As reported here for win 7 and 8 users for the 1st year
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30924022
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2825116/free-at-last-after-windows-10-consumers-wont-pay-for-updates-or-upgrades.html
QuoteIt marks a change in strategy from Microsoft's previous policy of charging for major updates, and could help avoid a repeat of the relatively slow uptake of Windows 8.
I love this quote, it was always the price that stopped people upgrading and nothing to do with the car crash of a UI.
The truth is people use Windows for one reason, they have to. What people really want is to own a computer/laptop and use applications or play games etc. Windows is and always has been the thing they have to have in order to have what they want. It's the price we pay to get access to apps and games and suchlike. Increasingly we don't need PC's and laptops, we have tablets and phones. I'm sure this scares the **** out of Microsoft as they know full well they don't have a 'loyal customer base' in the way Google, Apple etc do.
I'll probably do what I did with Windows 8. Grab it early for peanuts, or if the report is right for free. Then I'll spend a few quid and a few hours getting rid of all the Metro/Bing/Cortana/Windows App Store rubbish and get to a vanilla desktop operating system that works and allows me to run the applications I want. Then I'll go back to utterly ignoring Microsoft until Windows 11.
I'll use it if I can change the UI to an exact copy of W7, same goes for all the settings locations and all that, plus the removal of the rubbish smilo mentioned.
Otherwise, I'll wait for DX12 to be a minimum requirement, and seeing that we're still using DX9/10, its gonna be a while.
Anyone feeling brave?
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso
already using it
As the disclaimer says
QuoteRemember, trying out an early build like this can be risky. That's why we recommend that you don't install the preview on your primary home or business PC. Unexpected PC crashes could damage or even delete your files, so you should back up everything
So I'm waiting for the full version and the comprehensive reviews that confirm it has fixed the car crash that was Windows 8. Alternatively if like Windows 8 it requires 3rd party apps to fix it then I might well miss this one out completely.
Windows 8.1 + Display Fusion + Start is back - all the Metro and Microsoft Store Apps nonsense = a very nice looking OS that still works well.
working fine for me and it it goes belly up for some reason I just reinstall win 7 as only windows is on my ssd.
Quote from: Sneakytiger;394942working fine for me and it it goes belly up for some reason I just reinstall win 7 as only windows is on my ssd.
How are you finding it? Can you switch off the Metro interface completely . If so, is it easy, and does it stay off?
Anyone installed it on a VM to try? I might give that a go to take a look at it. What's the currently recommended and free VM software?
Quote from: TeaLeaf;395010Anyone installed it on a VM to try? I might give that a go to take a look at it. What's the currently recommended and free VM software?
Oracle VirtualBox.
I use virtualbox for my vm's but no not installed on a vm yet.
Thank you both! I'll give it a whirl.
ive had it running for a while on my asus n55sf and it runs well. Havent had too many issues, mainly gfx drivers (now sorted) and av programs that didnt work (dont like defender), now using nod32 and its good..rough round the edges but good
edit:
forgot to mention that the sub doesnt work with the laptop under this build, but hopefully soon as there seems to be a few sound issue reports going in
More details and signup for free upgrade offer:
QuoteFree Upgrade Offer*
Great news! We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year! And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time â€" for no additional charge. Sign up with your email today, and we will send you more information about Windows 10 and the upgrade offer in the coming months.http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwindows.microsoft.com%2Fen-gb%2Fwindows-10%2Fabout&ei=TC0IVengFNGO7Qbp0IG4Dw&usg=AFQjCNHS0XHtXBQ39XmHJkDpGACRrlsMpA&sig2=Yj6ictwEl3aw_atgOwZk0g&bvm=bv.88198703,d.ZGU&cad=rja
can you upgrade your computer as long as your os hard drive doesnt change? Or will putting a new gfx card in the computer null and void it as the device has changed (slightly)?
You can always backup the file windows creates, and migrate it to the new OS.
That's how it used to work anyhow. Upgrades are wonky, its like random numbers really. You might end up having to phone them, and from personal experience it might be better talking to a wall.
Thought I'd sign up just to keep in the loop on the info.. I'll let you know if anything interesting comes up.
Have had it running on my laptop for a few weeks now, seems stable enough. Also having the option to revert back to my original win 7 on boot up is quite reassuring should anything go wrong, presuming that the rollback will work. Liking the interface a lot more that win 8, but then again I prefer windows 95 to windows 8 ...
Will probably go for the upgrade on my laptop but not my gaming rig, at least not just yet
Windows 10 release date July 29th
The thing keeps popping up on my PC also, so how is it going?
Well its not released yet Pete, so you can choose to upgrade or just ignore it :)
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Windows insider testers are apperently able to download a RTM already, can't find it tho o.O
Quote from: kregoron;401281Windows insider testers are apperently able to download a RTM already, can't find it tho o.O
I've only got the technical/insider preview available on my MSDN.
Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
Only a few days to go now.
I'm probably going to stay away from it for now. Or at least until I see what the general reception is like. My main issue is that Microsoft seems to be rebranding Windows as a service and not just an OS.
As consumers we develop relationships with Tech companies. Many people buy into Apple. They have iPhones, iPads and Macs and run Apples OS's on them. They have iTunes, iMail, Apple's cloud services, their photo storage etc etc. Apple becomes their go to tech provider both for hardware, software and services. Others, such as myself, go the Google route. We buy Android phones, tablets and Chromebooks, install Google Chrome on our PC's and laptops, run Gmail, Google+, Docs, Photo's, Drive and use all the other Google goodies. We have a relationship with these companies. And we have that relationship through choice.
But I do not have a relationship with Microsoft. They are not a company with whom I want to have anything to do with. They have a long history of creating poor quality products, no interest in the security of their software or the security of my data and consistently put their own interests above those of their customers. The only reason I have anything to do with Microsoft is that I need their OS to play PC games on my desktop machine and likewise run Adobe products. Windows is an OS, a desktop, a program launcher and a file browser. And that's all. I have no more interest in them than I do in my BIOS manufacturer. I am very keen to keep things this way. Microsoft have burnt far too many bridges for me to come running back to them and their new OS as a service plans. So I'll have to see how easily I can strip out the crap they seem keen to add to Windows such as Cortana, their apps store etc etc. I still want to buy, download and install applications completely separately from Microsoft's store. Depending on to what degree I can keep Windows 10 as an operating system and remove, hide or ignore any 'service' they try to shove at me will dictate whether it gets onto my PC, regardless of whether it's free or not.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/17/windows-10-forced-automatic-updates/ this is interesting. If they break the OS with an update, we all get broke!
I've used Win 10 a fair bit in recent months as part of my job. Its good, better than 8.1. I'll be upgrading (and then rapidly restoring an image if they stuff it up).
In total agreement regarding the 'fencing off' Microsoft are moving towards. They can clearly see how Apple get users ensnared and they want a piece of that action.
Sadly, until developers manage to break away from DirectX en-mass we are stuck with Windows for the for forseeable future for our gaming needs.
Valve are making big strides with Linux and the new API they're involved with - this is probably our best shot at MS-free gaming.
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Quote from: smilodon;401290So I'll have to see how easily I can strip out the crap they seem keen to add to Windows such as Cortana, their apps store etc etc. I still want to buy, download and install applications completely separately from Microsoft's store. Depending on to what degree I can keep Windows 10 as an operating system and remove, hide or ignore any 'service' they try to shove at me will dictate whether it gets onto my PC, regardless of whether it's free or not.
Agreed. Too much crapware is being bundled. Let's hope some stuff can be turned off via the usual "Windows features" menu.
As for the forced updates, MS can stick them where their sun doesn't shine. We can always edit our host file, or host our own DNS server with all MS rubbish pointing to 0.0.0.0, and if that doesn't work; there are other shady options one can pursue. If their executives think they can do whatever they want on my machine, they are in for a brutal reality check.
i tested windows 10 since the 1st test release and binned it last month. The issue that I had is that my laptop speakers just wouldnt work, but the headphones did. Which was an issue as it was used for blu-rays/itunes/games when away from home(not only me liked to listen to the music either)
i raised a few tickets with MS over this but only got back a "we will look into this". I wasnt the only one with this issue, you can google and there are a few of us out there.
Tried all sorts of drivers and then went back to the default win 7 ones, still no joy (athough headphones worked fine all along). went back to windows 7 OS and used exactly the same drivers and it worked first time.
Apart from that it seemed to run quite well. it was nice and smooth and loading times from boot were slighty better than win 7. Didnt try any games though. But for normal office/surfing it was good.
