So after literally years of reading stats, playing in AC, buying/melting ships to test them or walk around them, with the advent of 2.1 i'm finally set on how i want to start this damn game !
I will have 3 "starter ships", in 3 distinct roles, a dedicated small Combat ship, a small multi crew (but still solo capable), multi function ship & a dedicated Cargo ship, this i feel covers all my bases for starters, giving me something to hunt bounties with and use when i'm required as an escort, something to haul cargo and something to do a bit of everything with when multi-crewing with mates. I will likely add a dedicated exploration ship with in game credits as soon as i can, but i think hauling cargo and trying to collect bounties will possibly be quicker money makers than exploration initially.
And here is where i'd like your opinions ! Having played in 2.1 quiet a lot over last few days i've pinned down 1 ship in my lineup for sure, the Cutlass will 100% be my small multicrew/multi function ship, it's a nice size, well armed, fantastic visibility, can carry a reasonable cargo load (or a team of FPS ready boarders ! :boxing:) & seems like it will be ok solo and even better with a crew. The other 2 ships i'd like your input !
My combat ship of choice for a while has been my Super Hornet, it's quiet a beast and i love it, however it seems to have 1 competitor in the Vangaurd Warden, both 2 seaters but on paper weirdly varying stats, e.g. SH has a size 4 power plant compared to the VW size 2 even though the VW is considerably bigger/heavier, but the SH has 1 x TR4 compared to the VW 2 x TR4, also the SH has max size 4 shields but VW only max size 2, these odd discrepancies carry through pretty much the entire specs, so i suppose my question is to those of you who have flown both, how does the VW actually shape up in combat currently in 2.1 ? And does the turret operate like the SH turret when not manned ? or is a co-pilot a necessity ?
Lastly my cargo ship..... i have nothing here yet, but again i want to keep something that's at least feasible to solo pilot, i'm not remotely fussed about it's combat ability as i envisage i will probably only use this for safe cargo runs or with an escort, so i think realistically i'm looking at either a Freelancer Max or Constellation Taurus...... or possibly a Misc Hull B.... this is the choice i'm struggling with the most.
So, what have you guys chosen if you have similar roles in mind ? and why have you chosen what you have ? Looking forward to some input from the dMw crew :D
Cargo - I've defiantely gone for the Freelancer as a cargo ship. My reasoning is that going with a Constellation or larger will almost certainly require either an NPC crew (expensive) or other dMw players (possibly no guarantee they'll be available when you want to fly cargo runs). You can in theory fly a Constellation solo but I'd imagine with issues around control and protection. One of the dedicated cargo ships might be an option but they are still way back in development, expensive, big, probably also require crew members to run effectively and until they are at least hangar ready and their specs are locked down I'd just watch and wait.
The Freelancer is very usable as a single player ship, can carry a decent cargo haul and can look after itself in a fight. There's also the fact that I think they look gorgeous in a quirky way and seem like a real home in space, but that's just my opinion. Finally they are the largest ship that can fit through the smallest Jump Points. Bigger cargo ships will be limited to the bigger jump points. I'm not sure exactly how this will play out in game but it' worth considering. The Freelancer for me is going to be what your Cutlass is to you, my go too ship. I have the DUR as I'm more about exploring than hauling but the MAX does seem like a compelling choice if you want to be effective but not have to rely on other players/NPC to get stuff done.
There's a nice video that broadly matches my thoughts here
Fighter - I've no experience of either ship. Another video from STLY Youngblood dscusses all the combat ship and compares the Vanguard to the Super Hornet at about 13 minutes in
Thanks for the input... i'm actually STILL torn between the Freelancer Max and the Connie Taurus, the Max is edging it due to jump point accessibility though, i didn't know that, being away from the community for 9 months or so has it's drawbacks ! On that note, and the NPC crew issue, last i heard (9 months ago !) we were going to be able to create NPC's in our spare character slots that come with extra game packages, has something changed there ? As if not, creating a couple of NPC's to crew a Taurus shouldn't be a big deal ?
The combat video is useful too, just need to know how that turret works i guess & see if there's any actual Vanguard owners on here with in game experience !
Combat - Having flown both the SH and Warden my preference in the SH. But they're two completely different ships used in different ways. The SH is a hard hitting heavy fighter, it doesn't need two players as losing the turret takes something away from the pilot. But it's great having a spare seat as you can pickup downed pilots or handcuff a bounty in the back. :)
The Warden is more boom and zoom rather than a dog fighter. If your flying single player then the turret is no good. All its firepower is forward facing, and as such should do a lot of damage to the ship in front of it. It's also a long range ship so I'd imagine it could be outfitted with a exploration mod. I do like it but Id prefer to use it for long distant missions.
