Dead Men Walking

Old Server Admin Section => Archived Topics => PCS Map Discussion => Topic started by: TeaLeaf on May 06, 2002, 08:17:52 PM

Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 06, 2002, 08:17:52 PM
Following in Oldie's most excellent lunchtime footsteps, I have to confess to suffering an attack of the typing equivalent of the 'shits' that he had on LAN weekend.  I agreed with all of the PCS rules that he set out and thought it would be helpful to at least put down my own interpretation of where I see PCS boundaries for other maps.  Maybe I typed too much as I have now developed RSI in my typing foot.  So I thought that now would be a good point to stop, put on the flame retardant jacket and wait for the incendiary responses to explode somewhere in my own general vicinity.

There will be some maps where we will need to debate the boundaries in more detail, so for the timebeing please remember that the map boundaries set out are just 'my' interpretation or best guess.   Thanks.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Tutonic on May 06, 2002, 08:54:28 PM
:roll:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 07, 2002, 07:21:37 PM
:?: Rolling eyes....hmmmm.....How should I take that?  I'll assume it was criticism until told otherwise  :oops:

Hasn't anyone got any comments about the map boundaries :!:

Maybe we got it right first time......... :roll:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: SecretSquirrel on May 08, 2002, 08:51:37 AM
Ye i got a comment - too many to remember - so no shouting at me when i put a toe over the wrong line.
 How about modifying the maps to include some red boundary lines 8O
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 08, 2002, 07:52:26 PM
One cannister or red spray paint has been despatched to you in today's post.  Spray onto monitor at the point you wish the line to appear.....
 :D
Title: Map Boundaries
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2002, 11:00:46 AM
:D
Would it be possible to have the list of map boundaries available as a downloadable text file or collated onto a single page. Us old duffers have trouble with our, erm,  "watchamacallits" you know! Oh yes, memories.

Seriously though, I saw the post in Blueyonder about the servers and think it is a real good idea. However, I feel that there may be a lot of us new people coming on board and having to remember the limits will be tricky. We don't want to spoil the game for those who know the server rules well and a single sheet aide-memoire would be good.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Stryker on July 11, 2002, 12:29:29 PM
you kinda get a feel for boundaries having played PCS for a few weeks.  Its common sense really... if your on the defending team then generally any great divides between the objective you guard and the oppositions spawn point is a boundary.

or am I talking bollocks?
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: smite on July 11, 2002, 12:57:00 PM
ill go with Bollocks
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Stryker on July 11, 2002, 01:56:16 PM
what you doin out your sweat shop.... erm spray shop.

git back in thar.
Title: Re: Map Boundaries
Post by: OldBloke on July 11, 2002, 01:58:40 PM
Quote... I feel that there may be a lot of us new people coming on board and having to remember the limits will be tricky. We don't want to spoil the game for those who know the server rules well ...

Hi BlueBall,

To be honest the majority of boundaries are just common sense and after you've been playing PCS for a while it's second nature. Even if we all had to play on a brand new map tomorrow we'd all know that bombsites and hostages need guarding.

In general:

1. Do not go through enemy spawn.
2. Guard the hostages/defend the bombsites.
3. If in doubt - ask. We're here to help.

No-one's gonna bite yer head off for making a mistake.

Hope to see you soon. Enjoy.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Rad_Man on July 11, 2002, 01:59:23 PM
aztec .... CT's .... Double Doors....... why can't we poke our heads around the door and shoot the mothers.....technically not crossing the boundary?
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: OldBloke on July 11, 2002, 02:09:00 PM
Quoteaztec .... CT's .... Double Doors....... why can't we poke our heads around the door and shoot the mothers.....technically not crossing the boundary?

Because you are there to defend the bombsites not get cheap kills. The area inside the double doors is a safe haven for the Ts to plot their attack strategies. You may be glad of that one day  :wink:
Title: Thanks for reply
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2002, 02:20:01 PM
Cheers for all responses. looking forward to joining in  :D
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Rad_Man on July 11, 2002, 02:41:17 PM
Good point Oldie , your name will now be known as OldWiseBloke.  I hear and therefore see.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Stryker on July 11, 2002, 04:23:40 PM
hey! I said about the same thing too!  wheres my cudos?  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Rad_Man on July 11, 2002, 04:34:10 PM
You shot me in the back!!!!!
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: DogMeat on July 11, 2002, 06:21:40 PM
There is a proverb (probably Chinese) that says if you wait by a river long enough, you will see the bodies of your enemies float past.

On MH, if you play often enough, you will eventually be TK'd by Stryker...  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: smite on July 11, 2002, 06:24:26 PM
ROFL
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Stryker on July 11, 2002, 07:17:52 PM
How about, "wise man not shoot dogmeat with AWP, cos dogmeat big pissy pants sissybaby".
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Rad_Man on July 11, 2002, 07:39:48 PM
very funny doctor jones very funny - :-)  :lol:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 26, 2002, 12:09:21 AM
Inferno. This evening. My sincere apologies for shooting some poor sod in the back. I shouldn't have come down the centre from ct spawn. It's not big and it's not clever. :(  I didn't read the rules properly and am available to take my punishment at any time convenient to the relavent authorities. Grovel, grovel, grovel.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 26, 2002, 08:46:33 AM
No problem Doorman, particularly as it it wasn't me that you shot  :lol:
Everyone takes a bit of time to get used to boundary limits, but you'll quickly get the hang of them as they are mostly common sense for the PCS style of play.  

Anyway, nobody will be out to get revenge and shoot YOU in the back........oh, hold on, well maybe Stryker.  Strykeeeeerr!!  Where are you Stryker?   Just watch out if he is on your team - You have been warned  :wink:

TL.  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JB on August 26, 2002, 01:15:56 PM
Yes further to that incident Doorman was told not to come down from the centre on inferno as it was "non-pcs" but on the same map i was told that CT's are DEFINATELY allowed to advance down from the left bombsite to where the T's exit(where the ladder is) now to me they both end up in the same place and both and the same goal.  Now they cant both be right surely.

Apologies are expected from the following people:-

1) Tut
2) Smite

3) Frenzy (just because he joined at a time when i was having the game of my life, only for it to come to a prompt end)  :(
Title: de_inferno PCS Map Limits
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 26, 2002, 01:49:42 PM
JB you can relax - they're NOT both right.  The published map limits for de_inferno can be read here: http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45 (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45)  
I would guess that many of us (myself included) have been breaking these self-imposed map limits recently and we should probably all try to tighten up on our PCS skills - too many clan matches wrecks your PCS karma  :)  At a guess, these are the three most broken map limits on de_inferno:

(1) CT's can come down the centre, but only as far as the junction with the pathway under the snipers window. This means that CT's can look straight down either middle route and into the new route corridor through the archway, but may not go down the middle routes or into the new route corridor.  
(2) CT's at the 'new route' site may not go further into the corridor (leading from the balcony) than the first dogleg in the corridor.
(3) CT's at the 'top site' may not go further than the 'square' immediately beyond the archway leading to the long passage.

  Reminder: All rules are off once the bomb has been planted.  

Hope this helps.

TL.  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: sheepy on August 26, 2002, 02:13:40 PM
just a question, but thinkk it common sense that the boundries can be slightly flexible in certain situations, ie if the bomb is dropped in the "new route" ct's should be alowed to advance down the corrdoor [on no that not right i cant spell] to the stairs in order to cover the bomb properly. eg just jusmp thru that lttle grate and hide behind the wall so that you r on hte right to t's commin up the stairs.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: smite on August 26, 2002, 03:25:56 PM
Now JB you aint getting an appology from me because i agreed with you that CT's are not allowed there and i also Mentioned to Tutonic that you were not allowed down the other route (coming from behind) both occasions someone said it was because the bomb had been planted when it had definetly not.
To all regulars please keep on top of PCS as i am trying to tell people of the limits i know and someone is coming along (from dMw mostly) and ignoring them.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JB on August 26, 2002, 05:10:30 PM
I hereby do formerly apologize the the folowing people unreservedly:-

