Wallet Warning!
Just a quick heads up that CIG will be putting the MISC Hull series of ships (I'm expecting just 4 out of the 5 will be up for sale though) on Friday 24th April.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/253293/misc-hull-series-sale-friday-april-24
For hauling, it's looking like the Hull D is going to be the ship that the Hull C was intended to be, so I'll be looking at that for hauling personally.
Sweet, thank you!
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I'm not fussed about trading, but it does mean that the Science ship is edging close. My wallet fears this.
Quote from: Galatoni;397851but it does mean that the Science ship is edging close. My wallet fears this.
+1 for this!
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Hull A - $60 USD
Hull B - $90 USD
Hull C - $200 USD
Hull D - $350 USD
Hull E - $550 USD
Gulp! :no2::helpsmilie2:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/253293/misc-hull-series-sale-friday-april-24
I'm very interested to see the difference. I'm really glad they've considered an entry level there for people that don't want a fighter.
Quote from: Galatoni;397929I'm very interested to see the difference. I'm really glad they've considered an entry level there for people that don't want a fighter.
Having thought about this overnight (in the way your grey matter does when you sleep), it struck me this morning that the Hull C is actually priced quite low compared to other similar ships. Compared to say a Constellation or a Banu, your $200 Hull C gives you a massive amount of haulage/reconfigurable space.
Hull C only needs 5 crew (same as Constellation but less than the Banu's 8)
225m long (Connie is 61m, Banu 100m)
Hauls 9,000 freight units (1,100 Connie, 6,000 Banu)
Has a Class 9 defence turret, which neither the Connie nor Banu have.
So the Hull C is actually looking quite competitive, particularly given the back-story which says that it is one of the most configurable ships out there with multiple purposes. Connie money for a more massive, more flexible hauler.
So the next question is where the A & B fit into the range and what the D and E will be. It has been confirmed that none of these ships will be in limited supply (so no Javelin rush for the Hull E).
Interesting......
Quote from: TeaLeaf;397937Hull C only needs 5 crew (same as Constellation but less than the Banu's 8)
225m long (Connie is 61m, Banu 100m)
Hauls 9,000 freight units (1,100 Connie, 6,000 Banu)
Has a Class 9 defence turret, which neither the Connie nor Banu have.
So the Hull C is actually looking quite competitive, particularly given the back-story which says that it is one of the most configurable ships out there with multiple purposes. Connie money for a more massive, more flexible hauler.
So the next question is where the A & B fit into the range and what the D and E will be. It has been confirmed that none of these ships will be in limited supply (so no Javelin rush for the Hull E).
Interesting......
I hadn't actually looked at the specs until now. But yes. I think think the Hull C is the best balance, but compared to the others, I think you get more bang for your buck. If anyone has a hauler within that price range though, now is the chance to trade up to something with LTI!
Ignore the specs, as they have changed significantly, I believe.
From what I've heard, they've resized the 'C' and the 'D' is now the size of the 'C' with the 'E' being the super tanker of the group.
A - pickup truck
B - Box van
C - 18-wheeler
D - Small freighter
E - Super tanker
Quote from: Obsydian;397951Ignore the specs, as they have changed significantly, I believe.
From what I've heard, they've resized the 'C' and the 'D' is now the size of the 'C' with the 'E' being the super tanker of the group.
A - pickup truck
B - Box van
C - 18-wheeler
D - Small freighter
E - Super tanker
And holy cow is that ever some super tanker!
There does seem a massive disparity now between crew requirements. Hull E has 153k cargo units and needs 5 people, whereas the little old Banu needs 8 people to haulk just 6k cargo units. Go figure.
It's very hard to manouver, and probably needs a fleet protecting it.
I like the look of the smaller Hulls. That big one is just plain butt ugly, taking the attach a container concept too far. It's way too expensive as well IMHO. And the difference between even the D and the E in terms of capacity is just not logical. The large multipack saves just 50 Euros.
35K was pledged yesterday, which shows the community are not impressed I would say, given on Monday when there was no concept sale going on they received over 50K.
I agree Albert. I think that they've expected too much. Especially with the multi pack as well. If they are more single purpose than the others wouldn't it make sense that it was reflected in the price? Still there will be people that love this idea.