Cargo - this is a easy one to answer. I went for the Hull B, it has three times the cargo of the FL MAX and holds more than the Taurus and it's a dedicated one man ship. It's not as sexy or as versatile as the freelancer and if you were to only have one ship then the freelancer is the better choice. But if it's pure cargo ship you want then choose the Hull B, it's all about the profit. Also it half the price of Taurus and a lot less than the Freelancer.
If you want to try the Warden out I'll be online around 7 uk time. :)
Quote from: smilodon;409625The Freelancer is very usable as a single player ship, can carry a decent cargo haul and can look after itself in a fight.
This is v.interesting take as I'm sure there was another thread lamenting the need for 2 or 3 crew to be effective in a freelancer?
Not at the moment. It's billed as a two crew ship but has always been pitched as a decent solo ship. Like the Cutlass it is probably more effective with a second crew member manning the turret or working the shields but I have no issue with it in the PU. It's telling that both the Freelancer and Cutlass have commercials and both show them with one crew member. Not definitive I agree, but worth noting.
The Constellation, Retaliator, Carrack etc are billed as a true multi crew ships. I think as the game develops flying them solo will be possible but extremely inefficient and dangerous. As always though things change and when the game is complete we might all be thinking very differently. Thank goodness for having melting :D
Aye. All ships will be soloable until you get to the likes of the Idris. Soloable but deeply inefficient.
Has there been any further word on using your extra character slots to create NPC's ? I know it's not the real answer to multi crew but if we can rustle up a cheap NPC for the Freelancer/Cutlass turret that's even better...
This is speculation at this point, not only has nothing been finalised, but its based on a few pieces of information that I've come across in passing:
1. Originally people were told that having 'another game based pledge' on your account would give you an NPC slot - effectively a slave you could use. This has since been thrown out.
2. While having another pledge does give you another slot to play with, that slot, if used as a custom (appearance) NPC would still need to be paid.
3. This is to encourage people with larger ships to team play and 'spread the wealth' as it were.
Now I have a few multi crew ships, but nothing hitting the scale where it'd be impossible to fly solo in some way. I want crew members to be real PC's rather than NPC's and i've no problem with sharing whatever bounties (after repairs and consumables of course!) become available. This, to me, highlights that we will have to work together quite closely to make this work out financially. While I know some people prefer solo play, there would be nothing stopping you flying without a turret. In all honesty, the turrets aren't that effective anyway. One of the reasons why I dropped the 'Tali (beautiful though it is). Its already been said that while the AI will be pretty good, it won't be a scratch on real experience of almost any level. Take from this what you will, but I don't think you're going to get free NPC's.
There is nothing to suggest that there won't be upgrades for automated turrets though. I mean class 9 (Phoenix owners confirmed ;) ) slots are considered point-defence for shooting down missiles. So the idea of weapon automation is there.
I've not really read much on the extra character slots lately. The rumour that has been floating around for a while now is that:
1. You will be able to buy extra character slots to create NPC players. Est. $10
2. You can convert your own present character slot to a NPC.
3. These NPCs will vary from hired NPCs in game. Personal NPC will be low level and not cross or desert you. You could train them up as you gain experience.
4. In gamed hired NPC skill level will be based on price and will be subject to being kept happy. IE Salary being paid, good accommodation facilities etc.
BAsed on this speculation!! I believe the crew facilities on ships now make sense. For example why would any player choose a crews social module on the Retailiator over a missile bay unless they liked a bit of RP? I believe this is how the will nerf players with crewed NPC ships. If you have NPC then you need to keep them satisfied. Having crew facilities on ships will do this allowing them to eat, drink...bla bla... But all player ships won't need that. A all player taili will be able to go long distances with two torpedo bays. A NPC ship will need to keep the NPC happy and replace one torpedo bay with a social module giving the player ship the advantage and in doing so forcing players to play the way the game was intended ... With Multiplayers and if your going to take the game on at a PVP level you need a dedicated org.
This is only my theory remember and I could be way out !!
EDIT:Haha..Galatoni must have posted at the same time ... :)
Great write up Galatoni. There's so much info coming out of CIG at the moment that I have absolutely no idea where this came from but I understood that a player could staff their ship with NPC's who would cost more the better their 'stats' were and who could be hired as a one off or taken as a permanent crew member and levelled like a game asset owned by the player. A ship crewed with NPC's would be fine if the player was marked as non PVP and was up against player generated pirates or Vandul. But if the player took an NPC crewed ship into a PVP session it would probably end badly for them. That's my understanding anyway.
There is no non PVP areas really, there is a slider to decide on how much PVP you would prefer high or low, but once you go into unsafe non UEE zones you can still get attacked by PVP players just less often if your slider is PVE.
But again this may change.
Yeah i'm not expecting a Turret-God from my NPC slot, or for it to be free (in game credits), but as per all the rumors, NPC's, how ever they finally get implemented, will it seems vary in skill level and cost and i'd put good money on our NPC slot from extra game packages will start out with an uber low skilled and cheap grease monkey NPC... but never the less, if i pop online and there's no one about, i'd rather have random bullets/lazers firing from my turret so at least anyone attacking me THINKS i'm not solo, than a clearly unmanned turret :)
Back on my ship topic, if the Wardens turret is player only operated, then i'll stick with my Super Hornet as my small combat ship ! I'm still unsure on cargo ship, i'm edging to Freelancer Max though, i'm off the Hull B idea from my experience in E: D ... running a ton of cargo to a destination, collecting your creds, then finding a hugely profitable, time gated mission, that requires at least some fire power, but you're in a ship with zero maneuverability and a pea shooter is not fun !
I must admit. I thought I was happy with my little fleet but it seems I'm not as confident as I was. Some of my ships I've basically bought for org use. Carrack and the Gemini. Others I've got (or are waiting for) are for exploration and such like. The tana (waiting for upgrade now the science variant if it comes out again) and a cutlass which i may be upgrading to a red or use it to explore hulks. My military ship is the warden. But I've realised I'm not a trader by heart and I dot want my starting lineup to have any.
Aside from my phoenix (which is my limo ;) ) I've got a spare lti ship (thanks Andybee) which I'm uncertain what to do with. I might grab a civvie hornet, a tracker or ghost. Not sure yet.
Ha, this is what happens when you start a reply and then leave the post to go have a cup of coffee before coming back to hit the post button, someone posts a much more comprehensive reply than mine.... :D
Quote from: Galatoni;409737I must admit. I thought I was happy with my little fleet but it seems I'm not as confident as I was. Some of my ships I've basically bought for org use. Carrack and the Gemini. Others I've got (or are waiting for) are for exploration and such like. The tana (waiting for upgrade now the science variant if it comes out again) and a cutlass which i may be upgrading to a red or use it to explore hulks. My military ship is the warden. But I've realised I'm not a trader by heart and I dot want my starting lineup to have any.
Aside from my phoenix (which is my limo ;) ) I've got a spare lti ship (thanks Andybee) which I'm uncertain what to do with. I might grab a civvie hornet, a tracker or ghost. Not sure yet.
It's hard work isn't it ! They've just added the "unmelt with store credits option" too (1 buyback every 3 months with store credit I think) so that's just sealed the Freelancer Max for me as I can buyback one of my old LTI Freelancer packages then CCU it to a Max for only marginally more than Ccuing from my spare LTI Aurora ! Meaning I have 4 game packages and still a spare LTI Aurora for .... Who knows what in the future ?
I'm also intrigued to see what happens after the 14th Feb when SQ42 and SC actually split, at some point I'm guessing we will get some UEC for our extras like we did for Alpha, the forums will explode if they just merge 4 copies of SQ42 into 1 with no compensation :ranting2:
I've copied the rest of this thread over to the Multi Crew Ships Thread (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?42185-Multi-Crew-Ships).
Just a note anyone with ships to unmelt, now we have a single use token to use store credits to unmelt 1 item, it's really worth taking a look at your unmelt list if you have store credit hanging about, if you use store credits you do not pay VAT (in the UK) so the prices at checkout are actually minus 20% of what it says under Buyback in your Hangar section, they are non giftable if bought with credit so you can't give to friends, but I unmelted my Freelancer LTI Package that was listed as $132 for $110 store credit then CCU'd it to a Max for $30 which was listed at $36.... Quiet a decent saving and worth a look in your list I'd say !
For my fleet I can say that im generally happy with how it's set out. It's well rounded and has a good mixture of multicrew and Solo ships. It brakes down most of the key roles and has a gradual increase in cargo space.
I would love to fit the Endeavor in there but I would need to melt and it messes with my balance. But again it's in the melt store if I change my mind. But for me, I'm more about how comfortable I feel in the PU with the ships. Yes the PU will change over time but some of those changes may not be how we envisioned them when we first thought about how the ship would work. Turrets and the importance of having crew members is a big one in the PU presently. Also, having a ship watch your back helps for things like landing to refuel. I thought that bigger ships would dominate play but I can still see the importance of small ships in this game. Which is great for new players entering the game or backers that don't want to spend a fortune.
