and move on.
Hopefully PM'ing about this stupid situation for the last time having just wasted another hour and a half of my life on this.....apologies for bad spelling and grammar ...it is late.
Regards
Niel
Niel
Thanks for taking your issues up in privet. If this route was taken in the first place i believe we could have a different outcome to the whole thing. As it is now with the stuff posted and splashed around forums I am in agreement its not fixable for the near future. Yes its a huge shame and not what any of us actually wanted.
You picked up the point about "Rage" If you feel that's not what happened then see it from my side. You first bang horns with TL in the raid and leave the raid. Ok we have an issue where what was said has wound you up. Its not a good situation but from time to time it happens in a pressured game environment the problem being you now just left 9 people who were happy..unhappy. Also it stalled the raid wasting peoples time.
After the raid we talked and I was looking to salvage something from what was already 1 non-rage. You even said to me that you had hit the limit and popped (i cant remember your exact words but you mentioned it in your first post) I felt you being able to vent frustrations to me would help diffuse the situation. Hand on heart i thought you had some valid points that could be looked into. My request for you post an apology was *only* for leaving the raid. The argument that went on i felt would need yourself and TL to deal with in a privet manner. The problem i had was what you did next......
In that frosty 5 secs "You'll have my answer to that in about two minutes" and i left TS....logged into WoW and removed all my chars from DMR" That Niel is possibly the most perfect definition of a rage quit. See it from my side. I have gone on ts to try and calm the waters, I have tried to hand out an olive branch to try and get this sorted and i get snubbed for it. If you had not done your non-rage quit or whatever we want to call it you would have had the rest of my request to take it up in a privet manner. The next thing that happened was a post from you regarding leaving the guild. The ironic part was you did exactly what i asked you did indeed say sorry for leaving the raid. If you had stopped at that point we would have had something to work with but its seemed you wanted to throw some muck around yourself . Your knee jerk reaction was to blame me for you leaving the guild for an unaceptable request........ Err no.. you managed that yourself with your non-rage
You talk about people having "special ways" we all have them.. We have some very interesting characters in the guild most I like some i don't. The fact being i don't air my frustration in public. Yes TL can be taken as abrupt, sarcastic, rude. We all can. The point for me is that I know hes not a nasty person and is more than gutted at himself if he upsets people.
There seems to be a message of Us vs You as in we are ganging up. Again it comes from misinformation what you are possibly not aware of is the efforts the officers/admins have put in to try and resolve this. Believe it or not even after all the crap that's flown under the bridge even now we still look at it from both sides.
My personal feeling is its all blown out of proportion. The problem being its difficult to forget what has been said. I am sad others have decided to get involved in a tangled mess but as you said we aint kids and people need to take responsibly for themselves
His comment:
QuoteI will of course be monitoring what is said about me and if i see anything that i consider to be dirty tricks or misinformation i'm not going to be too pleased.
Quotebut please do not attempt to bury me as part of any tactic of making it go away in a forum that i cannot respond on. Any more "twisted truths" on the DMR forum regarding myself WILL get a response from me on the main forum again as that is the only place open to me to do so.
makes out there's a conspiracy against him. I would jump on that. Actually, he's almost become secondary to the whole thing now.
I'm going to send him a PM back (as he CC'd me) saying that you're handling it but reiterating my point that I'm calling a day on it and am not prepared to let it go on anymore.
Thanks
My reply
----------------
Hi Niel,
You point exactly illustrates my frustration with this whole thing. EVERYONE is being accused of posting half-truths and misconceptions / miscontrued facts. Which is why the whole thing need to be stopped.
I'm not going to reply to this in full as it really doesn't concern me - I'll leave that to JAS.
However, I do find your comment
QuoteJust remember - private forums are only as private as the readers of that forum make it........luckily for me most of the people who are close to the events are not buying into the smokescreen of misinformation being kicked out in an attempt to make the "management" look good and great guys and me look like a mental cripple with "rage" issues..........what is being peddled against me is neither fair nor true.
personally quite insulting as Smilo and myself have done everything we can to make this open and honest. Thanks for that.
That said, I've posted this in open forum and I'll post it here for you now so it's clear to all.
