Love her or hate her, no one can argue she didn't make some profound changes to the UK...............
Thatcher dies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155
There goes the night's telly.
I couldn't stand the woman or her politics but she did do right by the Falklands.
Funny tweet from Frankie Boyle..
"Looking forward to hearing about who found all the horcruxes"
It was all down to geography. I lived in the South so before Thatcher arrived I can just about remember piles of uncollected rubbish in the street, endless strikes, three day working weeks and the lights all going out right in the middle of Dr. Who and having to do homework by candlelight (sounds almost medieval). After Thatcher arrived I remember my Dad raving about how much work his business had, how many new trucks he was going to buy, being the first family to get a video recorder and a computer and enjoying a succession of exotic holidays to far flung parts of the world. I gather that for a great many people that wasn't the case at all. For me things went from bad to good but for many they went from bad to dreadful.
Still it's nice to know that everything is a circle and here we are back where we started in a deep recession. But this time it's the gas that's running out rather than the coal.
I'll miss her, she made politics interesting. Today's politicians are mind numbingly dull as are the politics they practice.
QuoteTony Gallagher Daily Telegraph editor tweets: We have closed comments on every #Thatcher story today - even our address to email tributes is filled with abuse
Not just me then.
Loathed the woman. My family, (not just me) were virtually destroyed by the policies she pursued, causing such high levels of unemployment that there were the riots in Liverpool and Manchester and alienating people so much that jumped-up pricks like Derek Hatton prospered.
Queen Maggie is dead, and to paraphrase one of her famous quotes "We have become a cadaver."
Yes, I remember the winters of discontent, strikes, power cuts. People have short and selective memories.
Thatcher was marmite, politically speaking but she did enormous good for this country.
As the education minister, she stopped the free milk for schoolchildren (a postwar policy for the malnourished) which she determined was a waste of money and unnecessary. This earned her the nickname "Thatcher the milk snatcher".
She never took a salary - something Major, Blair or Brown couldn't claim or any since.
She broke the union stranglehold on industry - while some claim that destroyed British industry, the claim doesn't hold water - you have only to look at what BMW went through trying to make Rover work before they sold it for a £1.
She got us out of a worldwide recession and paid Britain's national debt off turning the country from one of the poorest in Europe to the third richest in Europe - wouldn't that be nice now?
Rather than going cap-in-hand to the IMF for a bailout like the previous government, she went to Europe and demanded a rebate on our EU subsidy and GOT IT.
She ended government subsidisation of industry. While unpopular with the left wing, this removed an enormous burden from the tax payer. The removal of such subsidy caused failing industries to be shut down, which led to things like the infamous miner's strike. The miner's strike cause hardship and huge resentment and bitterness from those involved and colours opinions of Thatcher to this day.
Her downfall was the attempted introduction of the poll tax - it was a tax that every working member of a household would have had to pay. So if a house had 2 or 3 working adults they would all pay the poll tax. A house with only one working person only paid one share. Currently a house with 6 working adults pays the same council tax as a house with 1 working adult with 6 children to feed. People objected, but mainly young working people who were quite happy with the fact that daddy had to pay all the bills, and didn't care a hoot that family's with no working children had to pay the same as their dad. The red-tops at the time gleefully painted a story of how a lord in mansion would only pay the same tax as poor Doris at no. 23, glossing over the fact that the bloke in the mansion paid income tax at 60%...
She was never popular and never sought to be, but you always knew what she stood for - no about turns on policy, ever. British politics throws up very few giants, but in her record-breaking eleven years in the premiership - the longest continuous period of anyone since 1827 - Margaret Thatcher showed herself to be one such.
I don't know a great deal about her leadership. She was mostly in power before I was born, but I don't really get what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine Tony Blair getting that level of hate despite leading the country into a series of wars and introducing tuition fees...both rather unpopular. I'm not sure how that compares to closing coal mines and selling off industry.
I'm not saying I support privatisation or making whole communities unemployed. I'm just not really sure why she in particular gets focused on whilst someone who lied to parliament and set the country up for a huge recession is relatively popular and stood a better chance of winning the election than his successor. I wouldn't mind all this if there were debates about what from their politicians to do and what not to that would ultimately be a good thing, it could engage more people in politics (something that is badly needed). Unfortunately it seems to have lead to a marmite reaction spilling out across the web with no real substance.
We all have our views on the thatcher years, i dont have as much experience as some on here being only 6 1/2 when she came into power and only being 18 when she left, but you knew where you were with her and i respected her a lot for that.
If they ask for volunteers to line the route tomorrow in work ill be first in line... im shining my 8 medals as i type
While its a shame that anyone dies, I feel that the Thatcher years did a lot to screw over an age demographic... Say the under 40's.
