It's a question that comes up time and time again. I gave some monitor advice recently in discord, and thought it best to put that advice in a more concrete form here for future reference.
First of all, let's look at what technology monitors currently offer. Understanding the following terms, and what they mean to YOU is the key to finding the right monitor.
- Resolution - Most are 1080p (1920x1080), 1440p (2560x1440), or 4K (3840x2160). This is simply the number of pixels your GPU has to create for every frame it sends to the monitor.
More pixels = more work for the GPU. It has to create more pixels in every frame.
- Refresh Rate - 60Hz, 100Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz. This is the number of times a second the monitor refreshes the screen. Higher / faster is generally better, giving you smoother overall motion. Most say the benefit from 60 to 144Hz is significant, both for gaming and regular PC use. 240Hz is more for those that demand the quickest response times for top tier twitch gaming - looking at you, CS Gods.
Faster refresh rate = more work for the GPU. It has to create more frames in every second.
- Adaptive Sync - GSync and FreeSync. These technologies aim to eliminate the tearing that occurs when your GPU does not quite match the refresh rate of your monitor. Tearing can happen with ANY refresh rate (60, 144, 240, etc). These technologies aim to remove this effect.
GSync is an nVidia technology. You can only take advantage of this if your GPU is made by nVidia, and your monitor supports the tech.
FreeSync is an AMD technology. You can only take advantage of this if your GPU is made by AMD, and your monitor supports the tech.
These technologies are generally desirable, but do come at a cost premium in most cases, particularly GSync. Note that either will also introduce small amounts of input lag, which may put the twitch gamers off. See below for more on input lag. These do not otherwise affect the workload on your GPU.
Vsync vs Gsync / Freesync? These techs are very similar. Key differences below -
If your GPU runs the game HIGHER than your refresh rate (for example, you pump out a constant 100 fps on a 60Hz screen), there is NO difference between the 2 technologies at all.
If your GPU CAN'T keep up with that 60Hz, and dips to say 57 fps, GSync / Freesync MATCH the refresh rate (so, they force the monitor to display 57Hz).
VSync does not affect the refresh rate, but instead cuts the fps to a value that syncs with the monitor, usually at 2:1 - so, 30 fps on a 60Hz panel.
Both technologies eliminate tearing, but IF you are getting frequent drops in framerate, the switching from 60 fps to 30 fps and back again is very noticeable (and ugly). This is why the new technologies (Gsync and Freesync are 'better'. They keep a 1:1 sync between monitor and GPU, no matter what, giving you the smoothest stutter-free experience.- Input Lag / Response Time - the time it takes for your mouse click to result in an action on screen. Monitors quote this in milliseconds, usually somewhere between 1 and 5 ms. Faster is better. This does not otherwise affect the workload on your GPU.
- HDR - The new buzzword, HDR is high dynamic range, also known as being able to show really dark bits and really bright bits at the same time. Blacker blacks and whiter whites. This does not affect the work done by your GPU, and a monitor that supports HDR content will always be 'better' than one that doesn't. Note that to fully support HDR, the monitor must be able to achieve 1,000 nits of brightness. There are few that currently can, and they are expensive. This is something to keep an eye on, but not relevant to most for now.
- Colour Space - I'm choosing to neglect this area for now, although it is of particular importance if you use your monitor for content creation (photo and video editing, for example). Almost all current monitors support 99% of the sRGB colour space, which is sufficient for regular PC use and gaming. A well calibrated sRGB monitor is of more use to most than a wide gamut display, which tend to be targeted more at professionals doing very colour sensitive work. If you'd like to know more about this topic feel free to ask me here or via PM.
- Panel Type - TN, IPS, VA. I'll try to simplify the key differences below -
TN - quickest response times, awful viewing angles (tilt your head, colours change), low contrast and saturation - colours look washed out. These are the cheapest panels to manufacture. Despite the comparatively poor colour performance, the other panel types can't match the responsiveness of TN panels (no matter what numbers the manufacturers quote), and TN panels may be a wise choice for 240Hz monitors. Otherwise, I can't recommend a TN panel unless you're buying a sub £200 monitor.
IPS & VA - slower response times, good viewing angles, high contrast and saturation. I'm lumping these 2 together as although there are differences, they are often small. These technologies trade blow for blow, and differences and more down to what particular VA or IPS panel you choose. VA are becoming more popular with manufacturers, as they are able to hit the contrast levels required for HDR. I wouldn't be put off by either a VA or an IPS panel, just read the reviews first to see how that
particular panel fares.
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GPU = Graphics Card (Graphics Processing Unit).