Quote from: Penfold;369153........The original disagreement has now become secondary and is lost in this sea of half-truths, rumour and hearsay. This helps nobody.
For the sake of the others in DMR and for the wider community. This ends and it ends today and everyone moves on.
If ANYONE - and I don't particularly care on what side of the fence you're sitting - feels they can't move on then feel free to move out.
Please feel free to PM me (CC'ing Smilo) with your abuse to tell me how undemocratic I'm being but I'm looking to our Wider Community as a whole.
There has been nothing on the forum as yesterday and as far as I'm concerned everyone has had the say and counter-say.
Smilo and I will be carefully watching the forums and will jump on ANY post by ANYBODY which inflames this again.
I can't help what's happened and if other DMR'ers feel they need to join you and leave then so be it. What I will not accept is ongoing and continued sniping complaints and counter-complaints. We've all got FAR better things to be doing with our time.
--------
OK?
Of course the 'rude & abrupt' doesn't apply to Niel or the amazing comments he posted in the healer channel earlier that evening. Superb double standards.
Yes indeed.
It seems to have calmed down a bit and I'm still very much hovering over the ban hammer should anyone inflame it again.
I told Niel in no uncertain terms that I'm not going to let this go on ad infinitum and that if I need to start temporarily banning people I will. We're not having 100's of members put out by a few persistent, and frankly, irritating complainants.
I see Slush has started posting normally now so we may be getting somewhere.
Also, sorry if anyone feels we (Smilo or I) are encroaching on your domain - TL, Hal, Whitey and JAS in particular.
I just think it needed someone outside of DMR to step in.
Chin up my Pixie friends :)
Not at all Pen .. your help is very welcome
2 new PM's from Niel this morning... On the good side hes moved away from blaming TL and switched it to being my fault YaY!.... If ya want to see them ill post here as its the same old tired stuff officers are tuncs and you wanted me to go all along.
I just get the feeling he will not stop stirring in some way. Its how he is, I dont think he will be happy unless hes made us kick him. That way everything hes said becomes valid. He knows how to play dMw and knows the buttons to press and how far he can go.
Im rolling with it now but if i get more "your a bunch of ****" type pm's Ill be requesting he gets banned
Hes still on joining TS and its not a good atmosphere. It was mentioned he's not in the guild and should not be in wow TS but that just seems a bit wired and its a whole extra can of worms that i don't want to open yet
Well if it comes to it we'll just ban him as a persistent complainer.
He certainly shouldn't be in the TS Channel for Wow and Smilo has told him as such. We've said he free to join any other game stream and TS channel as that's open to all but as he's not in the guild, he can't join the Wow channel. Perhaps Smilo, you can remind him of that.
If he fails to stop or continues banging on about it then we will just have to ban him.
Let us know if you want Smilo to step on the TS thing and we'll leave it to you to come back to us about the PMs as needed.
As I'm in new rules mode I could post up some guidelines about TS, I'm not sure we have anything specifically about that. I did Pm Niel explaining that we don't expect people to spend their lives sat in channels for games they don't play with us but that occasional visits aren't an issue.
However up to this point I don't think we've thought of it as an issue at all. If someone pops into a channel for a chat with people even though they don't play that specific game we've not had issues previously. In fact we've encouraged it in some cases in the hope of getting people to join the game in question. I've certainly had several members pop into Minecraft TS channel and ask 'what this Minecraft thing is all about then?' So if Niel come into WOW TS to chat with old friends would we have an issue? I think it's only because there is still a feud going on, as far as he is concerned anyway, that we're wondering if he's in there bad mouthing us and trying to cause more trouble? That may well be the case. I think it's a tough one as we'd have to accuse him of something we don't know he's doing. I'd be inclined to let it run, make sure we all enter whatever channel we want regardless of who is in it and see what happens. Hopefully he'll get bored and wander off. If we find out he's been slagging any of us off them we have grounds to ban him from TS and ultimately the forum and community. Right now I think if we do anything we're back to being 'a bunch of power mad Nazi's that are hounding an innocent player who's done nothing wrong'. Just my thoughts.