I can't 'finalise my ship line up' but I can say where I am now. But it's still going to be a ongoing, trial and error mismatch of ships until I at least fly them all. And only then will I decide, so here's where I am:
Hull B (Hauler) Misc (384) 1 crew
Starfarer (Industry) Misc (3321) (or 2488) 8 crew
BMM (Trader) Banu (5018) 8 crew
Super Hornet - (Military) Anvil (0) 1 crew
Carrack (Group Exploration) - Anvil (1058) 6 crew
DUR (Solo Exploration) - Misc (52) 1/2 crew
Possibly a Sabre, Warden or Xi'an scout to finish up 1 crew, but I night sacrifice one of the above ships.
PS, I've forgot about the Mustang Beta.... This little ship really impressed me while flying it and I may swap it out to being my solo explorer.. See what I mean. :)
Quote from: Kal-Nor;409823Super Hornet - (Military) Anvil (0) 1 crew
I'm sure you already know this, but the Super Hornet is a 2 person ship, although likely very flyable with 1 person.
I know it's each to his own etc, but that's just too many ships for me.... it's not a money thing, i just feel i personally want to have something to aim for in the PU, i will absolutely want to buy an exploration ship and some type of luxury yacht in game, plus probably trade in my "starter" ships for better versions, or possibly due to the way the game is being designed it's more likely my Super Hornet, Cutlass and Lancer Max will not get replaced, just upgraded with high quality components. At the end of the day, whichever gameplay style you choose, ultimately won't we be doing whatever we're doing to earn credits to buy and upgrade ships & equipment ?
Quote from: TeaLeaf;409825I'm sure you already know this, but the Super Hornet is a 2 person ship, although likely very flyable with 1 person.
True but it seems to make it less of a ship with two players. Maybe in the future the second seat will be a benefit but until then it's a one man crew and the other seat is for a passenger.
Quote from: AndyBee;409831I know it's each to his own etc, but that's just too many ships for me.... it's not a money thing, i just feel i personally want to have something to aim for in the PU, i will absolutely want to buy an exploration ship and some type of luxury yacht in game, plus probably trade in my "starter" ships for better versions, or possibly due to the way the game is being designed it's more likely my Super Hornet, Cutlass and Lancer Max will not get replaced, just upgraded with high quality components. At the end of the day, whichever gameplay style you choose, ultimately won't we be doing whatever we're doing to earn credits to buy and upgrade ships & equipment ?
Totally agree, I wanted to start with less ships and I still may. The Carrack is my main ship and I'd happily melt a few ships if it turns out that the carrack has modules that can replace the roles of the other ships. Personally I wanted to focus on Exploration but until I see some idea of how credits are earned then I'll keep my trading ships and Fuel ship.
It also depends on the organisation and how that plays out. Some are very communal and encourage group play meaning that the need for many ships is minimal but others are very solo focused and information or knowledge is the only shared asset. Im new here so I'm yet to decide.
Lastly, I don't want to spend my SC game grinding and trying to rush for the ship I really want. I want to take my time and relish the story behind every adventure I have. Having a primary ship in each role helps me experience this at a slower pace. I've played to many mmo at a pace I don't feel I've experienced the story. I still have goals like the Reclaimer, Endeavor or even upgrading my present ships, but I don't have the need to rush towards them. Enjoying the game is at my own pace is going to be my goal. :)
Weirdly having said that i may buy one more yet :yahoo:
Whilst looking at my "unmelts" now the 3 monthly token that allows you to use credits is here, as i pointed out below you don't pay VAT on store credit purchases, so that $300 Full Mill' Spec LTI Retaliator in my unmelt list is actually only $250 in credits, coupled with the fact i have 1 LTI Aurora package to sell on Reddit that for credits i can probably sell for $70+, and i have some credits over still, AND people are selling store credits at 75-85% of cost on Reddit, i can probably buy it for about $100 of my actual money.... which is very tempting as an Org ship !
I only recently melted the Talli', it was blindingly obvious within about 5 minutes of flying it, it NEEDS a full crew, but if i can pick it up cheap it's still tempting, especially with all the available, planned and rumored modules, it could fill a variety of roles for me personally, exploration, salvage, mining etc and still be useful for the Org' as a bad ass Torpedo boat or drop ship... Damn this game :blink:
Chipping into the discussion - for me it's fight, fun and funds.
Fight - I currently have the Aegis Avenger Titan which is actually a blinding fighter. It suits my style of dog fighting which is fly in fast, unload everything and circle back round for another run. I was going to use the Origin 325a for this role but the Avenger for me is just a nicer ship.