So i will wait as long as i can before i upgrade anyof my sytems for free
I can kind of understand why they've done it - botnets are a big problem, and a huge amount of pain could be avoided if all the Windows machines in the world were up to date in terms of security patches.
Surprised there's no option to switch it off for folks who know what they're doing, though. We don't all have massive fibre connections - I really don't want my OS to start downloading a patch while I'm in the middle of a game of DOTA :/
Quote from: albert;401291http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/17/windows-10-forced-automatic-updates/ this is interesting. If they break the OS with an update, we all get broke!
The system closely resembles the setup MS added to windows 2012 r2, where servers not in a domain with WSUS or similar are forced by standard to get updated with the automatic maintenance.
Which can be turned off with a simple reg key...
Quote from: Gorion;401293Agreed. Too much crapware is being bundled. Let's hope some stuff can be turned off via the usual "Windows features" menu.
As for the forced updates, MS can stick them where their sun doesn't shine. We can always edit our host file, or host our own DNS server with all MS rubbish pointing to 0.0.0.0, and if that doesn't work; there are other shady options one can pursue. If their executives think they can do whatever they want on my machine, they are in for a brutal reality check.
So your actually disabling MS updates all together, disabling any hope that your pc will be protected against vulnerabilities and other security issues.. just because you got a nag with MS.
And if your gonna down the host file road, don't bloody point to 0.0.0.0, point to 127.0.0.1
And people wonder why vira and malware are spreading like wildfire...
Quote from: sulky_uk;401294i tested windows 10 since the 1st test release and binned it last month. The issue that I had is that my laptop speakers just wouldnt work, but the headphones did. Which was an issue as it was used for blu-rays/itunes/games when away from home(not only me liked to listen to the music either)
i raised a few tickets with MS over this but only got back a "we will look into this". I wasnt the only one with this issue, you can google and there are a few of us out there.
Tried all sorts of drivers and then went back to the default win 7 ones, still no joy (athough headphones worked fine all along). went back to windows 7 OS and used exactly the same drivers and it worked first time.
Apart from that it seemed to run quite well. it was nice and smooth and loading times from boot were slighty better than win 7. Didnt try any games though. But for normal office/surfing it was good.
So i will wait as long as i can before i upgrade anyof my sytems for free
Guessing its a driver issue, remember its not MS that creates the drivers for the quadzillion amounts of hardware out there, manufactures do, and your still running a piece of beta software, so to expect every piece of software runs flawless, is kinda off the track.
Quote from: Tutonic;401295I can kind of understand why they've done it - botnets are a big problem, and a huge amount of pain could be avoided if all the Windows machines in the world were up to date in terms of security patches.
Surprised there's no option to switch it off for folks who know what they're doing, though. We don't all have massive fibre connections - I really don't want my OS to start downloading a patch while I'm in the middle of a game of DOTA :/
I kinda agree, 99% of people with a computer on the internet, has no idea what their doing, so why give them the option, the biggest security issue out there, is the human factor.
The option is there, its just not visible with a UI based feature. which is kinda great, as that might deterent most people from disabling updates all together.
On a side note, the updates use BITS, so its not like it just goes mental and download a zillion updates and maxes out your connection.
Quote from: kregoron;401297So your actually disabling MS updates all together, disabling any hope that your pc will be protected against vulnerabilities and other security issues.. just because you got a nag with MS.
And if your gonna down the host file road, don't bloody point to 0.0.0.0, point to 127.0.0.1
And people wonder why vira and malware are spreading like wildfire...
According to my hosts, I'm using loopback. No idea why I wrote 0.0.0.0
As for viri, malware and other crap, there are other programs which can take care of, and prevent that stuff. Some common sense also helps.
If MS takes away your choice of what you want to install on your system, what other recourse is there? They don't give a flyingF about what their customers think. It's my system, I decide what I install.
If it wasn't for DX, I wouldn't even bother. That's all I need from MS, not their laughable security applications, nor their blocky UI. If they're catering for the common folk only, then such a system is "fine" up to a certain limit (security updates) as they have no idea how to prevent getting infected. But when enterprise and other users come into play, it's a different dimension to what you can pull off.
This has got alarm bells ringing in my school environment.
http://www.howtogeek.com/219700/what-is-wi-fi-sense-and-why-does-it-want-your-facebook-account/
***...this bit concerns me
QuoteIf someone connects to your network with a Windows 10 device, they can choose to share the connection details with all their friends â€" at least those friends using Windows 10. You can choose to opt out (http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/how-to/wp8/connectivity/how-do-i-opt-my-network-out-of-wi-fi-sense) of this by changing your wireless network name (http://www.howtogeek.com/168379/10-useful-options-you-can-configure-in-your-routers-web-interface/), or SSID, to end with _optout. In other words, if your network name is currently “HomeNetworkâ€, Microsoft would like you to change the name to “HomeNetwork_optout†to opt out.
Nobodys having my info..if my firends want to connect to my network, it will be ones that visit my house and i get the plastic password thing out of the router for them to use....STUPID IDEA
Have I read this right?
If I allow person A to connect to my WiFi then person A can effectively share my private login details with anyone else in the world (technically) anyone of whom in turn could rock up and connect to my network. Unless I actively change my SSID name, assuming it works and Microsoft that bastion of security doesn't find the whole WiFi Sense service has been horribly hacked.
I'm no lawyer but the ramifications of Microsoft being the pipeline to spew my private log in details all over the Internet seem enormous. How would Microsoft respond to the claim that because I allowed person A to connect to my WiFi they in turn, maybe unwittingly, passed that private information onto the 5000 Facebook 'Friends' they have as a direct consequence of using WiFi Sense, one of whom logged into my network and stole a £1m worth of data from me? Thanks Microsoft, a cheque will be fine. :blink:
I must have read it wrong. Otherwise I can see a W10 ban or MAC authentication being the order of the day in my house.
Most ISPs do exactly this.It seems the same as BT FON or such like, opt in you use anyone elses PC as a Wi-Fi AP but doesn't share your credentials, you use a network protocol like radius to link back to an authentication server. I can't believe MS would break standard authentication methods. It would just eat up your allowance.
I believe historically MS called it Internet Connection Sharing.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
Doesn't add up, surely Microsoft can't be that daft?
Quote from: OldBloke;401486This has got alarm bells ringing in my school environment.
http://www.howtogeek.com/219700/what-is-wi-fi-sense-and-why-does-it-want-your-facebook-account/
Remeber it only works with PSK based wifi and some Guest setups
Quote from: sulky_uk;401488***...this bit concerns me
Nobodys having my info..if my firends want to connect to my network, it will be ones that visit my house and i get the plastic password thing out of the router for them to use....STUPID IDEA
remember sharing is disabled by default. (atleast in the beta)
Quote from: smilodon;401508Have I read this right?
If I allow person A to connect to my WiFi then person A can effectively share my private login details with anyone else in the world (technically) anyone of whom in turn could rock up and connect to my network. Unless I actively change my SSID name, assuming it works and Microsoft that bastion of security doesn't find the whole WiFi Sense service has been horribly hacked.
I'm no lawyer but the ramifications of Microsoft being the pipeline to spew my private log in details all over the Internet seem enormous. How would Microsoft respond to the claim that because I allowed person A to connect to my WiFi they in turn, maybe unwittingly, passed that private information onto the 5000 Facebook 'Friends' they have as a direct consequence of using WiFi Sense, one of whom logged into my network and stole a £1m worth of data from me? Thanks Microsoft, a cheque will be fine. :blink:
I must have read it wrong. Otherwise I can see a W10 ban or MAC authentication being the order of the day in my house.
You only share your own stored networks. It doesn allow them to share the profiles, atleast not in the beta builds.
You have to actively mark a checkbox, before sharing the profile, so if your friend shares your wifi, he does so on purpose, same as if he just hands of your PW.
Tho i find the feature rather disturbing, as you all state it poses some threats.
The clients that connect to your wifi using a profile over wifi sense, apperently doesn't have access to local resources, only internet, or so microsoft claims.
Thank i run guest ssid with no access to anything but the internets.
come on guys think about it, MS are not about to give the whole world access to your pc, thats what we have passwords for.
do you really think MS is about to give cyber terrorists free reign over peoples pcs?
THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! WERE DOOMED.
Well if you read the article carefully then that seems to be exactly what they are doing. Again correct me if I am wrong but I have a home network with WiFi. You come and visit and I give you my WiFi password so you can log your laptop/tablet etc. into my WiFi and use my Internet connection. For whatever reason, and I have no control over this, you check the share button on WiFi Sense. Your device then automatically shares my private WiFi details with every one of your Facebook friends, all your Outlook Email contacts and all your Skype contacts, almost none of whom I know. Now in theory anyone of them can (assuming they know where I live) connect to my WiFi and use my Internet for anything they like (stealing music, sending death threats to the Pope or downloading child porn) and I have no idea they are doing it and no real way of stopping them unless i change my SSID name and Microsoft actually honours the opt out.
Crucially how many innocent people are even going to know this feature exists, especially if they're not Windows users (i.e. Apple and Linux folk). How many fewer even know what an SSID is. We're talking about people whose password for everything is probably 'p4ssword'.
The main kicker is that with things like BT Fon the owner of the modem has to turn it on. What I don't understand is that it seems that as the Network owner, unless I mangle my SSID name, I have zero control as to how my private log on details are going to be shared around the Internet. That I'm giving responsibility for them to the cretins at Microshite is a real bummer as well
Quote from: Sneakytiger;401515come on guys think about it, MS are not about to give the whole world access to your pc, thats what we have passwords for.
do you really think MS is about to give cyber terrorists free reign over peoples pcs?
THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! WERE DOOMED.
It's MS, you never know.
Giving access to someones network puts their entire network at risk. Not sure how many people use vlans or different subnets for their home networks. So yeah, this is quite the bomb.
These guys have continually released software with multitudes of security issues. Heck, they couldn't even ensure that their "security" application worked. Would you really trust a company with that track record?
Quote from: smilodon;401520Well if you read the article carefully then that seems to be exactly what they are doing. Again correct me if I am wrong but I have a home network with WiFi. You come and visit and I give you my WiFi password so you can log your laptop/tablet etc. into my WiFi and use my Internet connection. For whatever reason, and I have no control over this, you check the share button on WiFi Sense. Your device then automatically shares my private WiFi details with every one of your Facebook friends, all your Outlook Email contacts and all your Skype contacts, almost none of whom I know. Now in theory anyone of them can (assuming they know where I live) connect to my WiFi and use my Internet for anything they like (stealing music, sending death threats to the Pope or downloading child porn) and I have no idea they are doing it and no real way of stopping them unless i change my SSID name and Microsoft actually honours the opt out.
Crucially how many innocent people are even going to know this feature exists, especially if they're not Windows users (i.e. Apple and Linux folk). How many fewer even know what an SSID is. We're talking about people whose password for everything is probably 'p4ssword'.
The main kicker is that with things like BT Fon the owner of the modem has to turn it on. What I don't understand is that it seems that as the Network owner, unless I mangle my SSID name, I have zero control as to how my private log on details are going to be shared around the Internet. That I'm giving responsibility for them to the cretins at Microshite is a real bummer as well
Yeah i read the article. And i don't disagree with you m8, yet the feature has to be manually enabled.
If it works as intended, it doesn't give access to any local resources. (no unclear how that works, guess ill have to test it out)
Tho feature wise, i find it completely useless.
Quote from: Gorion;401521It's MS, you never know.
Giving access to someones network puts their entire network at risk. Not sure how many people use vlans or different subnets for their home networks. So yeah, this is quite the bomb.
These guys have continually released software with multitudes of security issues. Heck, they couldn't even ensure that their "security" application worked. Would you really trust a company with that track record?
This is no less more insecure then giving someone your psk.. If someone wanted access to your wifi, and got just a tiny bit of skills, with a modern with a decent CPU, its takes so little time to break into a wifi, yes even WPA2.
IT supposedly doesn't give access to any local resources.
MS is not worse then any other vendor/software company other there. Their all just as bad. Atleast they try to keep their platform updated and security holes closed. Show me one company that has a shiny flawless track record.
Correct me if I'm wrong but MS is gonna need a mighty big server room to keep billions of ssid's on file,I mean all the private info of governments and everything else is gonna be made public,people will be selling your private info to the highest bidder,bring on wifi sharing ,let's burn down the Internet while we're at it,btw can u tell the sarcasm in my voice.lol
Quote from: Sneakytiger;401526Correct me if I'm wrong but MS is gonna need a mighty big server room to keep billions of ssid's on file,I mean all the private info of governments and everything else is gonna be made public,people will be selling your private info to the highest bidder,bring on wifi sharing ,let's burn down the Internet while we're at it,btw can u tell the sarcasm in my voice.lol
sarcasm.... you littllllleeeee :P
Quote from: Sneakytiger;401526Correct me if I'm wrong but MS is gonna need a mighty big server room to keep billions of ssid's on file,......l
Sneaky with all due respect you really should actually 'read' the articles before you comment. I'm not sure you even understand what the issue is?
Yes Microsoft are planning on doing exactly that, they
will collect and store the SSID and password for all the WiFi networks that Windows 10 users connect to (assuming they check the WiFi Sense button). They will then pass that data in encrypted form to the Windows 10 users that the original person has shared it with i.e. Facebook and Outlook contacts. This is a concern because if I let you use my WiFi network I am potentially sharing it with all your Facebook friends and Outlook contacts as well. Microsoft are sharing access to my personal WiFi network with all your contacts. I don't know your contacts and maybe I don't want to give them all access to my Network. That's my concern.
As someone who works in the 'Big Data' & Analytics sector, I can assure you that Microsoft could easily keep everyone's WiFi details stored.
Quote from: Tutonic;401536As someone who works in the 'Big Data' & Analytics sector, I can assure you that Microsoft could easily keep everyone's WiFi details stored.
They say that Google has mapped most of the world and Google Maps is 20 petabytes (21 million gigabytes of data)! I have Google Maps on my Nexus 5. God knows how I've managed to fit all that on my mobile phone :blink:
You're talking volumes of data so large, that things like Hadoop are being invented almost on the fly to cope with it all.
i think u failed to sense my sarcasm smilo.
now i've looked into this and come up with what i can see being a safe solution:
first off wifi sense is disabled by default,and you can completly disable it if u wish.
i can see where MS are coming from they want to make it easier for people do be able to share a wifi connection.
i'm sure this has been looked into,lets stop panicing and let cooler heads prevail,btw i read that wifi sense was orginally planned for win 8.1
Sarcasm! ;)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3280[/ATTACH]
Quote from: Sneakytiger;401541first off wifi sense is disabled by default,and you can completly disable it if u wish.
No it is not. The crucial point I'm making is that it's effectively not in the control of the WiFi owner. This is not about a person who connect to their own home WiFi network and chooses whether to enable WiFi Sense and share it with Facebook etc. Of course that is up to them and perfectly Ok if they, as the WiFi Owner, choose to share their connection.
What I have a concern about is what happens when I as a person who does not use WiFi Sense allows another person (friend, family member, client) to temporarily use my WiFi Network. If that other person enables WiFi Sense they can now share MY WiFi details with all their friends and contact. And there is no way I can stop that or have it set to off by default, without hacking my SSID name. I am reliant on the other person to not share my WiFi details.
A perfect example of this happened on Friday. I was visiting TeaLeaf and he kindly connected me to his home WiFi. I gave him my phone and he typed in the password. His WiFi details are now saved into my phone but I have no way of either seeing the password or sharing his WiFi details with any 3rd party. He gave me access and only me. Had I been using a Windows 10 phone..... Ok that's obviously completely ridiculous...... had I been using a W10 laptop, I would now be able to share TL's wifi with everyone on Outlook assuming I was stupid enough to use that as my primary email provider. Unless TL starts messing about renaming his SSID his WiFi privacy is compromised.
You say it's about Microsoft letting people share a wifi connection. I'm happy and delighted for people to be able to share
'their own' WiFi connections with the whole world if they like. What I'm not happy about is Microsoft creating a system that allows people to share
'other people's' wifi connections. There really aren't too many 'cooler heads' at Microsoft and it seems the decision has already been made.
I do have a simple solution though. If you're running W10 I just won't let you log into my WiFi. Simple solution for me but a bit of a bummer for you.
simple answer dont use windows 10, use linux.
And so it begins (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/)
Windows forced driver updates conflict with Hardware vendors own update software.
