It's 4 years (almost) since my last motherboard, CPU and RAM upgrade. And I feel compelled to put that right.
I know this stuff is probably OTT but I was looking for a great motherboard with:
- a load of USB ports (3.1, A and C type and 3) to allow all space flight sim peripherals to live together without an external hub.
I wanted an i7 8700 but since I need to have only an mircoATX case all the Z370 motherboards had throttling limitations especially when used with 9th gen CPUs.
- Z390 seems the way forward
Looking at: Asus ROG Max Geme XI - https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-XI-GENE/ - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus-rog-maximus-xi-gene-intel-z390-socket-1151-ddr4-micro-atx-motherboard-mb-6cr-as.html
And I have trusted my old Maximus Gene XI for 4 years and it has worked near flawlessly.
I like the headroom of 32GB of RAM (which I already have in DDR3 format).
Looking at: Corsair Dominator Platinum 3466 - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/corsair-dominator-platinum-32gb-2x16gb-ddr4-pc4-27700-3466mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-cmd32gx4m2-my-4ag-cs.html
Then my head was buzzing with ideas and stupid ones at that, I checked out the Pre-binned CPUs with silicon lottery avoidance but in reality what the hell difference will 4.9GHz make vs 5.1GHz for £150 more so: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/intel-core-i7-9700k-3.6ghz-coffee-lake-socket-lga1151-processor-oem-cp-65m-in.html
I tend to be happy splashing out for higher end gear so I don't need to run it at full pelt (until games catch up with it) all it's life. Thinking to invest in this in the New Year but seriously tempted in just getting on with it.
Any concerns seen by anyone other than a madman going OTT with his spec?
I'd love to really go into this topic with you, as it is something I have researched in ridiculous depth over the last few months, but I just don't have the time right now. I may be able to get into more detail later, or we could arrange a discord chat if you'd like a real discussion.
By the way, this is worth watching in the meantime -
https://youtu.be/1vi1dIuSsa4
The short version is an 8700K or 9700K is the sweet spot for most of us gamers, with very little between them, and assuming budget allows. The 9900K is overpriced with no real niche to fill.
Ok I will try to provide some advice in a concise manner... this may be difficult for me :P
1) Should I buy the Gene z390 Motherboard?
In a word, no. Although there is nothing wrong with the Gene, it is VERY overpriced for what it is and continues Asus' recent trend of lying through their teeth about what their boards provide. I won't go into this too much, unless asked ( :flirty: ), but suffice to say the board really isn't much better than any of the other mATX z370/390 motherboards. It is not worth the premium. Get one of the other z390 / 370 motherboards instead.
2) Do I need to worry about throttling with mATX z370/390 motherboards?
No, the issue you alluded to was overblown and over-reported. 99% of users will not see throttling secondary to the motherboard with any of the available boards, however they use their PC. Do not make this a consideration when building your PC, it will lead you down unnecessary and potentially expensive roads (cough Gene cough).
3) Should I buy a pre-binned CPU?
If buying a 9000 series CPU, no, absolutely not.
If buying an 8000 series CPU, no, probably not.
It MAY be worth buying an 8000 series CPU that has been de-lidded, IF you are not willing to do this yourself / bring it to a LAN so I can do it for you (free of charge, alcohol consumption dependant - sorry Whitey... next time :norty:). The 8000 series CPUs run hot and can benefit from a delid to lower temps / allow higher overclocks. THAT SAID, you do not NEED to do this - your CPU will run at perfectly reasonable temperatures at normal or slightly overclocked settings. If you just want the CPU to run stock and leave all else alone, forget this entirely and just buy a normal CPU.
4) What CPU should I buy?
Short answer, my recommendation for gamers is the 9700K or 8700K. If the 8700K is cheaper, get it. Don't bother with the 9900K, it is a ridiculously daft piece of silicon. If you happen to create content (heavy use of photo / video editing or other intensive tasks) Ryzen may be a better buy. Let me know if this applies to you and I can go deeper down that rabbit hole.
5) What RAM should I buy?