Council houses, Privatisation of transport and utility companies... it all paved the way for a lot of our troubles today which the youth are struggling with.
A mixed bag really, I'm too young to have a strong opinion on her so I'll sit on the fence. The trains are rubbish now though, and that's (partially) her fault.
Did all the economic benefits she created outweigh the hardships suffered by some? Tough question, and I suppose it depends firmly on who you are and what you did at the time. Had she not come into power we could very well have developed into a fully-blown socialist state. Whether this is a good thing or not is just about impossible to answer, but it's an interesting 'what-if'...
I was 19 when Thatcher took power.
I haven't reacted to her death in the way i thought I would, which perplexes me.
I have a massive firework and a bottle of bubbly that have been ready to go for many years.
I hated the old dragon, she stood for everything I am against and against everything that I would stand for.
but, I'm afraid that I am unable to celebrate the death of an old lady.
I don't care that she's dead, I just feel nothing.
the only piece I've read in the past couple of days that comes anywhere near to expressing what I feel is this, by Russell Brand of all people
M (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu)aybe I've hated for too long and my hate has run out, I just don't know.
This letter was posted on BBC South East and makes a point of what the country was like before Thatcher.
QuoteBaroness Thatcher stood for a fairer Briton, that is fair for all, and that was what she gave us. Unfortunately there are many who are unable to see the bigger picture, they only see what affects them directly, not what is beneficial for the nation as a whole, hence the divisions.
When Margaret Thatcher came to power the country was all but bankrupt, Dennis Healy had been to the IMF, cap in hand begging for a bailout, (a bit like the recent Greece bailout), there were many very strict spending cuts imposed by the IMF as a condition of the loan, in short the nation was on its knees, yes the legacy of a Labour Government. She lifted us out of this mess and restored the faith of our foreign trading partners, putting the GREAT back into Britain and restoring our position on the world stage , something no other politician of her day, or indeed since, would have be capable of doing.
It’s ironic that Labour had financially brought the nation to its knees, twenty years or so later, along comes another Labour government, and what a surprise, yes they did it again,
many thanks “Gormless Gordonâ€, how frustrated Maggie must have felt watching him making the rich exceedingly richer and the poor very much poorer. Ironic, isn’t it, the so called socialist party always ends up shifting wealth the wrong way.
Then of course there is the “something for nothing brigadeâ€, or the very vocal that take all and contribute nothing. These were the very ones protesting at the so called “poll taxâ€, the fairest tax of our time, the only thing wrong about it was that it caught this sector. Had she not been stabbed in the back by a pack of political animals, these people would have been defeated and it would have clearly shown that rioting doesn’t get you what you want. The ballot box is the place for that.
As for the Miners, well they got their comeuppance, they always went on strike for what they wanted, with complete selfish disregard to the effect on trade union members in other industries, they actually went on strike during WW2, there was a miners' strike at the Betteshanger Colliery in Kent in 1941 or 1942, again Wales in 1944, then of course we had the 3 day week, miners again. Their actions destroyed both individuals and small businesses all over the UK, so please forgive me if I have no sympathy. However, I do have a long memory. Despite all the bitterness shown by the miners over the pit closures, there ultimate closure was inevitable, they were making unsustainable losses, millions of pounds daily.
The trade unions totally destroyed the British motor industry, an industry that had been world class in the fifties and sixties, extreme left wing unionist actions destroyed the faith of investors in UK industry consequently the biggest part of it folded. The extreme left wing union leaders of the 1970’s, such as Arthur Scargill of the miners, and Red Robbo (Derek Robinson a member of the British Communist Party), of the British Leyland Longbridge motor plant, cared only about their power and not a jot about their fellow unionists or their country. Thank goodness Maggie Thatcher put paid to these extreme unionists and all those like them with her union reforms, these reforms so popular that they were later copied by almost all countries in the civilised world along with her privatisation reforms.
Happily, we now have a number foreign motor manufacturers making motor vehicles here in the UK, those car plants are the most efficient outside of Japan, and in some cases the quality of the product is considered of a better quality and more reliable than the comparable product made in Japan. All made possible because the traditional trade unions have been shut out, the only trade union allowed is one set up in the plant, that meets with management regularly to take part in discussions involving a whole raft of issues, including management decisions. No “Them and Usâ€, no power hungry union bosses. A legacy of Thatcherism!
The measure of a good leader is the opinion of those on the outside looking in, they have nothing to gain or lose. Margaret Thatcher had the respect of the whole world, she didn’t just change the United Kingdom she changed the way the whole world was thinking, no other leader in history has ever influenced so much positive thinking.