I had a PM from Slush saying he was unhappy that I'd deleted his thread but at the same time addmitting that he'd been wrong in a lot of his assumptions for which he apologised. I just referred him back to the PM I sent to him and Niel explaining why it was deleted. He also asked specifically who asked for the original thread to be deleted. Me or Niel. I told him that several people had asked for various posts to be deleted and that I was respecting their privacy by not naming them but that as he already knew Niel was one of the people who asked for deletions. When I'd deleted all the 'offending' posts the thread was so mangled and disjointed that it made no sense at all, so I binned the whole thing and PM's Niel who replied that I'd done the right thing. So I hope that's an end to at least one of Slush's issues.
Quote from: smilodon;369303I had a PM from Slush saying he was unhappy that I'd deleted his thread but at the same time addmitting that he'd been wrong in a lot of his assumptions for which he apologised.
I'm must have missed Slush's apology to me, it's not in my Inbox :angry:
Re Puja & TS: the dude has been such a plank that I really do feel that our own feelings should also be accommodated. Given how far he threw his dummy from the pram, I'm not overly inclined to welcome him into the DMR TS channel as by his own choice he is not a member. If he wants to talk to friends, then he's welcome to go and use other community TS channels imo. We've bent over backwards already on this one I think.
If he visits to grab someone out of the channel to go elsewhere then I'd not have a problem, but I do not want us or any other DMR member to feel that they need to tread on eggs if he is in a channel which they are using for guild business. My 2 cents, sorry - you can start calling me a power mad Nazi now :P
Well the TS channels belong to the respective games they support so it's up to game leaders, officers etc. as to how they want to run their TS channels. I'd certainly not want people coming into Arma for a chit chat when we're in the middle of a complicated battle and I'm sure most other games wouldn't either. So whatever rules you all decide on are the rules for DMR. They don't have to be for every game?
We could make sure that as much as possible we're swamping the Wow channels. If he sees a channel with Smilo, TL, Whitey, Jas, Hal etc all in there he might feel less inclined to join or if he does less inclined to kick off.
.... or we could just tell him to feck off out of all DMR channels as he's not in the guild.
He said to me in a PM that Smilo did say he could use the TS channels
Quote from: NielHi Pen,
It was something i asked Smilo also yesterday...and he seperately wrote to me about removing the post thread in its entirety. He did say that i was free to use the TS.
TS is not a wow specific resource and is shared across all the activities.
Cheers
Niel
so to be fair (and if that's true) he is doing what he thinks he's allowed to.
I have no problem though if the GL decides it's disruptive and says he can't use that game-specific channel.
The exact wording of my reply to Niel re TS usage. Seems clear enough to me and should be to him. :eyebrow:
QuoteSorry I'm a bit tardy in replying but yes TS is for community members to use. So as we discussed please feel free to use it as well as the forums. The only 'gentlemen's agreement' we have is that people normally don't sit in channels for games they don't play. So I would expect the racing guys and girls would get confused if I came and sat on their TS channel. We have general chat channels like the Beer bar etc for people to just come together and chill.
I guess if people leave the community completely then we wouldn't expect to see them on TS, but that's certainly not an issue here.
Hope that's fine but of course Pm me back or catch me on TS if there are any issues.
Cheers
As much as i agree with power mad Nazi guy (and i do regarding being over accommodating) .... Its more about the people in guild that enjoy to group and play chat with niel. I think we need to see how it plays out
Quote from: smilodon;369313We could make sure that as much as possible we're swamping the Wow channels. If he sees a channel with Smilo, TL, Whitey, Jas, Hal etc all in there he might feel less inclined to join or if he does less inclined to kick off.
This..
Can you set the channels so admins don't show up?
Benny... the point is we want him to see us so hes less inclined to join. Tho i do think he would be more than happy to "lurk" and make everyone feel a bit "ewww this is wired"
Or do you mean to spy you trickster :norty:
Back to topic another PM this morning ... Same content "its not my fault" stuff
Im not going to reply anymore
OFFS.
Probably best to stop replying - although personally I'd PM him and explain that this has run its course and nothing new is being said in the PMs so you're going to stop replying to them.
I'd also clarify with him about the TS channel thing (whichever way you're going to swing with that) and say that if he causes dissent then it won't be tolerated.