I do like the idea of Automatic Updates, it's fine for the 90% of PC users who are computer illiterate. But as with most things 'Microsoft' it should have been thought out more carefully. Driver clashes like this were always going to be an issue and they really should have been moved to an 'install if you like' or 'use your hardware manufacturers update application' choice. With this system we seem to be stuck with both. I wouldn't mind dumping my Nvidia and Razer updates and sticking with Microsoft Update except those apps also come with other useful features. I'm not sure if Microsoft is any more or less likely to send out crappy driver updates that the manufacturer. Nvidia has been known to release drivers that completely break games etc. But a lot of users will have both the hardware manufacturer utility app and the forced updates running at the same time and are then in line for messy crashes like the one described in the article.
I'm guessing that Microsoft will just push ahead, effectively making driver updates a Microsoft only option and force hardware vendors to change their apps and just offer the utilities but not the driver updates on Windows 10 machines. I imagine the manufaturers won't be chuffed about loosing control of the release of drivers for their own products.
to be honest i prefer to wait to update my drivers, i've had trouble before, so i'll only update when i have to.
so will we only get certified MS drivers then?,i mean i'd actully prefer to only have to get my driver updates from 1 place instead of nvidea,acer,gigabyte etc.
I never update any driver through WUpdate. It's caused so many issues in the past. Only OS and MS Application specific updates will I accept.
I just bought a Pro version of Windows 8 for a tenner off G2Play so my Home edition on my main PC isn't subject to this tomfoolery!
That G2a key is probably an MSDN key mate.
Nope it was a retail key and applied perfectly.
Well my home pc is hard wired to the network so personally I'm not too fussed about this WiFi sharing stuff. If I did use WiFi then I would be so I can understand the concern.
With all the data mining rumours of win 10, I'm tempted to permanently run peerblock with the MS blocklist on my machine.
I will probably update to 10 asap. I'm a software developer so was never interested in developing windows store apps with win8 as there was never any demand but with win 10 being free that might change this time. My home pc is for work first and foremost and gaming secondary.
Quote from: smilodon;401565No it is not. The crucial point I'm making is that it's effectively not in the control of the WiFi owner. This is not about a person who connect to their own home WiFi network and chooses whether to enable WiFi Sense and share it with Facebook etc. Of course that is up to them and perfectly Ok if they, as the WiFi Owner, choose to share their connection.
What I have a concern about is what happens when I as a person who does not use WiFi Sense allows another person (friend, family member, client) to temporarily use my WiFi Network. If that other person enables WiFi Sense they can now share MY WiFi details with all their friends and contact. And there is no way I can stop that or have it set to off by default, without hacking my SSID name. I am reliant on the other person to not share my WiFi details.
A perfect example of this happened on Friday. I was visiting TeaLeaf and he kindly connected me to his home WiFi. I gave him my phone and he typed in the password. His WiFi details are now saved into my phone but I have no way of either seeing the password or sharing his WiFi details with any 3rd party. He gave me access and only me.
Some mis-information here :)
1) Once a WiFi password is shared, the WiFi is no longer exclusively yours by the simple definition of sharing.
2) You gave TeaLeaf you're phone and as such your phone can no longer be entirely trusted. I know TL is a nice guy, but he could have also installed some malware.
Root the phone, anyone can read the WiFi passphrase.
If you really want to own the WiFi then apply MAC or IP address filtering on it, or secure it through some other means like the WiFi itself goes nowhere and run a VPN over it.
Quote from: ReddFourWell my home pc is hard wired to the network so personally I'm not too fussed about this WiFi sharing stuff
Anyone these days could get a micro computer (like say a RPi) and plug it in.
A friend of mine laughed at my WiFi saying his CAT5 was secure, I soon proved him wrong.
A physical cable should be treated the same as a WiFi passphrase.
Now while I don't agree with what Windows 10 is doing by default, it does have the rather nice side effect about teaching people real security.
Quote from: Twisted;40167111) Once a WiFi password is shared, the WiFi is no longer exclusively yours by the simple definition of sharing.
2) You gave TeaLeaf you're phone and as such your phone can no longer be entirely trusted. I know TL is a nice guy, but he could have also installed some malware.
Root the phone, anyone can read the WiFi passphrase.
Fair point. I'd still maintain there's a clear real world, practical difference in adding your WiFi login to one friends device and that same friend sharing the log in with 1000+ Facebook friends. My neighbour has given me the code to their home alarm so I can pop over and let their dog out for a walk if they are ever away. They in turn know where we hide our spare front door key. I'd argue we would both be less than chuffed if I posted their code to Facebook or they did likewise with our key location.
My concern really is only that Microsoft seem to think that the only devices connected to my WiFi are my own. I can decide to use WiFi Sense or not so there should be no problem, right? What they don't seems to have considered or care about is the fact that I might want to give a friend access to my WiFi but not have them share the login credentials with the whole world and store them on Microsoft's servers. That's really my concern.
New info:
“The networks you share aren't shared with your contacts' contacts. If your contacts want to share one of your networks with their contacts, they'd need to know your actual password and type it in to share the network.†The exception, of course, is that if you shared your actual password with a friend, they could then use Wi-Fi Sense to share login privileges with all of their contacts.
I noticed last night that Samsung pushed an update to my slate that forced automatic windows updates to on! Interesting given tomorrow W10 starts rollout. I may just set my pcs to download but don't install tonight. Or no updates to be safe.
I see nothing too bad about the Wi-Fi thing, in the end its the same as sharing your Wi-Fi details with a friend. The fact that inherently untrustworthy and ruthless social media morons called Facebook change their privacy policies to make them so complicated regularly is the concern I have.
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Quote from: albert;401691I may just set my pcs to download but don't install tonight.
That's my default setting. Download and then ask me.
hopefully this will make sense of it
http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-wifi-sense-password/
Quote from: Twisted;401671Some mis-information here :)
1) Once a WiFi password is shared, the WiFi is no longer exclusively yours by the simple definition of sharing.
2) You gave TeaLeaf you're phone and as such your phone can no longer be entirely trusted. I know TL is a nice guy, but he could have also installed some malware.
Root the phone, anyone can read the WiFi passphrase.
If you really want to own the WiFi then apply MAC or IP address filtering on it, or secure it through some other means like the WiFi itself goes nowhere and run a VPN over it.
Anyone these days could get a micro computer (like say a RPi) and plug it in.
A friend of mine laughed at my WiFi saying his CAT5 was secure, I soon proved him wrong.
A physical cable should be treated the same as a WiFi passphrase.
Now while I don't agree with what Windows 10 is doing by default, it does have the rather nice side effect about teaching people real security.
In order to do that someone has got to break into my house. If they've done that then I've got much larger concerns than them connecting to my network.
Oldie originally posted that it was going to be a headache for his School IT department. I can imagine a load of kids on W10 laptops sharing the schools WiFi credentials all over Facebook. I envy them not keeping that one under control.
Quote from: smilodon;401700Oldie originally posted that it was going to be a headache for his School IT department. I can imagine a load of kids on W10 laptops sharing the schools WiFi credentials all over Facebook. I envy them not keeping that one under control.
Again that would require the wifi to be based on PSK, which i would find just as troubling security wise, as you have no control with the passphrase then.
Quote from: ReddFour;401698In order to do that someone has got to break into my house. If they've done that then I've got much larger concerns than them connecting to my network.
I have kids!
It's summer holidays and my kids have friends.
Luckily they're aged 5-7 and currently no trouble, but when they're teenagers....... well, I know what I did as teenager with computers and networks.
So, what say we have a party at ReddFours place. I'll bring one of these (https://www.pwnieexpress.com/product/pwn-plug-r3penetration-testing-device/) (actually I'm too cheap for that, but it gives you an idea)
My view is that everyone is a potential threat!
Of course you could be a complete hermit in RL and only socialise via the internet and can ignore the above :ph34r:
I've un-friended everyone and re-named my wi-fi 'Drug Squad'
anything else I need to do?
Quote from: Twisted;401707I have kids!
It's summer holidays and my kids have friends.
Luckily they're aged 5-7 and currently no trouble, but when they're teenagers....... well, I know what I did as teenager with computers and networks.
So, what say we have a party at ReddFours place. I'll bring one of these (https://www.pwnieexpress.com/product/pwn-plug-r3penetration-testing-device/) (actually I'm too cheap for that, but it gives you an idea)
My view is that everyone is a potential threat!
Of course you could be a complete hermit in RL and only socialise via the internet and can ignore the above [emoji14]h34r:
No mate. You just need to grow a pair and let anyone know if they screw with your stuff there will be severe consequences ;)
Quote from: Blunt;401708I've un-friended everyone and re-named my wi-fi 'Drug Squad'
anything else I need to do?
install Linux and buy a PS4 for gaining!