I have travelled to many places around the world, when people realise that you are British, they invariably, at some point in the conversation, bring up the name Margaret Thatcher, for whom they have nothing but praise, they then go on to say I wish we had such a leader. Believe it or not, this happened over and over in Buenos Aries, after first apologising for the invasion of the Malvinas, something I found quite incredible!
What made her great was her sense of fairness coupled with reality, not to forget her drive and enthusiasm.
I don't think we disagree that we were in serious trouble in the 1970's. The worst possible option would have been to carry on and do nothing. If we'd done that I really believe we'd be living in a very different UK to the one we now have, recession or not. Thatcher was the only politician who stepped up and offered to actually do something. Heath, Wilson and Callaghan had done nothing to solve the growing problems and Foot and Kinnock would have done nothing either had they had the chance.
The problem was that what Thatcher did to fix our broken country was utterly brutal, wiped out whole communities at a stroke and decimated the lives of many, many people. While it clearly did the job, the cost to many of us was huge. I guess we'll never know if there was a more sympathetic and balanced way to revolutionise the UK. I suspect there probably was. But at the time she was the only potential Prime Minister that was willing to do anything, so she was what we got. I really don't think the Labour party of the 1970's and 80's was even an option for us, they were so completely broken.
And without Thatcher I don't think there would have been a Blair either. We picked him because for eleven years we'd had her.
Quote from: ArithonUK;369892This letter was posted on BBC South East and makes a point of what the country was like before Thatcher.
Could you supply the link to this letter? I cant find any reference to it on their website.
Thatcher being dead doesn't bother me much, being norwegian. Her politics did little or nothing to affect us.
... until now.
The right-wingers here are as close to taking power as they've been for years, and in their policies you hear the ghost of Thatcher and the very much alive Reinfeld of Sweden. One old conservative and one new, both with policies that were devastating to the welfare state (though I can see why it was necessary for Thatcher to take action).
The difference is, Norway is not in trouble. The only reason they want to do what they're about to do if they win is to line the pockets of their friends the corporations. Their talk of privatization is just code for selling profitable government-owned companies to the highest bidder while getting stuck with the non-profitable ones.
... so yes, Thatcher is dead, but in Erna Solberg, she lives on...
The lady's not for turning.
No opinion towards her, granted she made an impact, I don't like her nor do I despise her. But even if I did, I would complain but wouldn't hurl abuse toward someone who's recently died.
Quote from: TommyGuner;370050The lady's not for turning.
No opinion towards her, granted she made an impact, I don't like her nor do I despise her. But even if I did, I would complain but wouldn't hurl abuse toward someone who's recently died.
How perfectly epitomised :thumbsup2:
Was Major elected as prime minister or did he do a Gordon Brown? (my memory is hazy)
I don't have much of an opinion as I wasn't really around / remember, but can't really blame those who do although I hope they are peaceful! Some just join the bandwagon for the sake of it
I'm pretty sure he won a General Election. Neil Kinnock was supposed to be leading the polls, and blew it.
Or something like that....
Quote from: Snokio;370071Was Major elected as prime minister or did he do a Gordon Brown? (my memory is hazy)
With the riots against the poll tax, the tories decided they could oust Thatcher and blame her, despite the poll tax being unanimous government policy at the time, so basically made her the scapegoat and forced her resignation. There was then a bunch of in-fighting as to who would get the job, but John Major was eventually selected in 1991 as the "least offensive" choice (having rejected Hesseltine and others) and he then won the next election in 1992.
Quote from: TutonicNeil Kinnock was supposed to be leading the polls, and blew it.
Neil Kinnock, by that time, was a laughing stock and never led the polls. (See headline of the time below) His abiding image was from 1983, when he did a press conference on Brighton beach and managed to fall in the sea on camera. This became part of the intro sequence for "Spitting Image" for the following decade. Between 1987 and 1992 the only poll he led was an internal one, as he had to fight Tony Benn for the Labour leadership during that period.
I felt sorry for him because of the media he got, until he took a job as an EU commissioner in 1994 - basically a highly paid retirement - which ended four years later, when the whole commission was forced to resign over corruption charges, although Kinnock had done nothing wrong.
John Smith brought the Labour party back from the brink after the failure of the 1992 elections and made the party a serious contender for the next election. He died in 1994 of a sudden heart attack and left the party to Tony Blair & Gordon Brown, who didn't have much love for each other, but agreed to team up for the 1997 election.
See, now you know politics!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Sunkinnock.jpg)
Neil Kinnock wasn't popular..
thanks :thumb: