Dead Men Walking

dMw Chit Chat => The Beer Bar => Technology Section => Topic started by: addx9 on January 18, 2016, 03:25:35 PM

Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 18, 2016, 03:25:35 PM
So I have been running all of my games on a raedeon HD550 now for over 4 years and I'm finally in a position where I can up my game and buy a better graphics card.

I have had some suggestion's however I would like to get a wider range of options for my price range if anyone has any knowledge on this.

My budget is around £180 - £250.

Thanks!
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: sulky_uk on January 18, 2016, 03:31:29 PM
you will need to post up the specs of your power supply, or better still a picture. It will help us know you upper limits as it you go for a too high powered card you will need a power supply as well
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 18, 2016, 03:37:57 PM
I have a 103w power supply which I can upgrade as well
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: OldBloke on January 18, 2016, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: addx9;409073I have a 103w power supply which I can upgrade as well

And so it starts ... :)
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Tutonic on January 18, 2016, 05:57:49 PM
Quote from: addx9;409073I have a 103w power supply which I can upgrade as well

Yea, you'll need to upgrade that - 500W is probably as low as you want to go for a modern gaming PC. Here's a suggestion, but DYOR: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/corsair-builder-series-cx-600w-v2-80-plus-bronze-power-supply-cp-9020048-uk-ca-048-cs.html

The Nvidia GTX 970 is still insane bang-for-buck power, they go for about £250 which is the top of your budget but shop around and you might find a good deal.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gorion on January 18, 2016, 06:26:30 PM
The Bang for Buck king right now is the AMD R9 390 at £240 (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/xfx-radeon-r9-390-dd-black-edition-8192mb-gddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-r9-390p-8db6-gx-227-xf.html).  Do not go for the GTX 970 route for the same price as you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

Forget Nvidia, unless you want to buy a £400-500 card.

Comparison. (http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-390-vs-GeForce-GTX-970)  Also, keep in mind that the 970 only has 3.5GB of fully clocked VRAM, the other 500MB uses a lower clock rate, and has been quite the PR Nightmare for Nvidia.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 18, 2016, 07:01:03 PM
Alright thanks guys!! ill check these out and i'll certainly get the 500W upgrade
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gorion on January 18, 2016, 07:40:12 PM
I'd go with more than 500W if I were you.

And, I would first check the power requirements of your PC before buying said PSU.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: lionheart on January 18, 2016, 08:48:55 PM
Was desperately looking for the LIKE button for this post.......
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: lionheart on January 18, 2016, 08:50:32 PM
Quote from: OldBloke;409074And so it starts ... :)

I meant this post of course.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gone_Away on January 18, 2016, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: OldBloke;409074And so it starts ... :)

LOL OB - Nice one
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: TeaLeaf on January 19, 2016, 07:26:07 AM
I'm surprised nobody has asked what the current CPU is yet.  There's a balance to be struck with many games, the CPU has to process and the graphics card has to render.  If you have a £1,000 graphics card on a £50 CPU then the graphics will still suffer badly.

Which brings us back to Oldie's point!

Depending on how old your current system is, you might need to upgrade the whole lot.   E.g.

To stop your new graphics card being CPU-bound then you need a new CPU.
Your new CPU probably uses a different socket to your existing CPU, so that triggers the need for a new mobo and RAM.
Your new CPU's low power/sleep states along with the higher power need of the new graphics card mean you need a bigger PSU and one that is compliant with the latest power standards.
So that's pretty muchb your whole PC upgraded!
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gunda on January 19, 2016, 06:18:35 PM
I'm not sure i've ever seen a 103watt powersupply, are you sure that is what you have now? and as TeaLeaf says probably best to post your whole PC spec so we can take a look at advise accordingly.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: sulky_uk on January 19, 2016, 06:59:40 PM
103 watt max on the 12v rail?or per rail
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Obsydian on January 21, 2016, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: Gorion;409084The Bang for Buck king right now is the AMD R9 390 at £240 (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/xfx-radeon-r9-390-dd-black-edition-8192mb-gddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-r9-390p-8db6-gx-227-xf.html).  Do not go for the GTX 970 route for the same price as you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

Forget Nvidia, unless you want to buy a £400-500 card.