Smilo/I are happy to talk to him from a forum/dMw side if that is needed.
Just know that we're here to support you JAS and just ask us if there's anything we can do to help.
Jesus, this is the thread that keeps on giving.
Bye bye Neil.
Anyone else who wants to stay/go then dive in. Neil stop being a twat. If you don't like the way the community is run, close the door on the way out. No hard feelings.
Lol Benny I love you.
Sent using Tapatalk. Please excuse any 'thumbs' typos!
Just for info, Niel came online on TS tonight about 40 mins after our raid and almost exactly 4 mins after whitey had left when it was only me and Zolena (Ayla) online. Feels almost like he was monitoring TS through the forum and joined as soon as all the "dangerous" officers was gone :/ Didn't do anything since we really haven't decided anything specific yet (I double checked with smilo :P ) but he suggested that I at least report about it of which I've now done :P
Quoteas soon as all the "dangerous" officers was gone :/
If the officers were dogs its not the ones that bark you need to worry about... Its the quiet one you stroke that walks off with your arm as a new chew toy :devil:
Niel is back again in the kitchen, i think a Pm from someone, me, Pen whoever that the WOW forums are for WOW members and his continued presence isn't in keeping with the idea of our TeamSpeak set up i.e. specific channels for players of specific games and some general channels for general chat.
I feel he's beginning to take the mickey now.
You might be the best person Smilo as you had the initial contact about the TS.
Definitely worth sending a PM, he's in there again now and I don;t want to be the first in there to say 'please leave'. It's a bit of a liberty.
Yes please Smilo if you're happy too.
Tanks mate
Sent using Tapatalk. Please excuse any 'thumbs' typos!
I'm a little concerned I might not have been 100% clear about TS usage to Niel in my previous PM. Specifically the sentence in bold is a little ambiguous. Our TS conversation wasn't so I'm not sure how unaware of the rules he actually is. However a TS conversation isn't recorded and we rely on memory, so he might not have understood my comments. Giving him the benefit of the doubt I sent the following. It's a bit long winded but I didn't want to come across as abrupt. I'd suggest that as of tomorrow we start enforcing this rule with kicks where appropriate. Flex those mighty TS Admin muscles, peeps.
QuoteNiel,
I'm sending out a quick PM to you regarding your recent usage of the WOW TS channels. I'm sure you'll remember our own TS conversation plus the PM I sent (quote below). So it's a little concerning to notice that you've been in the WOW TS channels today, yesterday and I believe at least Monday and Tuesday. As mentioned TS channels are for people who are playing the specific games within our community. Specifically The WOW channels and the Deadmen racing channels (on a Thursday and Sunday race night) are only for the signed up members of those games.
I think I might not have been very clear about that when I used the term 'The only 'gentlemen's agreement' we have is that people normally don't sit in channels for games they don't play'. With regard to games that require acceptance or membership i.e. WOW and racing and in the past SWTOR, Guild Wars 2 and other MMO's, we mean play with us within our guilds, squads or teams. We don't password them as we hope people will respect the spirit in which the channels are provided. For example I could if I chose enter any of the officer channels for any of the games (being a TS Admin). I wouldn't as I know they are provided for a specific purpose and for specific people. We provide general non game specific channels (Beer Bar)for people to just join and kick back and chat without being specifically tied to any game.
So I'd appreciate if you could leave the WOW TS channels to the WOW guild members. An occasional visit to ask a friend to move to another channel for a chat is certainly not an issue and we're happy for people who are interested in trying a new game to pop into it's channel to speak to existing players about that game. For example we've recently had quite a few people come to the Minecraft channel to ask about the game. Some go on to buy it and join us while others don't. This kind of occasional use is not a problem.
Hope you understand the way we try to run TS. Cheers.
Quote PM
QuoteSorry I'm a bit tardy in replying but yes TS is for community members to use. So as we discussed please feel free to use it as well as the forums. The only 'gentleme's agreement' we have is that people normally don't sit in channels for games they don't play. So I would expect the racing guys and girls would get confused if I came and sat on their TS channel. We have general chat channels like the Beer bar etc for people to just come together and chill.
I guess if people leave the community completely then we wouldn't expect to see them on TS, but that's certainly not an issue here.