1) Smite


Thats it.   :lol:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 26, 2002, 05:41:53 PM
Just to clear up my misdemeaner, I didn't actually go down the ramp but came out of the entrance to the left (1st dogleg) I know it amounts to the same thing but I got overexcited.  :oops: Blood was up.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 26, 2002, 06:18:55 PM
Quotejust a question, but thinkk it common sense that the boundries can be slightly flexible in certain situations, ie if the bomb is dropped in the "new route" ct's should be alowed to advance down the corrdoor [on no that not right i cant spell] to the stairs in order to cover the bomb properly. eg just jusmp thru that lttle grate and hide behind the wall so that you r on hte right to t's commin up the stairs.

You're right Sheepy - it's not a question, it's a common sense statement.  CTs have every right to do that and the same common sense can and should be applied by everyone to the map limits.

If at the end of the day we find a map limit doesn't work we'll change it to make sure it does.

TL.  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 26, 2002, 07:34:35 PM
Let me get this straight. Are these map boundaries decided by dMw or are they a code of PCS?  :?  If I go on another  PCS server will the same rules apply or will I get shot in the back?
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: OldBloke on August 26, 2002, 08:29:18 PM
There's only two schools of PCS as far as I'm aware. Here's my understanding.

PCS style of playing CS was 'invented' by Apophis of Network42 fame (a US server farm).

What we play on the Meat Hook is our bastardised version of his concept.

I think it's fair to say that we are a little more 'relaxed' in our version than the N42 flavour. This is probably because we haven't been as popular as N42 was in the past. They had their fair share of 'spoilers' joining the server and in response they tightened and documented their rules to a fine degree. Persistant transgressors were jumped on from a great height. They had huge debates about realism, flanking, rushing, boundaries etc etc. Admins were appointed to keep the troops in line and they had a code of conduct that any major gaming organisation would be proud of. The downside was that it was very rigid. The games became less fun than they might have been. Map rotations were experimented with to find maps that better suited the PCS style. This entailed hefty downloads for newcomers (who also had a lot of reading to do as well).
For all that I really enjoyed playing there and I'm sure if they were UK based I'd still be a regular.

On the other hand there's us. Our style is really so simple it's child's play.

Attackers - Plant the bomb / Rescue the hostages / Escort the VIP to safety.
Defenders - Guard the bombsites/hostages / Stop the VIP escaping.
All - Work as a team to complete your objective.

The map boundaries are, to some extent, unneccesary.

Take this discussion about inferno. Is there a bombsite at the ladder area? No there aint. So why are CTs there? If they were in position guarding the bombsites instead of trying to hold known choke points there wouldn't be a problem. But what about when the team guarding bombsite A (on any DE map) calls for backup. The question is always going to be "What route can the team at B be allowed to take to enable them to get to A asap"?

Discuss.  :D
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 27, 2002, 08:51:21 AM
Don't you just love it when rules start getting interpreted? I was meandering through the N42 forum when I came upon this post:-

Just to clarify some issues that have recently come up concerning boundaries.