Hz = relating to refresh rate, this is the number of times the monitor refreshes itself every second.
FPS =frames per second, the number of times your GPU sends a frame to the monitor each second. Ideally you want the refresh rate (Hz) and the FPS to be identical, at all times. I highlighted some of the above in bold as it is worth thinking about your GPU for a second. If you upgrade your monitor to one with a higher resolution or a higher refresh rate, you are increasing the work of your GPU.
Sure, you can force your GPU to run games at 1080p on your new 4K monitor...but then why buy the 4K monitor? Likewise, games will happily run at 60 frames per second on a 144Hz screen - but why not just stick to the 60Hz screen and save some cash?
A monitor upgrade often means a GPU upgrade too. Think carefully before you buy that 4K 144Hz monitor, your GTX 760 will never be able to take advantage of the tech the monitor has to offer, and a 1080Ti isn't cheap.
So what do you do then? Well, I would look at the technologies above, and decide on what is relevant to you. Do you prefer fast paced competitive gaming? Prioritise low input lag and a high refresh rate. Keep the resolution at 1080p or make sure you have the graphics horsepower to handle all of those pixels at 144 FPS. If you're more of a casual gamer, getting 144Hz rather than 100 isn't really a necessity. You'd probably get more from a monitor that supports HDR, or a higher resolution.
There is more to this discussion that I will add in time (panel types, sizes, curves and so on), but maybe this will help someone in the meantime!
Cheers all.
nice post chaos,
Just to give you guys an idea as i know some have older processors but newer Gpus:
my 4970 I7 and a 1070 gtx mini will happily play on high/epic all recent games at 1440p (2560x1440) at 144hz. Although its best to go with 60 hz as the average frame rate on ARK, Conan and Arma is about 65fps, although cs go i can go to 144fps with vsync, so switch to 144hz.
tried a 4k with the set up above, sits in the 30fps, so the 1440p option works best for it
Yep, a 1070/1080/Ti should handle most things at 1440p and at least 100Hz fairly well. Going much above that, or playing games with more demanding settings, may be difficult.
If you want guaranteed 120+ FPS, 1080p may be the sweet spot for now. Many of the pros play with this sort of set up, for example.
4K 144Hz is ahead of the game right now, and you're looking at the 1100 series if you really want to get the most out of these specs.
So what 144Hz is worth a punt at this point? I keep seeing the horribly expensive PG279Q pop up as good but then ASUS ROG gets slated for inconsistent QC.
Well, it all depends on what else you want from your screen. The bleeding edge is always going to be expensive - these 4K HDR 144Hz beasts from Asus/Acer are over £2,000!
These are extreme overkill, though, and as we see more and more HDR screens the price should hopefully start to drop. The problem at the moment is that nVidia are (allegedly) charging manufacturers $500 for the GSync HDR module alone. This of course drives the cost up for us consumers.
So what about a 144Hz screen right now. The way I see it you have a few options -
1) Buy cheap as a tester - there are loads of 1920x1080 144Hz TN panels out there for £100-200. Many of these are 24" - I wouldn't go much bigger with a 1080p screen, personally. These are TN panels, which means poor viewing angles and 'worse*' colour than their more expensive IPS counterparts, but response times are generally quicker on a TN. There are IPS versions of these, but I don't think the specs are worth spending more on, so can't recommend anything but the budget conscious TNs when buying these screens.
As an example, HERE (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-GN246HLB-24-inch-Monitor-panel/dp/B00IG0Z0HY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530264904&sr=8-1&keywords=144hz+TN+1080p)is one I found on Amazon.
*IPS panels tend to have a wider gamut due to the different backlight technology used. Not all IPS screens are created equal though, and a 99% sRGB ONLY 8-bit IPS will be more or less equivalent in terms of colour accuracy to a 99% sRGB 8-bit TN. It's only when we start to get into extended gamuts like AdobeRGB that IPS panels outstrip the TNs. If you're not using the monitor for particularly colour sensitive work, a TN will likely suit you just fine, and I wouldn't worry too much about this stuff.
2) Buy mid range - there are some nice 27" 2560x1440 (a perfect combination of size and resolution, in my opinion) screens out there. These specs tend to come at a £400-500 price minimum, at which point I would probably start to recommend IPS over TN if only for the viewing angles. HERE (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AOC-Response-Speakers-Adaptive-AG271QX/dp/B01G4AUGR6/ref=sr_1_6?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1530265811&sr=1-6&keywords=1440p+144hz)is a TN panel with these specs, and HERE (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GTODWPU/ref=psdc_428652031_t3_B01G4AUGR6)is an IPS one. THe price difference makes IPS worth it, in my opinion. Both will still be great monitors, but you may notice colour shift on the TN at regular viewing distances.