In response to "This is all a conspiracy and you're all just being petty and vindictive," from Niel and after our long chat this evening I posted
QuoteI've asked for some guidance on this from the Guild Officers. The TS channel is named World of Warcraft - Dead Men Raiding. The Dead Men Raiding is the telling phrase. It's intention was and is to signify that the channel is specifically for the members of the DMR Guild to come and chat, raid, level etc. It is not a general channel for WOW players whether they are in or out of the community. It's assumed that anyone in the wider community who did play WOW with us would at least become a social member.
This is actually no different from any other game we support but I know that you'll decide how to interpret this rule for yourself, which is your choice of course. It's sad but it seems that to much has been said by people that can't be unsaid and that while an ex DMR member who left amicably may be welcomed back into the channel, obviously in this case there's too much bad blood. I'm sure you're under no illusion that there are several people who feel themselves the aggrieved and insulted party as much as you do. The rule has always been and continues to be that if someone leaves the Guild or is kicked from the Guild with bad blood they're not expected to use the TS channels.
I considered dropping in the comment that usually anyone who was thrown out of a game we support by it's Game Leader would automatically be thrown out of the community as well, but thought that might be a little pre-emptive at the moment.
Thanks Smilo for your ongoing work on this :)
For those not included on his latest PM:
Quote from: NielHi Smilodon,
Many thanks for the answer to the post lowere down.....both PM's attached- i am still bemused as you could tell earlier......bemused, but not at all surprised.
The "several" people who feel aggrieved ( though how it could be more than two i don't know .....as far as i know i have done nothing to offend Whitey or Hal - though i have heard things said by them that indicates i must have somehow by proxy ) - Only one person of the RGT officer group has spoken to me directly and THAT prompted me to leave the guild however it is dressed.........as for anyone else who feels aggrieved - as posted earlier on the forum, i am more than open to speak to anyone about anything.
So........and i have CC'd the DMR "officers" and Penfold......what am i allowed to do officially on TS ?
As explained earlier - i am a DMW member.....i contribute ....and TS is a DMW resource - the people i play with are in there playing a game that i am playing with them and they are members of DMW/DMR
If someone really really does not wish to speak to me surely they have the option of using one of the many free channels ?
This is a relatively polite answer to a PM and it's to you as you sent the message to me though of course i am lobbing it over you to the real source .......as lets face it - this is just games being played be people unwilling to do their own dirty work.
If you can clarify it for me the use of the DMW TS Server for DMW members- this IN/OUT/IN/OUT is a bit too hokey-cokey for me........and the rules so far are neither consistent nor fair and seem to be based purely on the bidding of a very small number of people and seems not to be based on "rules" but in a way that can only be classed as petty vindictiveness ( and that is about as polite as i can put it - not trying to be rude ).
Cheers
Niel
I note that he seems to be trying to be more polite now that he wants something. Be thankful for small mercies. Smilo asked my opinion last night on TS and I have provided it. I believe he also has opinions of the other DMR officers from that same 'session'. Over to you folks for a decision.
I have sent a PM to Pen,Smilo, and Benny (as hes totally impartial and slightly interested)
If you had to read this stuff about yourself then I think its understandable that we don't want to be around the guy. That causes problems in TS. I cant see a workaround with some strange rules on TS. I think its just better to remove him. Yes it will look bad on us ....
Posted a thread up in dMw Council that basically reiterates what we said last night and asks for a decision. If there was a way to resolve this I'd jump at it, but I'm inclined to think we're at a point where neither party should be trying to fix the unfixable.
I've had enough really.
I'd be half tempted to refund on a pro-rata the months left on his supporting member status and tell him to sling his hook (along with his supporters which he keeps banging on about if they want). Then ban him. If he keeps coming in TS then I'd ban him from that if we can or change out the password if necessary.
Yes it may look bad on us but frankly we can handle it.
Thats my 0.02 cents
Well something needs to happen. We now have a DMR guild split in half. Some people sit in the official WOW channels and another little group sit in the chill out room with Niel. I've made my thoughts clear, either we allow him back into the WOW TS channels or we remove him from the dMw community completely. What I don't think we can do is sit on our hands and do nothing.