So I recently bought this,
http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7394551
I'm finding the gameplay of some games very laggy and i'm not too sure why - I can barely run PUBG so can understand it from that point of view ( what do i need to upgrade?.....the ram to 16gb? help).
But playing Arma on Sunday we had a lot of people on and I found the game very laggy almost as if the computer couldn't handle that many players.
My technical knowhow of pc's isn't that great and ideally i'd like games to run more smoothly - I'd also like to stream live (not necessarily a priority) PUBG as this currently maxe's out my cpu and runs the game very laggy - it just about manages to record and save gameplay via shadowplay.
I'm not particularly too fussed about graphics and always found myself putting the settings to med/low (even though I could run it higher) as I prefer it that way but at times it's really horrible gaming because of the issues above & don't really understand why.
What do I need to upgrade to ease my issues.
Thanks in advance for advice given.
Hi DD.
It sounds like you're experiencing a CPU bottleneck. I'll write a long and short version of this out just in case.. I rather enjoyed writing the long one!
Short version... The cpu in your pc is fairly weak. Its a dual core i3, which is just not built for CPU-heavy gaming or streaming. Games like 4 physical cores, and a more powerful cpu, like one of the i5 or i7s ones. You can try turning down the quality both in game (particularly draw/view distance) and when streaming, but if it still struggles then there isn't really any way to improve things other than with a whole new CPU.
You can replace the cpu with another LGA 1151 (https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/cpu-intel-desktop/core-i5-kaby-lake-processors) one, but this could be expensive. I would not suggest you do this alone if you have not before, but you could bring the parts to the LAN for us to help.
I would not upgrade the other parts of the PC (RAM and so on) at this time, I don't think they are the cause of the problem you are describing here.
Upgrading the graphics card (the 1050ti isn't a very powerful card, in the same way that the i3s aren't very powerful CPUs) would improve the performance in games (some more than others), but will have little impact on streaming - as this is a mostly CPU-dependent task. A new graphics card will cost you as much (if not more) than a new CPU, which is why I would personally upgrade the CPU first - it will improve performance in ALL of the areas you are struggling with.
PLEASE check with us or someone else in the know before you make any purchase though, as not ALL LGA 1151 CPUs will work in your PC due to potential differences in the motherboard.. if the CPU is a 'Kaby Lake' part, it should work, but a 'Coffee Lake' (also LGA 1151) CPU will likely NOT work with the rest of your PC.
[SPOILER=The LONG version :D]That PC has a dual core i3 CPU. It has 2 cores and 4 'threads'.
So what does that mean? Think of it like water pipes, where the water is the information the CPU must process. That CPU has 2 physical pipes, but it's able to raise a divider in the middle of each pipe to split it into 2 lanes. When both dividers are up, it gives us 4 lanes for the water to travel through. These lanes are narrow though, as each is only half the width of the pipe. However you look at it, you're always still moving only 2 pipes worth of water at a time. It simply isn't going to move as much water as say 4 or more physical pipes.
This matters as games these days like 4 physical cores, or rather 4 physical pipes. Having 2 pipes, even with this divider that gives us 4 lanes, is not quite as good, as at the end of the day the water is still 2 pipes worth.
That's the first problem, that you've too few physical cores for CPU demanding processes like Arma and Streaming.
The next comes with the 'power' of those cores. That 3.9GHz number refers to the 'speed', but it's a bit more complicated than that. Those gigahertz are not all created equal. Here is where the i3 bit hampers you. An i3 CPU running at a speed of 3.9 will not perform anywhere near the level as an i5 or an i7 running at 3.9GHz. The CPU simply does less work per GHz than a 'better' CPU. i3 CPUs are not built with cutting edge performance in mind, and they are not the best at intensive tasks like building large worlds (Arma) or processing bulk information behind the scenes (streaming).
To go back to the water works analogy, think of the i3 bit as the pump that drives the water through the pipes. An i3 pump isn't as powerful as an i5 pump. Even if they run at the same speed, the i3 moves less water per minute than an i5 (or i7) pump.