On Network 42, your first two priorities in gameplay are Team and Objectives. EVERYTHING that you do in a game should be done with these two priorities in mind! With that said, we want to make it clear that in CS there are generally observed boundaries that the defensive team should confine themselves to in the beginning of every round. These boundaries are obviously not strict lines, but are defined by your priorities. There is no way for a member of the defense to be supporting his teammates OR to be defending an objective if he is too far forward. But a funny thing happens when the offensive team initiates contact with the defensive team: the boundaries in relation to your priorities CHANGE! If your teammates are taking fire, then your first priority is to assist them using the best possible tactics available while still defending your objective if possible.
This is quite obvious on de_maps where the CT team is generally split in half to guard the two bomb sites. Once the terrorists have made contact and the bomb has been sited by CT teammates, you had best haul ass over to help your team! If you can flank the attackers while doing so, all the better! But your flanking maneuver is NOT a license to hunt. If the aggressors retreat and your teammates are out of immediate danger, your priority reverts back to your original objective. And if the bomb wasn't sited during the initial assault, you should compromise your effort to support your team with the knowledge that your original defensive position still needs to be protected... Decisions, decisions....

On cs_maps, defensive boundaries won't shift as much upon first contact with the assault force. This is simply because your objective is in a fixed location. There are still occasions when your teammates may be able to hold off the entire CT team while you flank, but unless they're confident of their ability to hold them off and you're sure that it's not a distraction, you should find another way to support your teammates. Flanking tactics will probably be seen a LOT less on cs_maps... Until, that is, the hostages are touched. At that point I think everyone knows what they need to do. Haul ass to get those hostages!

Obviously I can't give you an example of every situation that might come up, but if you always keep first your team and then your objective in the forefront of every tactical decision that you make, you won't go wrong on Network 42...

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to excuse myself, nor am I a barrackroom lawyer, I just find it interesting how rules are interpreted by different folks and it makes me feel a little less like a REAL plonker. :)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Dr Sadako on August 27, 2002, 12:29:02 PM
QuoteI think it's fair to say that we are a little more 'relaxed' in our version than the N42 flavour.

Yes this is true ... 6-8 months ago. Now I must say that dMw is way stricter than N42. On N42 we do not have any "boundaries". So when contact have been taken you are free, to some extent, to flank the enemy as long as the objective isn't compromised. This have made N42 much more challanging and not as static as before. If you read Doormans post above you see what I mean.

QuoteBut a funny thing happens when the offensive team initiates contact with the defensive team: the boundaries in relation to your priorities CHANGE! If your teammates are taking fire, then your first priority is to assist them using the best possible tactics available while still defending your objective if possible.

This makes the maps way tougher for both teams.

This is why I was surprised when I was told off when I as CT flanked long A on de_dust2 at the T end. Contact had been made, bomb was spotted, Ts hadn't moved for over a minute hence I engaged to help my teammates.
This is why I think dMw has become more strict than N42.

My five,
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 27, 2002, 12:59:42 PM
Still rankles huh?  :D
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Dr Sadako on August 27, 2002, 01:43:15 PM
QuoteStill rankles huh? :D

If I remember correctly I got you at least. :D
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 27, 2002, 02:39:33 PM
Sorry mate, all that was before I appeared. Must have been someone else. I was just making an observation 's all  :D
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Dr Sadako on August 27, 2002, 02:45:21 PM
QuoteSorry mate, all that was before I appeared. Must have been someone else. I was just making an observation 's all :D

I'll get you next time. ;)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Doorman on August 27, 2002, 02:48:17 PM
Now that I DO believe. I'm not much of a scalp though.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Dr Sadako on August 27, 2002, 02:56:42 PM
QuoteNow that I DO believe. I'm not much of a scalp though.

A scalp is a scalp is a scalp ...  :twisted:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JonnyAppleSeed on October 03, 2002, 04:30:57 PM
As far as map limits go would it be possible to add a comment  to the loading screen..each time you connect you see the rules for that map...??????
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: sheepy on October 03, 2002, 04:52:38 PM
may b a bit difficult coz the stuff at the start when u load up is fixed [i think]
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JB on October 03, 2002, 05:08:27 PM
Well its not fixed, but it is kept at the client sider and not server.  If you look in your maps folder for cs there's a text file for each map with the welcome note and thats where its all kept.
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: sheepy on October 03, 2002, 06:14:02 PM
o u meen that bit, i got confused, i thught u ment the txt as u enter the server
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JonnyAppleSeed on October 03, 2002, 06:29:03 PM
the info i mean is on the server side...i think...the bit with the clan mod info...

and JB i think u may be correct for the first time in your life   :thumbsup:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JB on October 03, 2002, 07:27:59 PM
What! What! What!  When have i ever admitted to being wrong?   :lol:
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: FrEnZy on October 03, 2002, 08:08:06 PM
The map details are kept client side i think.