3) Buy a big screen behemoth - most of the curved 32-34" screens feature 1440p screens (3400x1440 due to the wider aspect ratio) and 100 or 120Hz refresh rates (the latter usually an overclock of a 100Hz panel). They tend to be IPS (TN tech really doesn't play well with bigger screens), and often come with the added cost of GSynch - more on that below. The difference between 120 and 144hz is not that noticeable, so I wouldn't be too put off by that. 100 to 144 is a bigger leap of course, but I can't say what the real world difference is - you'd have to find out for yourself.
These panels do tend to be expensive, like THIS (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-Predator-34-Inch-ZeroFrame-Adjustable/dp/B078JB4291/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1530266251&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=1440p+120hz+curved)one, but you can get some without GSync for a bit less. I think if you wanted a wide, curved display, one of these could do you well for a few years. Keep in mind that most do say these wide displays are not good for competitive FPS gaming, and that the more standard 'non-curved' 24-27" screens are better suited for this sort of use. This is a matter of personal preference of course, but it is a fairly common observation - you won't see any pros playing on a big curved monitor.
Gsync. Do you need it? This is really personal - everyone interprets tear differently. To some it is very noticeable and GSync is an absolute must. Others, like me, aren't as put off by the odd bit of tearing, and may hardly notice GSync at all. If in doubt, I would say go for it. It adds a few ms of screen lag, but this is generally accepted against the benefit of reduced tearing. Personally I play on a 144Hz screen WITHOUT GSync, lock my frame rates to 144Hz in-game, and have not yet been bothered by any significant tearing. Your experience may differ! If you're buying a high refresh rate as a test (like I did), go cheap and skip GSync. If you're buying it as a permanent monitor, spend a bit more and get the tech - with option 2 above, the cost difference isn't great.
Finally, there is also the option of waiting. This is a case of waiting either for the price to drop on the top end, or for something more 'middle of the road' to come along. There are 2 monitors I am waiting for -
1) a 27" 1440p 144Hz+ True HDR panel. As far as I know, there are none listed yet.
2) a 34" Curved 144Hz+ True HDR panel. These are coming later this year (https://www.asus.com/uk/Monitors/ROG-SWIFT-PG35VQ/).
I picked up a cheap TN 1080p 144Hz monitor as a tester, originally planning to use it alongside my old 60Hz 1440p IPS panel. Within a day I had listed the old panel on eBay, as I couldn't go back to 60Hz, even for desktop use. It really is worth the upgrade. I plan to keep this monitor going until one of the above is available - I just hope they are priced considerably lower than the 4K versions! I'm not looking at 4K, as I don't fancy buying the 8 GPUs needed to push 8.3 million pixels 144 times a second :roflmao:.
Hope that is of some help, Albert. If you find a particular model, have a read of the reviews before buying. The ones I have linked here are not personal recommendations - I have never tried the screens, I am just going off of the listed specs! :)
Thanks mate, I can understand quite a bit more about the thought process now.
I was searching around and I quite often look at the Amazon warehouse for such products. Monitor returns are one of the biggest gamers gripe on the Internet. People get hot up about dead pixels or light bleed. So your 4-500 £ mid-range is actually about the price of a top range "As new" boxed with all items warehouse item.
I'm going to check these (page 3 is As New non-damaged items, page 1-2 are varying degrees of damage): https://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listing/B017EVR2VM/ref=olp_page_3?ie=UTF8&f_used=true&f_usedAcceptable=true&f_usedGood=true&f_usedLikeNew=true&f_usedVeryGood=true&startIndex=20
That Asus sits nicely in that middle tier (option 2) spec wise, but I do think that particular model was plagued with bad light bleed. I believe Milli has one and could maybe share some pictures, I'll give him a nudge.
If that is a deal breaker or not is up to you. It's still a great monitor, it all depends how much it would bother you during gaming.
I'll note that the bleed is due to the panel more than the manufacturer (Asus). The Acer version with the same panel had exactly the same problem, but ended up getting nowhere near as much attention for it. Sadly this means if you want to avoid the issue you have to avoid that 165Hz panel and go for one of the native 144Hz ones at similar spec.
I generally don't worry about bleed too much, most of that can be fixed with tuning. The old Spider Pro has paid for itself over and over. I've never even tried a monitor over 60Hz so with all the positive feedback from the FPS playing community and the general advancement in the tech, I think I'll find a suitable used one and give it a go. That model still is regarded as the best out there. Wish me luck!