This leaves you with too few pipes and too slow a pump. It will work fine for small volumes of water (simple applications and day to day PC use), and games that don't rely on the CPU too much should be OK. Some games though rely on the CPU more than the graphics (or comparatively more at least), and these will not run as well on the CPU. You're trying to move more water than the system can handle. Streaming is an incredibly CPU intensive task.. It's like you're trying to push a tsunami through a house water pipe... It just won't work well at all.
So what can you do? Well, first you can try turning down the water. This means turning down things like the draw/view distance in ARMA, or turning down the quality of what you are trying to stream (480p instead of 720p and 30 fps instead of 60, for example). This may still not be enough. If you find the system still struggles even with your lowest tolerable settings, I'm afraid you're out of luck.. The only thing would be to replace the CPU.
Now, this is not impossible, but may be intimidating if you don't know your way around a PC. Your PC should support any Kaby Lake LGA 1151 CPU (https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/cpu-intel-desktop/core-i5-kaby-lake-processors) (careful here, as not all LGA 1151 CPUs are of the Kaby Lake family, and your motherboard may not support a different (e.g. Coffee Lake) CPU type - please check with us before you buy anything). Swapping one in involves dismantling the CPU and cooler and reassembling with the new CPU in place. If you've not done this before I would strongly suggest you either ask a friend for some help, watch a good number of YouTube how to videos, or (even better) bring the parts to the LAN and let one of us talk you through it. It's relatively easy to break things if you don't know what you're doing.
The downside of this is, of course, that it requires a whole new CPU, which can be expensive. This will always be the first thing you should upgrade on that PC (for better performance in things like ARMA and streaming at least). I would leave the RAM and HDDs and so on alone for now. The graphics card is OK, and some games would no doubt benefit from an upgrade there, but I would put this far below the CPU in terms of priority, and I do not believe that the graphics card is responsible for the problems you are describing. This is particularly true of your streaming related woes, as streaming is mostly CPU-dependent, and an upgrade to the graphics card would have little impact.
A graphics upgrade may up your ARMA and PUBG fps just as well as a CPU upgrade, but will not improve your PC's performance when streaming. A better CPU will likely improve all areas, which is why I have focused on the CPU here - a CPU is likely to provide the best 'bang for your buck'. As I said before, a dual core i3 just isn't built with heavy information processing (i.e. streaming) in mind. [/SPOILER]
Hope that is of some help.
Nice explanation chaos cheers.
What cpu should I get for a budget say 150£ I tended to use https://www.aria.co.uk/ but I’m open to use another site.
Could I go down the used cpu route?
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Well now that is a tricky question.
Problem is, although a new CPU will help, a new budget CPU may not bring about enough of a return to justify the investment. It's a case of spend £150 and get an upgrade that will improve things a bit, or save up £250 or so, and get the upgrade that will fix the problem entirely.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with the budget option, as I would rather spend £250 on a more permanent solution than £150 on a temporary one that I may end up regretting (and then dropping the £250 anyway 6 months down the road). I really would be concerned that you would get the £150 CPU and find it offered only a slight improvement in performance... its hard to say without directly testing with the rest of your machine, how much such a small upgrade would change. CPUs are still pricey bits of kit!
It is important I add that although a more powerful CPU will help significantly with streaming, and may buy you frames in Arma and PUBG, you may STILL then be limited in some games by your graphics card. A CPU upgrade may help a fair bit with some of the stuttering and frame drops, but it may not eliminate them.
As for a second hand CPU, there is no particular reason why not.. most CPUs have fairly good lifespans these days, as far as I am aware.
i would contact their cus support and say that the advertising is misleading and that you bought a computer based on that and it is no where near having the power, speed, and performance-enhancing extras you need to dominate. or is Perfect for online gaming, the gfx card is close but the cpu couldnt run anything more taxing than farm town. i would take a screen shot of the page, as they may change it. Depending how long you have had it, you could try to return it as not as advertisied. Just a thought.
I did think the Argos description was borderline in the way it described the product.
I'm just curious, I'm assuming you've added an SSD of your own to that rig as you were selling a couple?! If not, that's the first thing I'd do.