Any RAM that is 3200Mhz or higher. Slower ram is only marginally cheaper, it just isn't worth bothering with. As for capacity, I still run 16GB. You do not need more for gaming, but if you're keen to 'future proof' your machine by getting 32GB, it can't hurt. Well, it'll hurt your wallet, but everything else will be fine.
6) A note on mATX.
Seriously consider if you need mATX. Some of the ATX cases are now so similar in physical size to mATX cases, you may be better suited with an ATX build. There are two main reasons for this - heat and power delivery. The 14nm process is hot. Any of these CPUs benefit from better cooling, and you can usually cool bigger cases, better. If your case has room for it, a 360mm AIO cooler is a better buy than a 240mm, IMO. Power delivery I don't want to go into too much, as it is a complicated beast, but suffice to say if you ARE looking to push the boat out, NONE of the mATX motherboards have actually GOOD power delivery implementations (the Gene included), you simply have to go ATX. If you'd like to know more about this let me know.
Hope that helps. If you would like me to spec out a build for you or give further advice on specific parts, just ask.
Thanks Ben, nothing there I would disagree with.
Bit more context though. I attach my PC with a cradle to the underside of a desk that has standing functionality. As such a full size ATX would be too large when sitting and too heavy to move the desk up to standing level. Also cables stay tidy with the cradle setup.
I already own a perfectly nice Corsair Pandora case, a hydrocooled 1080Ti and H100i Corsair CPU cooler. So I will stick with the mATX as I need no more on board expansion.
I'll check out other Z390 boards, Z370 I discount because of the throttling/ bandwidth issues and the only really good ones have more serious flaws like needing an aftermarket cooler on the power regulator.
97 vs 8700 is a choice of cores vs threads. I feel whilst not a major step forward the newer 9700 will run a little cooler and be more efficient, same price anyway. RAM is expensive, no way around it. 32GB I will always go for because I like to do multiple things simultaneously.
So you made me think about the motherboard for sure. Gigabyte was my second choice, so back to Tom's Hardware I go!
Found this bad boy and it seems to tick all the boxes. MATX in the Z390 space isn't exactly full to the brim but this does get very good reviews:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-Z390M-GAMING-EDGE-AC/Specification
Added 3 x Be Quiet fans to replace those on my hydrocoolers which are pretty noisy, and chose the MSI mobo, wifi and bluetooth 5.0 are handy additions plus the USB ports if the front facia is added is a total of over 10, ideal for my needs.
Otherwise, same CPU and RAM, Order placed, under 1K £ so not complaining.
Thanks for the heads up about the motherboard, saved £200 that did, and case opinion, quite clearly correct if I had the space.
Quote from: albert;435587Thanks Ben, nothing there I would disagree with.
Bit more context though. I attach my PC with a cradle to the underside of a desk that has standing functionality. As such a full size ATX would be too large when sitting and too heavy to move the desk up to standing level. Also cables stay tidy with the cradle setup.
I already own a perfectly nice Corsair Pandora case, a hydrocooled 1080Ti and H100i Corsair CPU cooler. So I will stick with the mATX as I need no more on board expansion.
Fair enough. Guess you are stuck with mATX then :) .
Quote from: albert;435587I'll check out other Z390 boards, Z370 I discount because of the throttling/ bandwidth issues and the only really good ones have more serious flaws like needing an aftermarket cooler on the power regulator.
As I said, this was overblown. Many early problems related to BIOS woes, not circuitry. In terms of power delivery, the MSI board you have posted is no different and runs with the exact same VRM as the boards you are saying had serious flaws. Practically all of the mATX boards use the same VRM design* for both z370 and 390. Only the ATX boards (and then, only some of them) have actual solid VRMs for some reason. As above though, this won't be a problem. Only when you push serious voltage through these chips and force them to crunch through heavy multi-threaded tasks do these crippled mATX VRMs start to really heat up and thus throttle. You're not going to do this, so don't worry. Just enjoy your new PC.
*The Gene is marginally 'better' here, but remains an abomination, due to its inflated price and abuse of what was once a great line of motherboards for enthusiasts.
Quote from: albert;43558797 vs 8700 is a choice of cores vs threads. I feel whilst not a major step forward the newer 9700 will run a little cooler and be more efficient, same price anyway. RAM is expensive, no way around it. 32GB I will always go for because I like to do multiple things simultaneously.