If the bleed doesn't bother you then it will be a fantastic screen. It wouldn't stop me buying one either, for what it's worth!
GL!
One of the best upgrades I have made to my gaming rig ( and I do a lot!) was the purchase of my wide screen monitor, puts gaming into a different league.
Quote from: lionheart;432562One of the best upgrades I have made to my gaming rig ( and I do a lot!) was the purchase of my wide screen monitor, puts gaming into a different league.
I think most would agree. As I said above, many people seem to say they have a negative impact on individual performance in competitive FPS, but in reality I suspect the difference is small. For any other gaming, or for us who are never going to be hitting headshots left right and centre either way, they are likely a great and very immersive choice.
Chaos gave me a nudge but was planning to reply at some point anyways :)
Just recently purchased the PG279Q - Chaos found a good deal from seller on ebay so pulled trigger and bought it
It's a great monitor imo - yes it suffers from backlight bleed - but I never notice it.
It is a 144hz panel but overclocks to 166hz in the OSD with just a simple couple button presses and reboot of screen.
Pictured I have it sitting next to my X34A Predator, and really happy with it, would def recommend to anyone
Attached some pics (If for no other reason to show off my new room/setup)
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Full Desk
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PG279Q
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Blank Screensaver (night time will show bleed better)
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Shameless artwork photo
Great set up Milli!
Quote from: lionheart;432562One of the best upgrades I have made to my gaming rig ( and I do a lot!) was the purchase of my wide screen monitor, puts gaming into a different league.
Just I need (call that desire and enjoy having) 2 screens on my desk as I play games a lot that aren't all action and a bit of web research and browsing on wikis is part of the game. Plus my desk space is limited. I'd love to try the bigger monitors but I think not quite yet.
Quote from: SithAfrikaan;432570Great set up Milli!
I suspect the took his largest waste paper basket and forearm and swept all the other crap off the desk before taking the photo :rolleyes: ok ok I won't judge others by my own horrible messy standards, I respect your OCD for neat and tidy Milli!
New desk....new room....gimme a week [emoji23]
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
I picked up an open box Asus ROG PG279Q on Amazon warehouse. Don't want to jinx it but so far. No dead pixels, all physicals perfeft and it runs really well. I definitely got a very blue green panel. I cut the brightness to 20 and hit rgb to 95 75 75 and ran a spider colour calibration. Its bluer than my Acer for sure but the edge glow is not even noticeable. I think brightness 100 is way OP. I have to agree the smoothness vs 60Hz is astounding. And £200 cheaper from warehouse. Full warranty.
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
Cheers Albert, I've decided to give the warehouse thing a crack, fingers crossed.
Also, nice setup Milli
There are lots of varying quality/ state of damage levels. I chose like new comes in original packing prime delivery. So I expect one just had a damaged box or missing cable as the casing is immaculate.
Can't vouch for any state lower. Came from a warehouse in Poland.
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jamoe;432761Cheers Albert, I've decided to give the warehouse thing a crack, fingers crossed.
Also, nice setup Milli
Heh thanks, Still to RGB it up like a unicorns hen do, but it's getting there [emoji23]
Glad you got one Albert and it's good quality, as I said - it does suffer from.some bleed but of nothing that would make me not buy it.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
i also have a pg279q think mine was just under £600 when i bought it, any of you running it at the 165hz? or normal 144?
i wonder how big a screen we could make with all our pg279qs.lol
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4548[/ATTACH] pg279q
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my desk
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my pg279q and my older 24" lg monitor.
get that mug a coaster!
I don't have a new game that gets 165Hz... So just kept it at 144. Would like to know other folks settings. Seems the setup is based on the racing profile then adjust brightness and RGB to suit. I saw a few 100 saturation setups that look interesting but way OTT colour wise.
My base is covered in junk already, no lights on.
Cost me â,¬600 down from â,¬870 via warehouse.
Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
Added some bits on panel type and more detail on freesync/gsync vs gsync.
If anyone is still using a 60Hz panel... why :D !?
I'm still on 60Hz, I have no excuse to offer :vsorry:
Now that I've switched to 144hz (and no longer have a faulty panel) I'm exceptionally glad that I did!