Quote from: no peanuts;429167I'm just curious, I'm assuming you've added an SSD of your own to that rig as you were selling a couple?! If not, that's the first thing I'd do.
Pnuts is right that if there isn't an SSD in there, put one of the ones you're trying to sell in! It makes the whole computer much slicker... Just a better 'place to be'.
That said, to keep on topic, an SSD will have minimal impact on gaming or streaming. It'll help load times, and may improve the loading of certain textures, but even in a game as badly optimised (:norty:) as PUBG it shouldn't cause any significant stutters... I have run PUBG (with streaming) and ARMA from my Hdd with no problems - and this is also with 8GB ram, same as DD, so it's nothing to do with the textures being stored there instead of on the disk in my case.
Even for high quality (1080/60) video recording where large amounts of data are being written to the storage, an SSD isn't essential.. Hard drives can keep up with the demand from what I have found.
I’m not interested I’m putting my ssd in their as I just don’t want to do that I bought the item not that long ago but have since lost the receipt doh.
I’m assuming I have to put an Intel cpu on there rather than the ?cost effective amd ? Say my budget went to 250 how long would the pc last me until I needed to upgrade.
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You won't be able to fit an AMD CPU in there, that is correct. It's also a case of you get what you pay for. A good AMD CPU will cost more or less the same these days... Six of one, half dozen of the other perhaps.
As for how long, it depends on a few things.
We don't really know the specifics of the motherboard, I don't think it's mentioned on the Argos site (unless I missed it). Really it's only a case of if you would be able to add some more RAM later, as you may want 16GB eventually (8 is fine for now). I'm assuming this wouldn't be a problem, as I can't imagine an LGA 1151 motherboard without 4 RAM slots (as the CPUs support DDR4) but PCs like this often have custom motherboards that don't always conform to common standards. You could have a look inside, show us a photo and maybe we could answer this bit for you. Would be good to clarify...
The next bit is the graphics card. Although you've said you're OK with low settings, at some point that card will bottleneck. It may be fine for a good number of years, or games may shoot forward in graphical complexity and leave you in the dust sooner.. It's impossible to say. It's really important for me to reiterate here that changing the CPU may not completely rid you of these problems. I don't think the graphics card is causing what you describe, but it may be contributing. It could be the CPU upgrade improves things but doesn't fully fix the problem. I just want to be sure we are managing your expectations here, as most games need both a good CPU and a good graphics card, particularly if the PC is performing an intensive task like streaming in the background.
With that said, a £250 CPU, in a system where you are able to increase the RAM and always have the option of upgrading the graphics card later (this won't be a problem technically speaking) should last you 5+ years, I would say. Others may give more pessimistic estimates.. But there is mine. I'm still using an i7 4770k (2013) and don't see myself upgrading in the next year or two.
So for ram I have an 8gb sk Hynix pc4 2400t
As for the motherboard I’ve checked several sites and it lists it nowhere it has the Lenovo stamp on it. But not much else
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Motherboard is Lenovo 36d9 (u3e1)
DD that has to be the worlds smallest picture taken on an iphone. Do not sell your SSD.... get it in there takes like 5mins to open the case and plug it into a spare sata port. drive will show up in windows probably as a D drive and you can then install your games on it. You would not be replacing anything just adding, unless you went down the route of re-installing windows on the ssd.. but since you are nervous about pc stuff maybe not something to try. nice easy install guide: https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/desktop-pc/how-install-ssd-in-your-pc-3374767/
Also if your thinking about changing the cpu your gonna have to crack it open anyways.
Is that a single stick of RAM??? The pictures are fairly hard to see (:devil:) but from what I can tell there are (at least) 2 RAM slots and only 1 stick?
If this is indeed the case then the easy first step is buying a second stick of RAM. Much cheaper than a CPU and may solve the problem entirely by itself tbh... I'll simply be floored if this is the case though, as how can any company sell any sort of 'gaming' PC with single channel memory?!?! Surely this can't be a real thing... I'll eat my hat if this is a real thing... Oh and lots of people should probably have words with Lenovo over misrepresentation as sulky said :roflmao:
If there are 2 sticks and I'm just being blind (looking closely I think there may be? Let's be sure before moving further) then you can ignore the RAM and we can get back to the CPU chat...