Quote from: BBCBut on the eve of Windows 10's release, Microsoft told the BBC it had added an option to defer all Home Edition updates, security fixes aside.
There remains, however, an incentive to buy the Pro or Enterprise versions, as their owners will be able to control which specific features are added.
Well, that's one thing addressed.... ish.
Looks like it's already downloaded to my machine. I'm too chicken to install though.
Upgraded without a hitch. UI is vastly better than Win 8.1, some changes to get used to but it's all good so far :)
Any issues with nvidia? Or all good?
Sent from my Nexus 5
First attempt at running the Nvidia installer hit an error saying there was already an install running (Windows Update, I assume). Rebooted, ran the installer again, all good.
Upgraded 3 out of 4 machines.. So far no issues with drivers. My surface 3 pro has gained a incredible performance boost.
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Actually.. Good plan to uninstall start8 before upgrading.. Made one of my rigs go completely mental with quadrouple start menus. Easy solved tho
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No sign of mine yet :sad:
Installed and running. The UI is a lot better than 8/8.1 and is also a lot quicker. No issues wth nVidia drivers here - worked first time. The Edge browser is rubbish though.
So far so good.
@OldBloke, if you really want to try it you can install the proper ISOs from MS website. Just make sure to do an upgrade install not a clean one as the clean install only works after the first upgrade install. This is how I got mine. No need to wait for your current OS to update you.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
I also used ReddFour's link to start the update - worked just fine.
I'm on it. Thanks guys.
Only criticism so far seems to be web browsing is a lot slower. At first I thought it was just the new Edge browser but Firefox is doing the same.
Quote from: ReddFour;401747Installed and running. The UI is a lot better than 8/8.1 and is also a lot quicker. No issues wth nVidia drivers here - worked first time. The Edge browser is rubbish though.
So far so good.
@OldBloke, if you really want to try it you can install the proper ISOs from MS website. Just make sure to do an upgrade install not a clean one as the clean install only works after the first upgrade install. This is how I got mine. No need to wait for your current OS to update you.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
i tried the mediacreation tool with my first rig (forgot to reserve on that one) it changed my key and i was unable to validate :/ atleast the rollback took like 2 mins :)
Up 'n' running and so far all's good.
Well I already have to take it all back. Just restarted the PC and the nVidia driver has been uninstalled and Windows has overwritten it with its own driver. Stuck in low resolution with no way of changing resolution. Could reinstall the nVidia driver but doesn't seem much point if Windows is going to overwrite it again.
That's the price you pay for being a day one adopter I guess. I'll reinstall Win 7 tomorrow.
Update: Just tried to reinstall the nVidia driver and just get a driver installation failed error message. Back to 7 for sure now. This OS isn't ready for release.
FYI - make sure you disable the DVR feature in the Xbox app, or everything gets locked to 60fps.
Have you tried a clean uninstall of your Nvidia drivers ReddFour? My installer complained at first, but installing the Windows drivers and rebooting made it happy again.
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There are some very recently released Nvidia W10 drivers that might do the trick. They're available through the Nvidia Gforce App
Also Display Fusion (multi monitor software) and StartIsBack (new version) both apparently work in W10. Hurrah!
Only software i havent been able to get working is my original sid meiers colonization.... Ill live for now
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Tried everything but the display is broken. There is a rapidly growing thread on the official nvidia forums of people having various problems including the same as me. Judging by that that thread no one has a solution.
This official forum post by another user is pretty much exactly my problem
QuoteRunning 353.62 on my GTX 970 and stuck with 1 of 3 monitors with a resolution of 1024x768. Used DDU to try a fresh install of the drivers and still no luck. Used to have to boot to Safe Mode to even see my desktop, but I fixed that part. Device Manager says "Windows has stopped this device due to an error" under my GTX 970. This was never a problem in Windows 8.1 so I know it's a driver problem. No amount of reboots fixes this.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/860152/geforce-drivers/official-windows-10-353-62-game-ready-display-driver-feedback-thread-7-29-15-/12/
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Can you guess what it is yet?
Three links people need to read before using MicroSuck Winblows 10. I'm personally against everything this release introduces, including ads, forced updates, Wi-Fi password sharing, encryption key sharing and uploading in clear text, and all the rubbish they pulled out of their arses. All the flippin crayon coloured boxy flatness included.
Link1 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privacy-settings/)
Link2 (https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/)
Link3 (http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2015-July/026136.html)
I'll be sticking with W7 for the time being. When Dx12 becomes a necessity for a very good game, I'll dual boot a W10 with everything MS "extra" related chopped out. And yes, we already have loads of data out there cause of Google, but do I want to add more, including unencrypted crypto keys? No.
/whale music ON
and breathe....... :roflmao:
There will be problems with any new release. From whomever. I'm happy to wait a month or three until the fuss blows over and initial teething problems fixed, you're under no obligation to upgrade, so relax!
Auto updates off and host file updated to point at loopback!
Quote from: Gorion;401794Three links people need to read before using MicroSuck Winblows 10. I'm personally against everything this release introduces, including ads, forced updates, Wi-Fi password sharing, encryption key sharing and uploading in clear text, and all the rubbish they pulled out of their arses. All the flippin crayon coloured boxy flatness included.
Link1 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privacy-settings/)
Link2 (https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/)
Link3 (http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2015-July/026136.html)
I'll be sticking with W7 for the time being. When Dx12 becomes a necessity for a very good game, I'll dual boot a W10 with everything MS "extra" related chopped out. And yes, we already have loads of data out there cause of Google, but do I want to add more, including unencrypted crypto keys? No.
Lets chill down, nobody is forcing you to upgrade.. its a choice..
I thought you just hated MS in general...
Lets break it down..
Wifi sense.. PASSWORD is NOT shared, and the feature is optional, and is not enable by default.
Forced updates.. Use Win10Pro, then you get the options you want.
Encryption... Its not like you keys are stored in a document in plain text, they can be viewed by accessing a page yes, where they are shown yes, but i bet they are stored in a encrypted format. Else DONT use the feature... Use something else to encrypt your drives, problem solved.
Privacy issues, sooo Go have a look at Apple and Google's privacy agreements and you will probably die. You can BTW opt out whenever you want.
Quote from: albert;401796Auto updates off and host file updated to point at loopback!
how :)
Quote from: kregoron;401797Lets chill down, nobody is forcing you to upgrade.. its a choice..
I thought you just hated MS in general...
Lets break it down..
Wifi sense.. PASSWORD is NOT shared, and the feature is optional, and is not enable by default.
Forced updates.. Use Win10Pro, then you get the options you want.
Encryption... Its not like you keys are stored in a document in plain text, they can be viewed by accessing a page yes, where they are shown yes, but i bet they are stored in a encrypted format. Else DONT use the feature... Use something else to encrypt your drives, problem solved.
Privacy issues, sooo Go have a look at Apple and Google's privacy agreements and you will probably die. You can BTW opt out whenever you want.
I actually do hate MS in general, however I didn't hate them before and W7 was brilliant, and so were XP and 2000 back in their days. Lately it's all bad decisions, and it always gets forced down our throats via the new non-backwards compatible Dx. You know, I honestly thought that Satella coming on board would be a good thing; couldn't have been any more wrong.
Wifi sense is on by default, and it is shared automatically. Sure, they don't know the actual key, but they still get access, and if you turn it on, your friend might have his on, before or after you provide access. Encryption key is sent to your onedrive, and they share your onedrive contents with other paying/advertising companies/partners. Do you recall where your encryption key is stored? That's right, the same onedrive which its contents are shared. In the meantime, they still haven't fixed the goddamed folder permission issues.
Having some other company violate your privacy does not make it fine for others to do the same. And, you can actually bypass Google's data collection vacuum by disabling some stuff. Oh yeah, and to disable MS data gathering, you need to buy a server or enterprise version.
And, even if you buy 10pro or enterprise, you will still get force-fed updates after a few months. You can postpone them, but you can never cancel them.
Yes, I can bypass all this rubbish. Does it make it fine? No it doesn't. Commoner Joe won't know how to bypass same rubbish, and I don't follow the "I'm alright Fyou Jack" theorem.
And the literal cherry on the cake, Monthly/Yearly subscriptions to have ad-free Solitaire? Really, how about we bend over next? Wait, do we need to pay for a subscription to do that too?
I'm not foaming from the mouth. However I am deeply disappointed. We can agree to disagree I guess, no harsh feelings intended.