Well those with help us without just ask and I will pm you my paypal:) ;) :boxing::g:
Quote from: RizZy;433630I'm still on 60Hz, I have no excuse to offer :vsorry:
Someone hit me with some ideas for a new monitor, I'm looking at 27" 1440p 144hz & £400? an ideas?
theres a whole range at that price point mate.
https://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Monitors/subcat/27%22+-Monitors?513=QHD+%2F+2k&a03315=IPS&price=150+TO+397
Quote from: Sneakytiger;439529theres a whole range at that price point mate.
https://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Monitors/subcat/27%22+-Monitors?513=QHD+%2F+2k&a03315=IPS&price=150+TO+397
Only two with 144Hz and 1440p though? ...and they look like more or less the same model? Also, depending on your opinion of ebuyer (:sideways:) you can get the same Acer at scan, same price I think (https://www.scan.co.uk/products/27-acer-xv272u-qhd-gaming-monitor-ips-2560x1440-144hz-1ms-freesync-400cd-m-hdmi-dp-usb) ... seems to get reasonable reviews
There's also the monitor that I think Sith bought which you could get from currys (https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/pc-monitors/pc-monitors/msi-optix-mag271cqr-quad-hd-27-curved-led-gaming-monitor-black-10190067-pdt.html) which he seemed very happy with (https://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?42722-Monitors&p=437554&viewfull=1#post437554)! :D
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lg-27gl850-b-27-2560x1440-nano-ips-144hz-1ms-freesync-g-sync-compatible-widescreen-led-gaming-monit-mo-155-lg.html
Wait for this to release. There isn't another monitor in the price range I'd recommend over this one ATM. No brainer imo.
As Chaos said, The new IPS on it's way looks good. The 1ms response time is really good in an IPS but unsure of how/if this will work correctly.
The ASUS ones have always seemed good specs to me:
TN (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus-mg278q-rog-dominator-27-2560x1440-tn-freesync-g-sync-144hz-gaming-widescreen-led-monitor-mo-087-as.html)
IPS (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus-mg279q-rog-27-2560x1440-ips-freesync-144hz-gaming-widescreen-led-slim-bezel-monitor-mo-083-as.html)
Nothing wrong with that Asus IPS at that price either. Usually the Asus ones are overpriced, anything below 500 is decent for that spec list imo.
Just for the purpose of updating, I've gone for the LG, when I get it who knows, I may have got a little carried away & ordered a 3700x & a 5700xt & some other things while I was at it too. oops.
Quote from: RizZy;439647Just for the purpose of updating, I've gone for the LG, when I get it who knows, I may have got a little carried away & ordered a 3700x & a 5700xt & some other things while I was at it too. oops.
NICE! Happy new upgrade mate
Quote from: RizZy;439647Just for the purpose of updating, I've gone for the LG, when I get it who knows, I may have got a little carried away & ordered a 3700x & a 5700xt & some other things while I was at it too. oops.
What a pleasant accident Rizzy! Should be one very nice upgrade! :thumbsup:
I've got everything apart from the cpu & monitor, seems I somehow managed to order a cpu from Japan via Holland, cpu should be here some point this week. I'll post some pics & stuff somewhere when I'm done with it all.
The monitor finally turned up, & it's flippin b,e,a,utiful.
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/gaming/pc-gaming/gaming-monitors/aoc-cq27g2u-bk-quad-hd-27-curved-va-gaming-monitor-black-red-10206681-pdt.html
Apart from being a VA panel, (my current is an IPS), and of course being currys, lol, anything else screaming "no!" about this monitor? My current is only a 60hz one, and with getting a 10400 cpu to go with my 5700xt, I need to see a nice improvement on the graphics side!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNsNOyArB9A&feature=emb_title
Seems like a good budget panel.
The only issue I personally have with VA is smearing in the darker colours. Otherwise, they make nice panels. I'd probably personally go for IPS (and have just moved to a budget IPS panel, from VA), but coming from 60Hz, any panel at 144 is going to be such a vast improvement, I'd say go for it if this panel matches your budget nicely.
Quote from: Chaosphere;444527https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNsNOyArB9A&feature=emb_title
Seems like a good budget panel.
The only issue I personally have with VA is smearing in the darker colours. Otherwise, they make nice panels. I'd probably personally go for IPS (and have just moved to a budget IPS panel, from VA), but coming from 60Hz, any panel at 144 is going to be such a vast improvement, I'd say go for it if this panel matches your budget nicely.
my current one is this, https://www.ebuyer.com/881776-eg-32-qhd-75hz-ips-monitor-eg322k1 which they havent made for a good 12months or so, I didnt think there would be much difference between the VA and IPS as on TVs its mostly down to viewing angle and obviously I am sat right in front of it :-) , I'll keep looking for a IPS panel then - anything up to £350-400 really