Comparison. (http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-390-vs-GeForce-GTX-970)  Also, keep in mind that the 970 only has 3.5GB of fully clocked VRAM, the other 500MB uses a lower clock rate, and has been quite the PR Nightmare for Nvidia.

By way of adding balance to Gorion's above argument, I would have to disagree and state the complete opposite!

Pricewise, the 970 and 390 are about the same (£240+, or £260+ for  overclocked versions), whereas the cheapest 390x on the market is about  Â£315.

The GTX970 easily outpaces the 390 by about 20%, and betters the 390x by about 10%.  VRAM, while probably becoming more important over the next few years, isn't terribly important right now as there are very few games out on the market that would tax the 4GB of VRAM on the 970, so the 8GB on the 390 will really only be of use if you're planning on running a 4K screen or 3 x 1080p screens at high FPS rates (or you are wanting to run one of the very few games that want to use all available VRAM they can find!)

I have used both NVidia and AMD cards over the years, usually choosing one over the other based on relatvie performance at that time, and I can honestly say that while NVidia has never given me any problems, I have had huge problems with almost every AMD card I have bought, to the point that about 18 months ago, after having to send my last card (R9 290x) back to AMD for 'repair' for the third time, I finally decided that I will never go AMD ever again.

For transparency, my current card is a 970 and it runs Star Citizen at 1080p max quality at a steady 60fps in Vanduul Swarm.  It'll probably go higher but my monitor only supports 60Hz.  Memory usage never gets much higher than 2GB and temperature under load tops out at around 65-75 degrees.

But the choice is, of course, yours.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Tutonic on January 21, 2016, 02:40:21 PM
I'll also personally vouch for the 970. I play on a 1440p monitor, and the performance is absolutely fine despite the VRAM configuration.

It also runs cool, and almost entirely silent - an excellent piece of hardware.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: sulky_uk on January 21, 2016, 02:57:57 PM
Quote from: Tutonic;409187I'll also personally vouch for the 970. I play on a 1440p monitor, and the performance is absolutely fine despite the VRAM configuration.

It also runs cool, and almost entirely silent - an excellent piece of hardware.

im with that as well, got one, never had the vram slowdown and it runs great

if like me you have a small case then how about  a 1/2 sized 970 but with grunt of the full size one, ive got it and its cool and the gang

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-1076MHz-Dl-Dvi-I-Dl-Dvi-D-Graphics/dp/B00P7337YG
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Jamoe on January 21, 2016, 03:04:10 PM
I'm struggling with the HD550 as I can't find a graphics card that fits that. Figured it would help us workout what other parts you have.

Unless you meant the system is a Fusion HD550 which has a HD 5770.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/pcs/49974/pc-specialist-fusion-hd-550-review

There was also HD5550 or possible a HD 550v (but the later is more a laptop card)

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/5000/5550
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-550v.31270.0.html

Perhaps I'm just not googling right :)


(edit: I went with a GTX 970 in September last year with the plan of buying a 4k monitor in 2016 along with something from Nvidia's Pascal range)
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 21, 2016, 03:55:51 PM
Wow thanks a lot for the info guys! great help!

As for an update, I have bought and installed a 600W CX600 power supply.

As for my Processor I have an Intel Core I3-2130 3.40GHz
With my total ram being 4GB (however I could potentially use one of the two 2TB hard drives to help with that)
I also have a  1920x1080 60hz Main Monitor alongside a 1280x720 50hz Side monitor

I have been looking at the Radeon R9 390 and it seems like it does have mixed reviews but i have never used Nvidia so I'm still unsure of what's best to go for.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Obsydian on January 21, 2016, 04:00:37 PM
Probably the biggest boost you could give to your system right now would be to increase the RAM to 8GB at a minimum.  4GB will be choking your system a lot.  You're probably not aware of it as you may simply have gotten used to it, but increasing your memory will breathe new life into your machine.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Tutonic on January 21, 2016, 04:03:03 PM
Get an SSD if you don't already have one, probably the biggest performance you can make to a system right now.

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 21, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Quote from: Tutonic;409192Get an SSD if you don't already have one, probably the biggest performance you can make to a system right now.