Quote from: Gorion;401799I actually do hate MS in general, however I didn't hate them before and W7 was brilliant, and so were XP and 2000 back in their days. Lately it's all bad decisions, and it always gets forced down our throats via the new non-backwards compatible Dx. You know, I honestly thought that Satella coming on board would be a good thing; couldn't have been any more wrong.
Wifi sense is on by default, and it is shared automatically. Sure, they don't know the actual key, but they still get access, and if you turn it on, your friend might have his on, before or after you provide access. Encryption key is sent to your onedrive, and they share your onedrive contents with other paying/advertising companies/partners. Do you recall where your encryption key is stored? That's right, the same onedrive which its contents are shared.
Having some other company violate your privacy does not make it fine for others to do the same. And, you can actually bypass Google's data collection vacuum by disabling some stuff. Oh yeah, and to disable MS data gathering, you need to buy a server or enterprise version.
And, even if you buy 10pro or enterprise, you will still get force-fed updates after a few months. You can postpone them, but you can never cancel them.
Yes, I can bypass all this rubbish. Does it make it fine? No it doesn't. Commoner Joe won't know how to bypass same rubbish, and I don't follow the "I'm alright Fyou Jack" theorem.
And the literal cherry on the cake, Monthly/Yearly subscriptions to have ad-free Solitaire? Really, how about we bend over next? Wait, do we need to pay for a subscription to do that too?
I'm not foaming from the mouth. However I am deeply disappointed.
Ive now upgraded 3 machines to win10pro build 10240, on none of them are the wifi profiles shared as default. the Feature might be activated, but no it does not share the profiles. Again.. it actually doesn't give access to anything but the internets. But if you give your passphrase out, you blip out of luck if they decide to share that.
Have you actually looked at the privacy settings in windows 10? Its teh most granular settings ive seen, from anyone with this kind of access to your data.
When both XP and 2k launch there was just as many issues and concerns as with 10, XP was a horrible OS the first year.
You can postpone em for 8 months, else grab KB3073930 which enables you to remove and hide most unwanted drivers and updates.
Solitaire.. seriously? Do people actually use that.... Grab it somewhere else then...
No hard feelings at all m8
QuoteI actually do hate MS in general
Not exactly a subjective review then.
Don't install it if you feel that strongly, there are plenty of alternatives.[/COLOR]
Quote from: Penfold;401798how :)
Disable all updates, and add lines for the windows update urls to the \windows\system32\etc\hosts file.
I'm applying my usual rule for new OS's
'Wait for SP1 till you grab it'
Quote from: Tutonic;401804Not exactly a subjective review then. [/COLOR]
This isn't a review. It's actual w10 "features".
And just found more sketchy stuff. Doesn't this equate to me using my bandwidth to seed updates to other users? This was on by default too.
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Also note that by default, Apps can use your camera, microphone, sms/texts, calendar, and access your personal info. In addition to apps automatically sharing and syncing info with wireless devices which didn't even pair with your pc/tablet/phone.
The rule of Microsoft does dictate that W10 is going to be a decent release
W10 - good
W8 - bad
W7 - good
Vista - bad
XP - good
ME - bad
98Se - good
98 - bad
95 - good
I think for anyone using Windows (or any OS for that matter bar Linux) a crucial step is to turn off the rubbish. So for W10 it's all the Bing, Cortana, Live Tiles, Windows store, forced update, Live account login...... nonsense. Basically de Microsoft your Windows install. Once it's stripped back to just an operating system it's not at all bad.
Quote from: Gorion;401853This isn't a review. It's actual w10 "features".
And just found more sketchy stuff. Doesn't this equate to me using my bandwidth to seed updates to other users? This was on by default too.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3289[/ATTACH]
Also note that by default, Apps can use your camera, microphone, sms/texts, calendar, and access your personal info. In addition to apps automatically sharing and syncing info with wireless devices which didn't even pair with your pc/tablet/phone.
Yes updates can be sent between PC's to increase the effective bandwith, its P2P like a ton of other systems out there and its disablet on metered connections. So no it will not ruin your data package.
As for the apps, have you ever tried looking your Iphone/android apps? you have any idea what they got access to?
Quote from: smilodon;401854The rule of Microsoft does dictate that W10 is going to be a decent release
W10 - good
W8 - bad
W7 - good
Vista - bad
XP - good
ME - bad
98Se - good
98 - bad
95 - good
I think for anyone using Windows (or any OS for that matter bar Linux) a crucial step is to turn off the rubbish. So for W10 it's all the Bing, Cortana, Live Tiles, Windows store, forced update, Live account login...... nonsense. Basically de Microsoft your Windows install. Once it's stripped back to just an operating system it's not at all bad.
Not that rubbish list again, its wrong, hence its fail.
W10 - good
w8.1 - good
W8 - bad
W7 - good
Vista - bad
Xp prof 64 - bad (yes its different as its built on a different NT core then XP)
XP - good
ME - bad
2k - good
98Se - good
98 - bad
NT - ok
95 - good
List is not even complete.
List is also a matter of opinion, i for one hated XP in any form or fashion the first two years.
Dont kill Cortana, shes hawt and fun! or something..
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No you're completely wrong.
NT and 2K don't count they were not consumer OS's,
8.1 was an emergency fix for crap OS that just made it a bit less crap, effectively trying to turn it back into Windows 7
XP prof 64 also not a standard consumer build. Also I've never heard of it and suspect you're just making it up....... which is my standard response when anyone proves me wrong!
So I'm right and everyone else is wrong :crazy:
Quote from: smilodon;401859No you're completely wrong.
NT and 2K don't count they were not consumer OS's,
8.1 was an emergency fix for crap OS that just made it a bit less crap, effectively trying to turn it back into Windows 7
XP prof 64 also not a standard consumer build. Also I've never heard of it and suspect you're just making it up....... which is my standard response when anyone proves me wrong!
So I'm right and everyone else is wrong :crazy:
I ran 2k for years.. 2k was a brilliant consumer os, when you just learned how to use it.
8 and 8.1 does not share the same kernel nor revision number. 8.1 is just as much a upgrade to 8, as 7 was to vista. Neither way the list still fails, no valid manipulation can fix that.
Windows XP prof 64 bit was not based on the same code as normal xp. Tho it was possible the most horrible os MS ever built, worse tehn vista, with even less drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition
yet its no to be mistaken for Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, as that was built for itanium, but still belonged to the XP line.
soooo now you own me a pie, a big one! Cake for everyone is on smilodon, just because its him! :D
Quote from: kregoron;401856As for the apps, have you ever tried looking your Iphone/android apps? you have any idea what they got access to?
Cyanogen with Privacy Guard.
Apps can request whatever the hell they want. They only get what I want to give them.
Example, my install of QR Droid. Doesn't need most of the stuff it asks for, apart from the bloody camera does it? And here's how I fix the whole "All your mobile data are belong to us" BS:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3291[/ATTACH]
These sort of restrictions apply to every single application on my mobile. With the only exception being anti-theft, and anti-viral software, simply because they are a necessary evil.
PS. You cannot disable W10 updates unless you go enterprise. If you still hack the updates out, I read that they can kick you out of their update program. If this still counts, I have no idea as I have heard it some time ago.
Regarding win2k, simlo is kind of right there. It was aimed as a server OS. And 8.1 can be listed down as a big ass service pack to fix the unprocessed garbage w8 was. XPx64 was a server 2003 which included some XP client features..
Quote from: Gorion;401875Cyanogen with Privacy Guard.
Apps can request whatever the hell they want. They only get what I want to give them.
Example, my install of QR Droid. Doesn't need most of the stuff it asks for, apart from the bloody camera does it? And here's how I fix the whole "All your mobile data are belong to us" BS:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3291[/ATTACH]
These sort of restrictions apply to every single application on my mobile. With the only exception being anti-theft, and anti-viral software, simply because they are a necessary evil.
PS. You cannot disable W10 updates unless you go enterprise. If you still hack the updates out, I read that they can kick you out of their update program. If this still counts, I have no idea as I have heard it some time ago.
Regarding win2k, simlo is kind of right there. It was aimed as a server OS. And 8.1 can be listed down as a big ass service pack to fix the unprocessed garbage w8 was. XPx64 was a server 2003 which included some XP client features..
Great you locked down your phone.. but that was not the point, my point was that android/iphone/whatever are just as intrusive as win10 privacy wise.
within a month, there will floating hacked/custom win10 iso's around with locking apps that can restrict the data too...