But if this is the shape of a pure cargo hauler the merchantman will likely be redesigned along with the Connie.
Quote from: albert;39815035K was pledged yesterday, which shows the community are not impressed I would say, given on Monday when there was no concept sale going on they received over 50K.
Most of the release money fell into Saturday not Friday. They took $540k yesterday.
Ah I only saw the graph yesterday. I thought it was released early enough to to get a decent innings on Friday.
I have to say if the C was 50 Euro less I would have bought one. I've totally lost my bearings on price comparisons with other ships now there is tax showing up. It's a killer in Holland at 21%
Quote from: TeaLeaf;398147There does seem a massive disparity now between crew requirements. Hull E has 153k cargo units and needs 5 people, whereas the little old Banu needs 8 people to haulk just 6k cargo units. Go figure.
When contracted, the Hull E is actually smaller than the Merchantman, which I think answers the crew figures. That and the fact that the stats for the MM are likely to change, so we may see a coming together of the stats.
Ben did say that they were pitching the MM to be between the Hull C and Hull D, so the 6000 of the MM vs the 4800 of the C and the 21600 of the D seems to fit that, and I am expecting the cargo capacity of the MM to go up by the time it makes it in-engine.
They have said that the D is aimed at mid-sized orgs and the E at large org's, and that both would require fighter escorts because they are effectively loot piñatas and won't make it through lawless space unscathed.
Quote from: Obsydian;398173They have said that the D is aimed at mid-sized orgs and the E at large org's, and that both would require fighter escorts because they are effectively loot piñatas and won't make it through lawless space unscathed.
I'm assuming we should have a Class D then! :P
We probably won't need these with the amount of MMs, Constellations and them miner ships.
For such a small org, we already have loads of cargo space.
Quote from: Gorion;398178We probably won't need these with the amount of MMs, Constellations and them miner ships.
Since when has 'need' affected our buying choices :flirty:
Aye. To be fair, what we need is pilots! Heck, i'll lend my (fully insured!) ship to anyone if we can get some good use out of it!
Quick update regarding cargo sizes compadre to the other ships, especially the Merchantman...
The existing stats are in the old FU units, and need to be divide by 4 to get the true size in the new SCU units.
That makes the Merchantman have only 1500 SCUs which further adds to my expectation that it will be increased.
Anyway, so one on Reddit has posted this graph that compares the cargo sizes of all of the ships as they currently stand.
http://i.imgur.com/2PruNSm.jpg
That was the bit that was exacerbating my worries. Tiny compared to D and being more crew.
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Hello people! Long time no speak - sorry about that :) Real life, getting in the way again.
I've popped in as I'm deciding on one of these. I kind of like the Hull B as a smaller, easier to handle cargo runabout. Then again, the C is tempting. Is anyone actually picking one of these up?
I'm guessing Obsydian has (from his question on the other thread) and I'm considering a Hull D as insurance against the MM not being sufficiently increased in capacity.
I think the Hull E is simply out of reach for us as an org, unless it is dedicated to 'alliance' tasks.
No, not got anything yet, still pondering.
The thing about the C, D and E is that they are all station to station, and, due to their size, may possibly need multiple courier contracts to fill the space available. This could end up being a logistical nightmare.
I think the E is way too big for us as an org, even if devoted to hauling org assets, and things would probably be easier (and maybe safer) if split between a number of smaller ships.
The A and B could be used for ferrying cargo between planetside and station (where no space elevator exists) as well as between planets directly, so appear to be the more versatile craft.
But something about the D and E that just makes me want to get them....aaaargh!
Anyway, has everyone seen the size comparison video by Voon? It's an eye opener that's for sure...
[video=youtube_share;2GEGyBgZ8Ko]http://youtu.be/2GEGyBgZ8Ko[/video]
Well, what's the point of using A/B to ferry down stuff when we could use a Taurus/MM/Caterpillar.
All these just the Taurus has less space than a B. Plus they better equipment in general?
Honestly, there is no point in spending money on these. Remember that the big ones cost less to buy versus the value of the carried cargo.
Well, there's the cost of the ship: the B is much cheaper than a Caterpillar or a merchantman.
Then there's the crew requirements: the B is a single seater.
Fuel costs...just guessing here, but I'd say that the B uses much less fuel than the others.