So you made me think about the motherboard for sure. Gigabyte was my second choice, so back to Tom's Hardware I go!
The 9700K only runs cooler than a stock 8700K. As soon as you delid it, the 8700K either catches up or runs cooler, as it has 2 fewer cores pumping out heat. Same thing for efficiency / power consumption. The 8700K has 2 fewer cores, and will theoretically pull less power. This of course depends on operating speeds / voltages, and you're more likely to achieve a higher overclock with fewer cores (essentially equalising power draw between the two). They're built from the exact same process, it is literally a case of adding 2 more identical cores and turning off hyperthreading. You lose per core efficiency (and thus performance) but push through it with raw number of cores. More cores, more power, more heat.
Anyway! Glad to have saved you some cash on the motherboard. Keep an eye on temperatures using BeQuiets on the radiators, as they are not fans designed for static pressure (which you need to move air through dense radiator fins). Should be fine tbh, but just keep an eye on it in monitoring software during your first heavy gaming session.
Regards to the Be Quiets, yes I noticed there was a difference but wasn't quite sure what it means for radiator use. I got the 2200RPM version as the radiator fans I have already are at that level not the normal versions.
So to quote: "be quiet! Silent Wings 3 120mm high-speed stands for state-of-the-art technology and virtually inaudible operation. The extremely high air pressure produced makes it a perfect choice for powerful water- and air-cooled systems."
So they intend them for radiators I believe.
I get your point about more cores make more heat take more power....if you are actually using them. I like the idea of having 2 extra cores for future proofing, even though the threads are less overall than the 8700K. The 9700K also has heat dissipation improvements over the 8700K. Take the example of internet lines. If you have 2 you share the load over both and do not top out either. I am thinking the same with physical cores. The pure core use delivers 100% of the core speed vs a default split when 2 threads run inside a core meaning you never actually get 100% of the core speed if you are hyperthreading, as 5-20% minimum is taken by each thread and if the scheduling is not good then two threads clash for resources on the same core. In the end, one other thing that is generally accepted, hyperthreading does very little to benefit gaming, it hinders more than it helps.
Only time will tell. I intend doing an easy overclock to get the RAM up to speed and see where that leave the CPU. I'll use Arctic Silver, as I have plenty left. If I find the head unacceptable I can always get Liquid Metal and try it.
Liking the discussion though, thanks ;-)
Quote from: albert;435592Regards to the Be Quiets, yes I noticed there was a difference but wasn't quite sure what it means for radiator use. I got the 2200RPM version as the radiator fans I have already are at that level not the normal versions.
So to quote: "be quiet! Silent Wings 3 120mm high-speed stands for state-of-the-art technology and virtually inaudible operation. The extremely high air pressure produced makes it a perfect choice for powerful water- and air-cooled systems."
So they intend them for radiators I believe.
Don't believe the blurb manufacturers describe their products with, as always it is often misleading. Radiator fins are dense, and a fan needs to be able to push air against this resistance to remove heat effectively. The BeQuiet 120mm SW3 fans are designed to be quiet, not to perform well against resistance, and are rated at an air pressure of 1.79 mmH20 @ 2200 RPM (taken from their tech specs of BeQuiet's website). Compare that to Corsair's ML 120mm fans (designed for and sold with their radiators) that are rated for 4.2 mmH20 @ 2400 RPM. On paper this is a significant difference, and you'd be advised not to use fans with such a low static pressure on radiators. In practice, you may be able to get away with it, there are multiple variables in the equation.
Quote from: albert;435592I get your point about more cores make more heat take more power....if you are actually using them. I like the idea of having 2 extra cores for future proofing, even though the threads are less overall than the 8700K. The 9700K also has heat dissipation improvements over the 8700K.
The 9700K at stock uses solder to connect die to IHS, as opposed to the thermal gunk used in the stock 8700K. Solder is much more thermally conductive, so yes, a stock 9700K can remove more 'heat per second' from its die than a stock 8700K. Delidding the 8700K replaces this gunk with metal (with a thermal conductivity similar to the solder) and negates this difference. We then go back to the 2 extra cores in the 9700K.