If your read my previous post, MS released a KB, that allows you to hide updates, nobody knows how MS wants to enforce, tho yes blocking out certain security updates for more then 8-12 months, can get you blocked from receiving updates, and use certain services. I bet MS took this road, as after that long without security updates, your device can't be trusted by MS anymore..... which makes valid sense.
No win2k was never marketed as a server platform, prof consumer platform. and it had full consumer functionality...... w8.1 use different code then 8, and had a different core, the difference on those two, was just as big as between vista & 7.
win xp prof 64 was realeased as a prof consumer OS and shared codebase with 2003 yes, but it was marketed as a consumer os.
Ding! Ding! End of round 1.
Just to weigh in on a completely pointless argument....
Win 2000 was released in both Client and Server editions (and an Advanced Server if I remember correctly...).
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Quote from: TeaLeaf;401879Ding! Ding! End of round 1.
Awwww i haven't even finished my pie :D
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Quote from: Tutonic;401880Just to weigh in on a completely pointless argument....
Win 2000 was released in both Client and Server editions (and an Advanced Server if I remember correctly...).
Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
Indeed and a datacenter server edition.
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Now my issues with nvidia drivers seem to be resolved, I'm really liking this OS. I agree that some of the privacy stuff and the p2p updates should be disabled by default and require you to opt in especially the p2p updates.
I'm on BT Infinity unlimited but my parents are on the capped one. It's outrageous to think that MS think it is acceptable by default to use people's bandwidth which might be capped.
I have it all switched off now. Other than that I'm impressed. I hated Win8.
I upgraded my Samsung ATIV slate, forgot to remove Custom Shell, no problems it was disabled after upgrade and I uninstalled it. 2 important apps from Samsung wouldn't install, not MS problem.
So far seems the same as Windwos 8.1 to me. Which is good :)
A while back Microsoft started a campaign against Google targeting the way Google collects 'signals' about their users activities, likes, dislikes, purchases, sexual fetishes, interests, location, fruitless searches fro the name of the girl you fancied in high school so you can see if she grew up to be as hot as you still imagine she might be etc and then provide relevant results, timely information and creepily targeted advertising. Basically they trashed the whole Google business model, which is 'tell us about yourself and we'll show you stuff you want to know. We'll also show you ads you might actually be interested in which will fund the whole thing and means you don't have to pay us a penny for GMail, Docs, You Tube, Android, Maps, turn by turn navigation etc.' Microsoft called this evil process being 'Scroogled by Google'. They also claimed that Microsoft would never do such a dreadful thing to their users... oh no.
So now that Microsoft is doing exactly the thing they said they would never do, and are basically copying what the evil Scroogle Google does, it might also be worth checking through a few settings and turning some stuff off. In a nutshell Microsoft are tracking users activities, how they use W10, where they are, what they search for, what music they listen to, where they get totally lost inside Microsoft's operating systems, what TV they watch etc. so as to better serve them useful content and information. Fine they are trying to be Google. No problems there. They are also (and this may be why W10 is free) providing that information to advertisers so we can be fed meaningful, relevant and creepy advertising. Also no problem as long as they are being transparent about it. Actually Microsoft and Google etc don't actually pass anything on to advertisers, that's a bit of a misconception. In fact they guard very carefully the information they hold about their users. It's a very valuable commodity and they're not about to give it to a 3rd party. Advertisers only buy access to Microsoft's users. They never get the data. So company X might ask Microsoft for the ability to display a specific advert to all UK based users, aged over 30 who have a Bronie obsession. Microsoft takes the advert and shoves it in front of all users that fit that description. Company X gets nothing about the users from Microsoft. Only when a user clicks a link and starts uncontrollably buying small toy horses from Company X itself does information actually pass to the company. Basically exactly the way Google works.
Microsoft doesn't make this very clear in their 45 page Windows 10 T&C's, in fact they don't really discuss the process at all when you install W10. In fairness Google, Apple etc aren't that forthcoming either. Regardless though, out of the box we appear to be bleeding personal data to Microsoft at an alarming rate. So what to do.
First don't log into Windows with a Microsoft account. That shouldn't be an issue as most people don't actually use Outlook mail as their main email. I know, in a world that has Gmail why would they? Exactly. So bin it and log in with a local account. You won't be able to use One Drive or the Microsoft Store though. That's actually a good thing as I'm trying to think of a downside to not using One Drive but can't. Use Dropbox and/or Google Drive which both actually work. As for Microsoft Store there is a rumour that they are going to start selling apps that are useful and not already available from software vendors directly, but as yet that's unconfirmed. Until then it's much easier to use the Chrome Browser and enjoy their App store. Also Firefox (my browser of choice) has an App Market Place and it's not at all bad either. I hear Apple has a little App Store too and sell a couple of bits and bobs as well. Basically Windows App Store is just Microsoft being silly and you shouldn't encourage them.
Second jump into the privacy section in 'settings' and turn everything off in all the sections. It's all useless with the possible exception of the Weather App. Photo's, files and music can all be looked after in far better services than Microsoft can offer. Have you looked at Groove Music? I know it's laughable isn't it.
Third find Cortana and murder her. Have no mercy, she's pointless. She's also utterly unfaithful and whispers everything you tell her straight back to Microsoft. Be strong and get rid of her. She's sort of like Pretty Siri's ugly friend that follows her about hoping to pick up any blokes Siri casts off. In fact don't use either Siri or Cortana. They're both virtual female assistants which for a bloke is just creepy. It's like having an imaginary girlfriend. Have you seen the adverts for these services? Men flirting with a voice coming out of a mobile phone or laptop is just wrong. At least Google Now
Forth really don't try out any of the Windows Apps like Mail, Cortana, Groove, Photo's and the mysterious Edge, whatever Edge is. OK that's asking the impossible I know. It's like driving past a car crash and not having a look to see if you can spot any body parts. It can't be done. So go have a play with them just to confirm that they're as pointless and terrible as people say. Then go have a shower, you'll feel all clean again.
Good post Smilo.
How about posting the pertinent bits into the Cyber Security thread. :) (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?278-Cyber-Security)
Nailed it Smilo.
You can all go home now.
Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
If you swap to a local account can you still use the XBox App. I rather like it and wouldn't mind swapping to it from Steam *IF* it ever became popular enough with developers.
you can also still use some MS applikations, for example onedrive, just use the desktop versions as they don't use the OS account.
i had a long talk with MS today, as ive been getting a ton of questions on Win10, one of the things was win10 licensing.
Which tbh, ive read a ton of different way people say they do it..
Win10 went from a brilliant os in my book, to something in the bottom after the first year.
Question 1. When upgrading from a retail win 8.1 pro, to a win 10 pro, is the win 8.1 key invalidated and replaced by the win10.
Answer. No the windows 8.1 key continues to be valid, tho it would be illegal to use on multiple computer at a time.
Question 2. There are a lot of talk about the locking mechanics in win10, is it true the software locks to the Bios.
Answer. Yes when upgrading to windows 10 is installed, the key gets locked to the current motherboard by registering the mac adress of the NIC.
Question 3. So if the motherboard dies, can i get the key released to the new replacement board.
Answer. Yes a new key would have to be repurchased after the first year.
Question 4. Will there be a retail key available that doesn't to the hardware?
Answer. No the currenct license structure is as it is.
Question 5. So basicly by replacing the motherboard or even a standalone motherboard after the first year, would requires one to remember a 100$ key every single time. Basicly putting a extra 100% pricetag on upgrades.
Answer. Yes, it would, but our license department have really put some thought into this, and this was the best solution for every.
Answer from me: Clearly not.
I can't understand tying it to some sort of identifier on the hardware. There are many software DRM solutions that could be used prevent duplicate use of a key. Then deactivate it and reactivate it when it gets moved to replacement hardware.
They'll not get away with this.
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Have I got this right?
If you need to change/upgrade a motherboard within the first 12 months of registering W10 you can re-use the key at no charge. After 12 months you would need to purchase a W10 license. That new key would be tied to the hardware also.
I'm wondering how it will cope with soft coded mac addresses. Surely if it only reads the mac from the registry one can change that easy enough.
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Quote from: albert;402062I can't understand tying it to some sort of identifier on the hardware. There are many software DRM solutions that could be used prevent duplicate use of a key. Then deactivate it and reactivate it when it gets moved to replacement hardware.
They'll not get away with this.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
Use UEFI data instead of something stupid like hardware registration.
Quote from: OldBloke;402064Have I got this right?