Also the server message you see at start isn't set by map and putting in all the boundaries in the one msg would'nt work!

Unless admin mod can be played with to do messages to a player dependant on map, i dont think it can be done.

 :idea: IF the info for each map is client side is it in the .BSP or a sepurate .txt?

Because if its a .TXT we could make a PCS set for people to download, just another little idea....
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: JonnyAppleSeed on October 04, 2002, 04:18:19 PM
yehh i thought about that a little PCS Mod zip .....with map info.. :P
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: MAD_ness on March 17, 2003, 01:04:31 PM
CS_Shogun

I'm not sure but I think we should re-consider the T boundaries for when you're in the tower !!

As CT you can make your way along the top round to the tower opposite the hossy rooms.

twice last night I got picked off by someone coming up the tower from the hossy room below and taking me out from behind (ooooer) whilst involved in a fight with someone in the top room with the hossies ......

IMO not PCS ...what does everyone think ?????

me ducks ready for barrage of abuse !!!!
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: TeaLeaf on March 17, 2003, 05:45:05 PM
I think one of the great things about this map is that there are 4 different entrances to the hossie building.  IMO the 'tree-house' is fair game for the Ts as they have to look out for snipers from other CT positions.  CTs shoudl advance cautiously, take and secure each area, and attack via several routes simultaneously.  In this way the Ts have a real tough time on this map - if the Ts start to win then it is inevitably down to either really close rounds or poor CT voicecoms.

Anyway, having made the mistake once, you won;t do it again will you?   :D

Oh  8O  you already did, didn't you....  :lol:

TL.  8)
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: smite on March 17, 2003, 06:28:13 PM
I personally agree with MAD on this as i was finding it very annoying last night. The hut area doesnt really fit in with the normal boundaries that we are used to and feels a little odd and i dont like it so there  :D
Anyone else????
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: smilodon on March 17, 2003, 06:43:10 PM
Maybe we could allow the T's to use the rope bridge and upper deck of the hut, but not let them use the area outside the lower hossie room, the ladder to the ground and the ramp up to the hut upper room. A CT inside the upper  hut room would be certain that a T couldn't flank them from the ramp. The T's could still move into the upper hut room to take on the CT's at the beginning of the round.

Of course a T returning from a chase after a hossie rescue could still shoot them all in the back on his or her way home  :?
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Benny on March 18, 2003, 09:50:26 AM
I think the T's should be allowed across the bridge, but not out of the rope hut, but also should be allowed onto the lower platform.

There is no reason that the CT's should be able to blunder up to within 3 ft of the hossies, without seeing any T's.

CT's from the top route should be able to clear that platform and bridge room. CT's taking the middle route also have plenty of cover to clear both. As do the lower route guys.

my 2 anyway
Title: Map boundaries
Post by: Dr Sadako on March 18, 2003, 10:08:26 AM
QuoteThe map details are kept client side i think.

Also the server message you see at start isn't set by map and putting in all the boundaries in the one msg would'nt work!

Unless admin mod can be played with to do messages to a player dependant on map, i dont think it can be done.

 :idea: IF the info for each map is client side is it in the .BSP or a sepurate .txt?

Because if its a .TXT we could make a PCS set for people to download, just another little idea....

I think there is a separate text for each map. If you push the "info" button that text will appear describing the objective with the map. If we would implement the PCS boundaires in this text everyone need to download it ...

It is maybe easier just to read the forum?