Looking at per core heat, power, and efficiency is a really difficult topic, as each programme running will use the CPU in a different way. I think your line 'if you are actually using them', though, looks at it in a bit too much of an ideal way. The CPU will always be spreading the system load over the cores, it will never 'turn off' the extra 2 if they aren't needed. This means all 8 of the cores are always chucking out heat, and burning through power in varying amounts. The end result of this is fairly simple. If you are using the same manufacturing process (14nm in the 8700 and 9700) and add more cores to a die, you produce more heat and use more power. There simply isn't another way around this. Only with die shrinks (and Intel are really struggling to get to 10nm) do you hope to increase efficiency and lower power consumption.
In reality, the two CPUs will probably be very close in most situations until you start constantly running all 8 cores of the 9700K under heavy multi-threaded loads. It will then push out more heat and use more power, although the differences may still be smaller than we would expect, it's a complicated beast.
Quote from: albert;435592Take the example of internet lines. If you have 2 you share the load over both and do not top out either. I am thinking the same with physical cores. The pure core use delivers 100% of the core speed vs a default split when 2 threads run inside a core meaning you never actually get 100% of the core speed if you are hyperthreading, as 5-20% minimum is taken by each thread and if the scheduling is not good then two threads clash for resources on the same core. In the end, one other thing that is generally accepted, hyperthreading does very little to benefit gaming, it hinders more than it helps.
Another complicated topic. You must not think of hyperthreading as inefficient, though, or that it is likely to hold anything up in the core, the opposite it true. Hyperthreading is designed to improve per core efficiency. Once a core has finished its task, hyperthreading aims to have the next task ready immediately so the core has no 'down time', it picks up the new task and gets to work right away. Without hyperthreading, the core has to go and fetch the next task itself, and the time taken to fetch is time not working. This time not working is what you lose when you ditch hyperthreading. Think of it as cores run at something like 80% of their potential without hyperthreading, and maybe 95% of their potential with it speeding things up in the core.
In it's early days, there may have been teething problems with the technology that held it back in applications that were not coded to take advantage of the extra threads, but with improvements in Intel's implementation of the tech and much wider acceptance of multi-threaded CPUs (and thus programme development geared to take advantage of multiple cores / threads), hyperthreading no longer
hurts anything. The benefit is incredibly variable though, and that extra 15% is never guaranteed. You're much more likely to see the advantage of HT in non-gaming loads, as these are generally written with more working threads in mind. Here, HT is good at 'making up' the difference in core counts between the 8700 and 9700. Most games are still written with 2-4 cores in mind (as most gamers do not yet own 8+ core PCs, and consoles (although technically now 8 core) are an entirely different beast (particularly when it comes to how they process graphics) that continue to hold us back.
For gaming then, most of the time it doesn't matter if you have hyperthreading or not, and most games don't care if you have 4, 6, or 8 cores. The generational improvements have come more from process shrinks (down to 14nm) that have improved per core performance. For example, a 4770K core running at 4.0Ghz will perform worse than a 9700K core running at the same speed. If you crippled the 9700K, by reducing it's clocks (to say, 3.0Ghz as a random guess) until it had the same per core performance as the 4770K, BUT left all of its 8 cores active, I'd wager most games would run almost identically on each system, as they don't yet take advantage of more than 4 cores, at least not well.
Does this mean that the 9700K is better future proofed than the 8700K? Well, potentially. We could come to a time where games really love 8 physical cores, and the hyperthreading just can't make up enough of a difference. I'm not sure this will come in the lifetime of these CPUs, though, as I expect the HT will make up most of the difference in the rare titles that benefit from more than 4 cores / threads, and by the time we are seeing games that can really use more, the per core performance of our CPUs will then pale in comparison to the 15700K or whatever they are calling it! Certainly this latter bit is speculation. The reality for now is that there is absolutely no difference when gaming between the two CPUs. Zilch. Personally I don't expect that to change, but it will take us 3-5 years to answer that one!
Quote from: albert;435592Only time will tell. I intend doing an easy overclock to get the RAM up to speed and see where that leave the CPU. I'll use Arctic Silver, as I have plenty left. If I find the head unacceptable I can always get Liquid Metal and try it.