If you need to change/upgrade a motherboard within the first 12 months of registering W10 you can re-use the key at no charge. After 12 months you would need to purchase a W10 license. That new key would be tied to the hardware also.
Within the first 12 months, the upgrade is free, and no matter how many times you change motherboards, you be receive a new key, but after 12 months.. you have to pay for the win10 key.
Quote from: albert;402065I'm wondering how it will cope with soft coded mac addresses. Surely if it only reads the mac from the registry one can change that easy enough.
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Indeed, its pretty damn easy to spoof a mac address and just change it..
And how do they cope when you got more then one NIC??? Choosing one at random or registrering boh or...
Disable datalogging to make win10 at litte more private. (credits reddit peoples)
There's been a lot of commotion over W10's privacy terms. I'm sure these methods can change/improve at any time, but here's a guide which should hopefully give you a relatively more private, safe experience, however at the risk of not being able to enjoy some of W10's features.
Before/During Installation
Do not use Express Settings. Hit Customize, and make sure everything is turned off.
It's strongly preferred that you use a local account with Windows 10.
After Installation
Head to Settings > Privacy, and disable everything, unless there are some things you really need.
While within the Privacy page, go to Feedback, select Never in the first box, and Basic in the second box.
Head to Settings > Update and Security > Advanced Options > Choose how updates are delivered, and turn the first switch off.
Disable Cortana by clicking the Search bar/icon.
(Optional) Disable web search in Search by going to Settings, and turning off Search online and include web results.
Change the name of your PC by going to Start (or hitting the Windows key), typing About PC, and clicking Rename PC.
Slightly Complex
Open up the Command Prompt by launching cmd as an administrator, and enter the following:
sc delete DiagTrack
sc delete dmwappushservice
echo "" > C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Diagnosis\ETLLogs\AutoLogger\AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl
Open up the Group Policy Editor by launching gpedit.msc as an administrator. Go through Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Data Collection and Preview Builds. Double click Telemetry, hit Disabled, then apply. NOTE: This only truly works in the Enterprise edition, but the final step provides a decent enough workaround for Pro users.
While still in the Group Policy Editor, go through Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > OneDrive, double click Prevent the usage of OneDrive for file storage, hit Enabled, then apply.
While still in the Group Policy Editor, go through Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Defender, double click Turn Off Windows Defender, hit Enabled, then apply.
Open up the Registry Editor by launching regedit as an administrator. Go through HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\DataCollection, select AllowTelemetry, change its value to 0, then apply.
First, download the Take Ownership tweak and enable it. Then, head to the Hosts File by going through C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\Etc, take ownership of the hosts file, and add all of the IPs from this page into the file.
Up To You
Replace Microsoft Edge/Internet Explorer with Firefox, Chromium, or any forks/variations of them.
Replace Windows Media Player with VLC or MPC-HC
Replace Groove Music with Foobar2000, Winamp, or MusicBee.
Replace Photos/Windows Photo Viewer with ImageGlass or IrfanView.
Making Cortana use google instead.
Install this google chrome extension...https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bing2google/mgoehlfmhfafaiepckjikpphoklijedl
Disable the new Quick access view
http://www.howtogeek.com/219936/how-to-disable-quick-access-in-file-explorer-on-windows-10/
Wow that's a great run down thanks kreg
Sent from my Nexus 5
Ill expand it as i go through more of win10s subsystems
Sendt fra min LG-D855 med Tapatalk
I gave it a fair go and I'm used to living with Microsoft's dumb ideas about how an OS should work but I'm going back to W8.1. Our of the box W8 is a dreadful UI but I had it set up just right and it was more stable than W10 and certainly there up less issues than W10. I drawn out a day when I can rid myself out Microsoft altogether but until then I'll stick with Windows 8 on a Windows 7 like UI.
Have any of our guinea pigs had this happen to them yet.
[h=1]FAIL: Windows 10 bulk patch produces INFINITE CRASH LOOP (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/11/windows_10_download_bricks_pcs_kb3081424/)[/h]
Nope. Upgraded a work machine today with zero problems (apart from turning off all the MS-snooping).
Not quite but W10 was a complete pain. While a lot better than Windows 8.1 it did introduce a lot of additional rubbish (privacy nonsense, forced updates, unwanted apps etc etc) I came to the conclusion that it was effectively a step down from my bespoke Windows 7.5 (Windows 8.1 with start menu addons etc) By adding these apps for the start menu and dual monitors W10 actually looked identical to my Windows 7.5 install. So I decided that as part of an upgrade to an SSD I'd have it loaded with 8.1 and not 10. It's a work machine and I can't afford to be part of whatever Microsoft catastrophe might be coming down the line such as the one Liberator linked to. As and when it all goes quiet and W10 settles down post a few rolling updates etc. then I might go for the update.
Quote from: smilodon;402392Not quite but W10 was a complete pain. While a lot better than Windows 8.1 it did introduce a lot of additional rubbish (privacy nonsense, forced updates, unwanted apps etc etc) I came to the conclusion that it was effectively a step down from my bespoke Windows 7.5 (Windows 8.1 with start menu addons etc) By adding these apps for the start menu and dual monitors W10 actually looked identical to my Windows 7.5 install. So I decided that as part of an upgrade to an SSD I'd have it loaded with 8.1 and not 10. It's a work machine and I can't afford to be part of whatever Microsoft catastrophe might be coming down the line such as the one Liberator linked to. As and when it all goes quiet and W10 settles down post a few rolling updates etc. then I might go for the update.
I wouldn't stick it onto a work/enterprise machine either, for exactly those reasons.
Also, in a completely bizarre twist of fate, IBM are into bed with Apple now so I'll be getting a Mac. Hmmm.
Quote from: Tutonic;402421I wouldn't stick it onto a work/enterprise machine either, for exactly those reasons.
Also, in a completely bizarre twist of fate, IBM are into bed with Apple now so I'll be getting a Mac. Hmmm.
where most of the reasons doesn't actually apply to a enterprise win10 setup.
As the privacy issues aren't there, forced updates arent there, unwanted apps aren't there. Even Wifi sense is gone.
Well mine isn't specifically a works enterprise machine. It is however a machine I use primarily for work. While loosing a HDD as happened on Monday morning wouldn't be a catastrophe due to a rigid and comprehensive backup regime and a laptop that can step in at a pinch, it could be a complete pain to loose the PC right in the middle of an assignment.
Once a Windows 8.1 installation has had the default Teletubbies Ui fixed I'm not seeing a compelling reason to upgrade right now, just some potential pitfalls.
http://www.howtogeek.com/224805/the-start-menu-should-be-sacred-but-its-still-a-disaster-in-windows-10/
This is an interesting article about the W10 start menu and how it's still rubbish. The W8 start screen was so bad that the W10 start screen might seem great by comparison. But it's not, it's still dreadful. I posted somewhere else on the forum that Windows historically has been an OS, a file manager and a program launcher. With W8 Microsoft has tried to reinvent itself as a service provider much like Google and Apple are. So the Windows OS is becoming a portal into Microsoft's ecosystem, appstore and cloud. The Start menu is now a place where the Internet appears in little tiles and Microsoft start trying to sell you stuff. This sadly probably a sign of worse things to come.
Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/)
Start10 (https://www.stardock.com/products/start10/)
StartisBack (http://startisback.com/#download-tab)
Update to MS ToS 1. August
“Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devicesâ€.
These new lines enables and permits MS to block Software and hardware deemed pirated or unauthorized.
Now this scares me a little, as what defines Unauthorized hardware?... Is it a magic wand MS swings at random or ....
Now the trickiest part is, the system should in theory require data to be uploaded for analyzes... yet that is not mentioned nor blockable.
http://www.t3.com/news/windows-10-will-sniff-out-and-block-pirate-games-and-unauthorised-hardware
w10 is working fine for me, updates my hardware as soon as theres a new driver,cortana reminds me about stuff i've forgotten, i'm linked to my xbox ccount so i can see what my mates on xbox are doing,my advice is stop worring about what might happen,the whole OS is'nt gonna shut down and leave u without an OS.
http://www.pcgamer.com/report-games-with-securom-and-safedisc-drm-wont-run-under-windows-10/
Weeeeeee :D
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/
Interesting, looks like MS is finally starting to use the hardcoded Host file, instead of the normal host file, so it bypasses user changes for certain bits
Remember folks, you are the product even though you may have bought the hardware and/or the OS.
"The price of peace is eternal vigilance" - Leonard H. Courtney