Can you get us some better pics? Particularly of the RAM areas? These are the thin horizontal sticks that rise up either side of the CPU, clipped in with little white tabs top and bottom.
And DD if you're not sure about the SSD, just bring one to the LAN (which yes I'm going to drag you to kicking and screaming eventually if you don't sign up of your own free will) I'm sure we can sort it for you on Sunday after the festivities... It's not a big job at all to install and move your OS to it.
i'll install the ssd at some point, I know how to do that. Theirs the single stick of RAM made by some company i've never heard of and no 1 is selling them anywhere sigh with regards to the pictures via iphone i'm not sure why there so small or the quality is so bad they looked good quality when i reviewed them via the phone -.-
if you use cpu-z it will provide you with the info you require about the motherboard, if you are unsure still post the screen up here. I have had the same issue since i stopped building my own computers a few years ago, not with the specs, but with ACER or HP basically colouring the board so you cant see its id
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
Nice one sulky I used another software program and it said it was a Lenovo 36d9 so hopefully the one you suggested will make it clearer
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This video runs that CPU and that GPU through PUBG. It demonstrates quite clearly that the CPU is a major bottleneck on your PC. It's running at pretty much 100% even before there is action going on around you and even with the settings knocked down (the video shows settings having to be progressively reduced in order to play). I have to agree with Sulky & Smilo though, the advertising claims seem truly awful.
[video=youtube;ViS305bfBe8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViS305bfBe8[/video]
Consider an upgrade the CPU to a compatible Kaby Lake i5 or i7. Your motherboard is Kaby Lake with a B250 chipset. It should run up to an i7-7700 (evidence (https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/908775)), however it i worth checking on the Lenovo website to see what the CPU compatibility is for the BIOS you have on that system, just to make sure!
Your current Kaby Lake i3-7100 is a £90 CPU, high clock speed @ 3.9Mhz, but low cores and it's number crunching ability is about 40% worse then a £160 Kaby lake i5-7500.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-7500-vs-Intel-Core-i3-7100/3648vs3891
£182 improves things to an i5-7600 and you get bigger improvements:
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-7600-vs-Intel-Core-i3-7100/3890vs3891
£257 bumps you up to an i7 and more improvements.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700-vs-Intel-Core-i3-7100/3887vs3891
How long will the upgrade last? At least until you find the next thing that doesn't run. If you want a precise answer you'll need to wait for us to get the piece of string out and measure it.
For my money, given that you are happy with medium settings, I wouldn't bother going more than an i5.
The best advice I would give is to talk to us before your next PC purchase or upgrade as you've unfortunately not got the best value out of the money you have spent.
Quote from: Gunda;429191Do not sell your SSD.... get it in there takes like 5mins to open the case and plug it into a spare sata port.
+1
Great advice from Gunda. Do not sell the SSD, stick it in your PC and you will notice a massive improvement in load speeds, not just on bootup, but when you load games and even in-game with map levels etc.
Nice Post from TL about the CPUs...although I'll say again I personally wouldn't bother with the £150 i5 as I'd be worried it wouldn't offer enough of an increase to make it worth it. The i7 (£250) will last longer and provide more of a tangible upgrade. Given that you can likely sell the i3 for say £50 (realistically speaking... Hopefully more like £70!), you're paying £200 for the upgrade. There isn't a right or wrong answer though, and TL's path may well be the right one for you. I'm only able to suggest what I would do, it's up to you which way you go!
Although I want to get back to this RAM issue as if there really is just 1 stick of RAM that absolutely has to be the first upgrade, as single channel memory is a joke nowadays. Are you sure on this? I just can't be sure from the pictures... cpu-z, linked by sulks, does have a memory tab that you could screenshot here for us to clarify... We could also then find matching RAM for you if lenovo seriously decided to sell you a 'gaming' PC with only 1 stick of RAM.