Fun - Freelancer DUR. It's going to be my home in space and what I'll use to explore the galaxy. When the crew slot feature is fully sorted and the cost of extra crew slots is announced I might move up in size through the explorer ships. I'm also watching the Caterpillar closely as this looks like very modular fun ship. So I might go that route rather than Constellation and Carrack .
Funds - still to fill but probably a cargo hauler. At the moment it's looking like a Hull C which I'd like to fund with UEC as and when ships stop being purchasable with real money and move over to being bought in game with game currency. I have no clue how much work will be involved in raising the money in game to buy a Hull C so this all just so much theory at the moment. But it's my planned first in game ship
After that I have no idea. It really depends on how multiplayer pans out, how much we can earn crewing for other players etc etc.
It's nice to hear everyone else's plans aren't to dissimilar to mine !
On the funds issue i really hope things are bloody expensive and hard to find occasionally in game ! Maybe that's harsh as we sit here discussing which 2, 3 or 4, ££ bought ships we will start the game with, but if i go with my plan i outlined i want it to be a challenge to upgrade to the best armor and weapons on my SH, or to find the most fuel efficient engines for my Max, and it should cost a fortune and perhaps involve a ludicrously long convoluted trip to find that weird module i want for the Retaliator .... i'll be gutted if i can just throw my CC at the screen and still buy anything anywhere once we get whatever we are going to class as "launch day".
I guess they will probably balance it so that progression is tough but not impossible. The game has to work for all the players who start post "launch" with an Aurora. They will want be able to earn money to start upgrading ships and should be able to make reasonable progress. If the Freelancer they want is going to take months and months of play time to get I image many will just give up and go play something else. Don't think anyone can realistically expect to be owning an 890 Jump in a few weeks but new players are going to want to enjoy the smaller to mid size ships without having to sink hundreds of hours into the game. The balance that CIG needs to hit is to make the big ships worth going for but keep them a real achievement to get. Exactly what that balances is I have no idea but CIG get paid the big bucks to work these things out.
I do think that those of us who bought or favourite ships will probably think the time frame too short and new players will moan that getting the Carrack takes far too long.
No I agree totally, I don't see a problem in "noobs" (for want of a much better word) being able to progress from an Aurora to a mid size ship in a reasonable time so they don't get scared off, but as you say at 890 jump should be a big step, I think the bigger juggling act is components, I think going from standard to top end components in any ship should be a big and expensive job ! When pilots are equally skilled, at combat or say mining, those really top end components are going to make a difference, and I hope will require some amount of dedication to acquire at least in some instances !
Ooops i tripped over and landed on an Kruger P72 Archimedes with LTI.... in case i ever fancy a race :doh: *cough*
Ohh thank god for Melting, Buybacks, AC and REC... I've been playing about this week with all sorts of stuff, and with a few mates, and soo glad I did !
As it turns out my plans were flawed :doh: .... even without a working HUD the Lancer and Cutlass are just two similar for me, I intended them filling different roles, but once you bring a friend to the (turret) party it just became apparent they are incredibly similar, except, in my opinion the Lancer was actually nicer to fly, it's forward firepower is currently awesome, it has more cargo space and according to my gunner the turret has a much better FOV.... assuming all things are equal when HUD's arrive and turret targeting etc is fixed the Lancer wins this dual in my book now i've flown both. So i did some juggling, melted my Lancer and upgraded my Cutlass Black to a Lancer DUR, which has left me with a weird "Pirate Pack" which now includes a docking collar, tractor beam, skull and crossbones skin and an exploration ship :rolleyes:
Next week's plan is to use more REC to load out the Avenger and Hornet as they will be in the 'verse as i'm 100% my Super Hornet is going to be traded for one of those 2, i'm just not a full time combat/pvp/dogfighter type of player and to have $170 worth of dedicated combat ship that can fill virtually no other roles is a waste for me, both the Hornet and Avenger will provide me with still serious firepower for escort/combat duty etc but also some cargo capacity for solo play, whilst saving me $80-$100...
Then i just need to decide my final ship, which i definitely want to be something BIG, Multicrew and modular-ish, or at least versatile, that can be used with a few mates or re-speced for Org' use.... still thinking the Retaliator maybe, but if i can find a Pheonix upgrade that's tempting to, and oooooo that Carrack is HUGE and great value with its Rover and Snub ship also...
And i have that LTI P72 for racing... or "just incase" something pops up i can't resist in future concept sales i need to CCU to...
Again opinions and/or your experiences and thoughts welcomed :D