Scalability: due to the cheapness of the ships, and the solo nature of them, you could easily get half a dozen pilots with Bs to ferry cargo and they would do it far quicker and cheaper than with either a Caterpillar or Merchantman.
So, I think they probably are worth investing in myself.
I think the real issue here is safety. These ships are incredibly vulnerable. Plus they're not as modular as some
If anyone is going to buy a Hull please let me know. I have a discount coupon still to use and it knocks 15% off the price. It would mean me buying and then gifting your ship to you, but I can only use the coupon once and it's good for up to circa £600 of ships, so it seems sensible to only use it on a batch of ships rather than for single ships.
Quote from: Galatoni;398232I think the real issue here is safety. These ships are incredibly vulnerable. Plus they're not as modular as some
Exactly my thoughts.
Also expect a Hull going around as a big piggy bank.
Quote from: Galatoni;398232I think the real issue here is safety. These ships are incredibly vulnerable. Plus they're not as modular as some
It all depends upon the context really.
If you're talking about ferrying cargo into or out of an unsafe system, then yes, you would use something a bit more secure AND you would provide an escort for it (if you think a Merchantman on its own is safe, think again - numbers are key to staying safe).
But if we're talking about a safe system, then a Hull B (or a number of them) makes sense.
If we ever find ourselves in an asteroid field with 2 or more Orions, having a C on hand would make sense as it would reduce the number of trips needed to ferry the ore back to a station, leaving the Orions to do their thing in the field.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;398235If anyone is going to buy a Hull please let me know. I have a discount coupon still to use and it knocks 15% off the price. It would mean me buying and then gifting your ship to you, but I can only use the coupon once and it's good for up to circa £600 of ships, so it seems sensible to only use it on a batch of ships rather than for single ships.
Well that sounds lovely! Although I'm most likely getting a B, so probably not a good use of the voucher unless you're picking a bunch up too. If you do buy some, pick me up a Hull B too and I'll send you the credits (or let me know when you're planning to so I can send it over first). High five!
The more I think about it, the more I like the B. I've not got anything great for hauling at the moment, but I don't want yet another ship with a high crew requirement. This is my lone trucker option :)
There are a lot of us that will relish running escorts for you all. :) go team ;)
Quote from: Obsydian;398242It all depends upon the context really.
If you're talking about ferrying cargo into or out of an unsafe system, then yes, you would use something a bit more secure AND you would provide an escort for it (if you think a Merchantman on its own is safe, think again - numbers are key to staying safe).
It's not just about the safety of the ship. The Hulls carry their cargo containers outside, exposed to weapons fire, thus exposed to destruction.
Other ships store cargo containers inside their holds, which are not exposed to weapon fire unless the ship is mostly dead in the water. Plus having good defense systems goes a long way to deter opponents.
Hulls are flying piggy banks, and everyone will know when you have cargo on you as cargo containers are shown. A MM, or a Constellation aren't always carrying cargo, and if shielded then a would be pirate wouldn't be able to know whether you have cargo in your ships belly, thus increasing his risk since he's attacking blindly and might lose out instead of gaining anything. If its a Hull with containers, then the would be pirate knows that he can steal cargo from you as he can see the cargo..
I Disagree, it's all about the safety of the ship. You would only utilise a Hull in an area where the likelihood of being attacked was remote, or you have a large escort to discourage too much attention. And the Hulls all have upgraded shields which covers the spindles as well as the rest of the ship. Admittedly, that's not much use against projectiles, but as I say, your escort should be your shield.
the fact that a MM or Constellation don't show their cargo is irrelevant: that's what scanners are for. Pirates will be able to tell whether you're carrying anything or not, regardless of whether it's visible. Some scanners will even tell what is in the cargo (hence the need for specially shielded containers if you want to keep the contents private).
And you will still need an escort for that MM or Constellation unless you're feeling particularly brave (or stupid). You should never fly alone in unsafe space.
Think of it tactically: a Hull B and MM have the same cargo capacity; the Hull B has. Single pilot, the MM a crew of 8; the Hull B is 1/3 of the cost of a MM. If you undock in a MM you are risking the lives of 8 crew and a very expensive ship (and its cargo), but with a Hull B, it's a cheap(ish) ship, with one crew, and the same cargo. Another advantage to the B is that those other 7 crew could provide escort...immediately, your little B is much less enticing a target than a lone MM.