Firstly, there's no right answer here imo, we'll only know which would have been right after the fact, so a lot of it comes down to personal preference.
i5 is a lot better than i3 and very playable.
i7 is best by a way in terms of performance.
However, you'd not notice the difference between an i7 @50% and an i5 @ 80% in gaming terms as both play the game with headroom to spare.
Chaos is right in that the i7 is going to be best and last longest if you do not upgrade again.
However if you do upgrade again at some point in the future then the question of when you upgrade will affect the choice you should make today.
If your next upgrade will be a few years off then you'll probably get the gaming value out of pushing for the i7 now.
If like me you could not wait that long and might want to upgrade sooner then the i5 will allow you to play now and save some money towards the future upgrade, which is more than likely going to need you to upgrade not just the CPU but also the motherboard and RAM too in order to get to utilise whatever is the then current socket, chipset and RAM type.
Anyway, I found a nice PUBG video with a comparison of the i3, i5 and i7 which shows the quant in performance differences. Hope this helps.
[video=youtube;yDROy9OPXas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDROy9OPXas[/video]
Cheers TL very helpful and clear post.
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Being the boring nerd that I am, I'd always recommend you gather some hard data before dropping cash.
You should run a perfmon session (Google it, you'll find instructions) to log your CPU usage while playing some games, then go back and check out the graph. If it's often topping out at 100% and getting bottle-necked, upgrading that CPU is probably a good idea.
Given the i3's weaknesses you'll almost certainly benefit, but it would be cool to know just how much before you go ordering stuff.
DD sent me the photo of the insides and it is indeed 1 stick of RAM. I would think shoving a second channel of memory in there is the first thing to do (along with one of those SSDs).
I'd put the cpu on the back burner for now as who knows how giving it a second channel of memory to breathe with will affect performance. It may fix the problem for you.
From what you have said, this seems to be the same RAM that's in there, right?
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sk-Hynix-8GB-1Rx8-PC4-2400T-UA2-11-DDR4-19200-SDRAM-Desktop-Memory-HMA81GU6AFR8N/253378751263?hash=item3afe8ceb1f:g:lOIAAOSwMqBaWKs4
Yes that is the ram when I looked on shopping via google search I couldn’t find the stock anywhere to buy which is slightly annoying and worrying
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Quote from: .DickDastardly.;429232Yes that is the ram when I looked on shopping via google search I couldn’t find the stock anywhere to buy which is slightly annoying and worrying
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I would still be tempted to complain to argos about the advertising. Who knows worst case they say suck it up butter cup or they offer you something to make you happier, or somewhere in between, worth a go
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Oh I completely agree with sulks here. Even if you have no receipt... do you have it on a bank statement or something? I mean, with single channel memory in a so called gaming PC, I would be personally contacting the Ombudsman if Argos didn't refund it right away!
It can't hurt to try this avenue... right?
Failing that, grab the RAM from eBay. You couldn't find it before as its just some budget RAM, made by a smaller company that Lenovo will buy in bulk from.
A Bonus from work and birthday vouchers has got me a Intel Core i7-7700, just gotta wait for it to arrive now :D
Well that should certainly eliminate the CPU as a bottleneck!
With that and the dual channel ram you should be good to go. Remember your GPU is still low/mid range though, so don't expect to crank those graphics up to high. With slightly lower settings I can't imagine it'll be a problem!
A new graphics card is on the list but not for a while lol
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So dick, I know you ended up having a nightmare where the new cpu (i7) did not work with the motherboard. Not sure why, as you have a compatible socket and chipset (B250)...
What did you do in the end? I hope all is sorted now?
I think this thread should serve as a cautionary tale to anyone looking for a PC.. Ask here for some advice first and save yourself cash and the headache!
I think because lenovo and argos thats the only answer I can give...never again.
I ended up buying a new pc case, cpu,psu, Ram stick, motherboard so basically a new pc and installed it last night after my shift at work which took 2 hours as i'd not built a pc in sooooo long.
So my ordeal is over thanks for all the advice certainly a lesson well learnt!
Ah so you made use of that 7700? Added the rest to it to make a working PC?
Glad you got it sorted in the end. Sucks it was such a pain!