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk

I already have 4tb of physical memory but would this affect my ram?
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Obsydian on January 21, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: addx9;409193I already have 4tb of physical memory but would this affect my ram?
No.

Your hard drives are storage, your ram is memory.

While having an SSD as your main (I.e. Operating system) drive will speed up loading of programs, etc. that 4GB of memory really is holding your system back.

In order of priority, I would suggest:
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Jamoe on January 21, 2016, 04:16:38 PM
Quote from: addx9;409193I already have 4tb of physical memory but would this affect my ram?

An SSD (Solid State Drive) would be equivalent to your other HDD but just so much faster. This isn't the same as RAM, that sits on the motherboard and is used by the CPU to store stuff it wants in the near future. When you turn your machine off anything in RAM is gone, it doesn't persist. That's what your "physical memory" would be for (those 4T HDD and/or SSD).

This will help explain the difference and also go some way to explain why you need more RAM :)

https://www.quora.com/Computer-Hardware/Whats-the-difference-between-a-hard-disk-a-RAM-and-a-CPU-cache-and-why-do-you-need-each-of-them

Edit: obs beat me to it and I agree with his upgrade priority. If you don't have enough RAM the CPU starts to hit the virtual memory on the HDD which is a huge hit on performance

 My only concern is whether the i3 will be a bottleneck for a £200 Graphics card.

For me the SSD is a fair bit down the priority ladder, someone can correct me but I doubt that will improve game performance bar loading times.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 21, 2016, 05:45:14 PM
Quote from: Obsydian;409194No.

Your hard drives are storage, your ram is memory.

While having an SSD as your main (I.e. Operating system) drive will speed up loading of programs, etc. that 4GB of memory really is holding your system back.

In order of priority, I would suggest:
  • Increase memory to 8GB as a minimum (to allow your system to 'breathe' and run efficiently)
  • New graphics card (so you can play games at higher resolutions)
  • Upgrade the OS drive to SSD (to speed up loading and increase responsiveness of the machine).

Thanks dude ill get on that, I have just upgraded my ram to 12gb so I'm running a little faster
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 21, 2016, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: Jamoe;409195An SSD (Solid State Drive) would be equivalent to your other HDD but just so much faster. This isn't the same as RAM, that sits on the motherboard and is used by the CPU to store stuff it wants in the near future. When you turn your machine off anything in RAM is gone, it doesn't persist. That's what your "physical memory" would be for (those 4T HDD and/or SSD).

This will help explain the difference and also go some way to explain why you need more RAM :)

https://www.quora.com/Computer-Hardware/Whats-the-difference-between-a-hard-disk-a-RAM-and-a-CPU-cache-and-why-do-you-need-each-of-them

Edit: obs beat me to it and I agree with his upgrade priority. If you don't have enough RAM the CPU starts to hit the virtual memory on the HDD which is a huge hit on performance

 My only concern is whether the i3 will be a bottleneck for a £200 Graphics card.

For me the SSD is a fair bit down the priority ladder, someone can correct me but I doubt that will improve game performance bar loading times.

Awesome thanks for explaining and I'll check over the next couple of days if family have any SSD's spare
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gorion on January 22, 2016, 08:48:17 PM
Quote from: Obsydian;409186By way of adding balance to Gorion's above argument, I would have to disagree and state the complete opposite!

Pricewise, the 970 and 390 are about the same (£240+, or £260+ for  overclocked versions), whereas the cheapest 390x on the market is about  Â£315.

The GTX970 easily outpaces the 390 by about 20%, and betters the 390x by about 10%.  VRAM, while probably becoming more important over the next few years, isn't terribly important right now as there are very few games out on the market that would tax the 4GB of VRAM on the 970, so the 8GB on the 390 will really only be of use if you're planning on running a 4K screen or 3 x 1080p screens at high FPS rates (or you are wanting to run one of the very few games that want to use all available VRAM they can find!)

I have used both NVidia and AMD cards over the years, usually choosing one over the other based on relatvie performance at that time, and I can honestly say that while NVidia has never given me any problems, I have had huge problems with almost every AMD card I have bought, to the point that about 18 months ago, after having to send my last card (R9 290x) back to AMD for 'repair' for the third time, I finally decided that I will never go AMD ever again.