In UEE space, it will be more cost effective to use a Hull B, as the risk is relatively low and you are extremely unlikely to be attacked (and there's always insurance, right?).
Things change, though, when you decide to make a journey from one system to another. Escorts are probably a must, regardless of whether you're in a MM or a B, and the defences on a MM are more of a bonus than a main line of defence, but again, in an MM you're risking 8 lives instead of just the one. I think if the journey manages to stay on fairly secure shipping lanes that run close to well patrolled areas of space, you ought to be ok in the B, but if any part of the journey crosses more dangerous space, then using something a bit more armoured would make more sense, or increase the number of escorts.
As I said, it's all about context: there will be times when a B is more advantageous.
Quote from: Obsydian;398262And you will still need an escort for that MM or Constellation unless you're feeling particularly brave (or stupid). You should never fly alone in unsafe space.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. As has been already shown, a Constellation Andromeda with default equipment was capable of fending off 5 hornets at one go, without using the snub fighter. Those two turrets pack quite the punch. Adding to that, the Phoenix has the Class9 auto defense too, plus better missiles and the standard guns.
MM's aren't low on firepower neither. So as you're fully crewed you should be fine against generic attacks.
I'll guess we'll see in the PU.
Sorry Gorion, that was just a tech demo, not a real fight. As you say, we won't really know until the ships are flyable, which hopefully won't be very long from now :)
A further point to bear in mind is the mindset of the potential attackers: they want the cargo, so it's in their interest to avoid shooting the cargo. That's arguably more likely with a Hull than it is with, say, a MM, and I would argue that it's perhaps more likely that they will end up blowing up a MM, thereby losing the cargo.
Also, the whole point of having an escort isn't to survive a fight (that's secondary); you put your finger on it in an earlier post: the primary reason is as a deterrent. Avoiding a fight should be any haulier's primary objective, so the message to any potential attacker shouldn't be "bring it on" it should be "don't **** with us".
Quote from CIG devs:
[h=3]“If you shoot the cargo containers do they spew cargo into space when they rupture? If you target the racks can you detach them from the ship as it’s moving?†â€" Marcus Murphy[/h]We’re aware that the ‘spindle’ looks like the weak point of the Hull series, but do not intend for this to carry over into the game mechanics. The cargo containers will be fully shielded and will themselves have an armor value; those that wish for additional protection can use containers that trade armor for space. (But hey, what kind of pirate risks destroying their loot in the first place?)
And the Hull E (and possibly others?) can carry their own escorts!
[h=3]“Can the hull ships carry smaller starfighters (packed or configured as cargo) such as the Super Hornet?†â€" queetz[/h]Yes! Spacecraft can be broken down into their component parts for transport, or carried in their completed forms aboard larger Hulls. There is also a ‘midget fighter attachment’ being developed for the Hull E which will allow it to drop and recover escort fighters in exchange for cargo space.
So glad I got a Hull C:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14686-Hull-C
Quote from: Obsydian;398398So glad I got a Hull C:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14686-Hull-C
I'm waiting for tomorrow's Q&A about the Hull D. Then I'll decide if I want another Hull. The Hull C sits in the same market as the Banu, albeit with some bonuses like the auto cargo loading system etc, but the Banu has some advantages too and I'm not massively keen on having multiple ship sitting in similar roles. The Hull D might be something though for the long term, so I'm looking forward to finding out more.
I know what you mean - I've got a Merchantman as well, but I see them as being used in different roles.
Based on the CommLink above, it's clear that the Hull C is capable of so much more than simply hauling cargo and can be configured to do almost any task, so I'm happy to have both.
It looks likely that the Merchantman is in for a big boost in size. The original 6000FUs would have equated to just 1500SCUs, but they've made it larger than the Hull C, which means that it's physical size simply has to increase. I think that anyone who has a Merchantman is in for a similar bonus to those who bought an Idris: they're going to end up with much more ship for their money than CIG originally intended :)
Quote from: Obsydian;398406... I think that anyone who has a Merchantman is in for a similar bonus to those who bought an Idris: they're going to end up with much more ship for their money than CIG originally intended.
Suits me :D