For transparency, my current card is a 970 and it runs Star Citizen at 1080p max quality at a steady 60fps in Vanduul Swarm.  It'll probably go higher but my monitor only supports 60Hz.  Memory usage never gets much higher than 2GB and temperature under load tops out at around 65-75 degrees.

But the choice is, of course, yours.


I'm sorry but I think you're your wrong in your assumption, as your statistics deviate from the benchmarks out there. Your opinion might biased since you had multiple card failures.  I had cards go bad from both sides, unfortunately, some production batches result in bad gpus; it's normal.

Performance wise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhJHluSVpw (390 vs 970 - FPS, Heat, DB)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSDQzlKDYq4 (390 vs 970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMnpknaAq0g (290x vs 970)


For the same pricepoint, you get gpus with very similar frame output.  However, you can get twice the vram, and double bus width. Having 8GB of Vram is a major benefit for the coming years.

Keep in mind that 6-8GB vram is going to be the new standard going forward.  So if you plan on buying another GPU in a year's time, go ahead and buy the 970.  If you rather spend the same amount of money, and keep your GPU for more than a year, the only path right now is AMD.

Also, why even think about limiting yourself to 1080p?  You might want higher resolutions, or multiple monitors down the line.  Do you plan to change gpu's because you didn't think about that option now?

The whole idea is not thinking just about the now, it's about thinking about what's next.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: addx9 on January 31, 2016, 06:21:10 PM
So after buying all the parts needed to upgrade (2x£10 Fans, 2x8gb ram and a 600w power supply) I have finally bought the PNY Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 Graphics Card( http://www.amazon.co.uk/PNY-Nvidia-GeForce-Graphics-Express/dp/B00SLH1TFY/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1453830930&sr=8-18&keywords=gtx+970+2gb) as after getting advice from both you guys and Maplin's clerk's i decided that I didn't need to spend an extra £100 for a 0.8% increase in processing power. Thanks guys for helping me out and I look forward to gaming at a high end with everyone in the near future!
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: RogueTaylor on January 31, 2016, 06:30:16 PM
Quote from: addx9;409788So after buying all the parts needed to upgrade (2x£10 Fans, 2x8gb ram and a 600w power supply) I have finally bought the PNY Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 Graphics Card( http://www.amazon.co.uk/PNY-Nvidia-GeForce-Graphics-Express/dp/B00SLH1TFY/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1453830930&sr=8-18&keywords=gtx+970+2gb) as after getting advice from both you guys and Maplin's clerk's i decided that I didn't need to spend an extra £100 for a 0.8% increase in processing power. Thanks guys for helping me out and I look forward to gaming at a high end with everyone in the near future!

Brilliant new add I look forward to seeing you in games like ark and doing this ensures the ability to play future games as well so great job man
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Gunda on February 01, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
get yourself a i5 3570k

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2053587.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.Xi5+3570K.TRS0&_nkw=i5+3570K&_sacat=0

it is not just a 0.8% improvement... you would probably see at least a 10-15% improvement in framerates since i would hazzard a guess your system is going to be cpu bottlenecked now.
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Penfold on February 03, 2016, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: Tutonic;409187I'll also personally vouch for the 970. I play on a 1440p monitor, and the performance is absolutely fine despite the VRAM configuration.

It also runs cool, and almost entirely silent - an excellent piece of hardware.

Tutski. That 670 you sold me is fine but I'm thinking it should go into my office machine. Will the 970 fit into the same slot. I presume so but think it's worth checking :)
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Tutonic on February 03, 2016, 12:00:54 PM
Yep - I replaced that 670 with a 970 in my machine so it should be a straight swap.

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: Jamoe on February 03, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: Tutonic;409989Yep - I replaced that 670 with a 970 in my machine so it should be a straight swap.

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk

It depends, my 970 is 30cm long (I believe it's one of the longer 970s) . I'd check the specs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/2hj4fp/discussion_gtx_970_length_by_manufacturer_simple/ some insight into differences
Title: Would like some suggestions for a New Graphics card
Post by: sulky_uk on February 03, 2016, 05:04:32 PM
my 970 iis this size

18.3 x 12.9 x 4.3 cm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-1076MHz-Dl-Dvi-I-Dl-Dvi-D-Graphics/dp/B00P7337YG