Liking the discussion though, thanks ;-)
This bit is really important, so I really hope you make it through the wall of text to here :roflmao: !
Do NOT put liquid metal anywhere near your new PC. Do. Not. Do. It.
Liquid metal belongs between the die and the IHS after a delid. It should NOT be put on TOP of the IHS like a traditional thermal paste. It is a very different thing. The chances of some of the metal running OFF of the IHS may be high, and if it gets onto the motherboard around the socket the chances of it outright killing your system before you can do anything about it may also be quite high!
As the 9700K already has a solder interface between die and IHS, you do not need to delid the CPU and replace this with metal... you'd just be replacing one chunk of metal for another. The gains are small (we're talking 5 degrees on average with this one) and the risks much higher (solder physically attaches the die to the IHS - you really don't want to rip the die off of the PCB trying to delid the thing, that is then a £500 ineffectual paperweight).
I'd also advise against overclocking your RAM, unless you really know what you're doing with it. You won't see a single FPS increase going from 3466 Mhz RAM to 4Ghz and beyond. Not 1. Any RAM above 3000 Mhz will perform identically on these platforms. You see benefits only in synthetic tests and some specific content creation applications with faster / tighter RAM. RAM can be notoriously difficult to overclock, as it can be very difficult to track down instability and problems with unstable RAM can be very weird and wonderful. Unstable RAM is almost guaranteed to give you a headache down the road, and it could even be in a few months time with a suddenly corrupt OS, seemingly out of the blue. With DDR4 and Coffee Lake, it just isn't worth it. As if you needed another reason, the IMCs are now integrated in the CPU die, and faster RAM requires more cache voltage, more IMC voltage, which all makes the CPU hotter too. There are too many variables now to make DDR4 tweaking worth it for all but the enthusiasts willing to spend hours and hours tweaking the stuff.
Ok well, hope you enjoyed this wall of text. You can probably tell I love talking about this stuff, and will gladly discuss it all day long. Hopefully some of it is helpful! The most important bit here is to note that I am discussing this as it is interesting, and not for any other reason. With these new parts you have just purchased, you have got yourself a fantastic PC that will perform admirably for (I'd say) at least the next 3-5 years. Most important thing is to relax and enjoy it!
Cheers.
:rockon:
Swathes of information! Good discussion!
...once you two are done I'll hijack with a query about mini-itx rammed into a tiny-as-possible case, and whether a laptop'd make more sense :D:flirty:
One of theses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyzwEomxVPA interesting.
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;435607:rockon:
Swathes of information! Good discussion!
...once you two are done I'll hijack with a query about mini-itx rammed into a tiny-as-possible case, and whether a laptop'd make more sense :D:flirty:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-phantom-gaming-itx-ac-intel-z390-s-1151-ddr4-sata-iii-2x-m2-intel-gbe-usb-31-gen2-mini-itx?gclid=CjwKCAiAiuTfBRAaEiwA4itUqNIKqACAlB0uLajlR5Zypks_6zZ_MSRVFCF87ai5qVKSlCqvq-715RoCR_YQAvD_BwE
If you must go mITX, this is probably the best board you can get ATM. It has pretty much the same VRM spec wise as the Gene (mATX), yet is £100+ cheaper and doesn't hurt my feelings. :roflmao:
As above, avoid the 9900K and you should be fine. Ideally you'll want a case that still supports a 240mm radiator, and to either delid an 8700K or run a stock 9700K. You don't have much space to cool stuff in mITX so putting more heat into it isn't such a great idea. Even with the VRM on that board, things will still get toasty if you do!
Quote from: albert;435608One of theses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyzwEomxVPA interesting.
He's a bit ham-fisted
aceymetrix is about to go for this deal on overclockers
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/promo-bundle-intel-core-i9-9900k-aorus-z390-master-aorus-16gb-rgb-ram-free-512gb-ssd-bu-02t-gi.html
i think its a fair deal .
I saw that actually and my problem is none of the nice bundles are mATX. I assume he will get a decent graphics card with all that nice core gear? I recall GFX being his bottleneck no?
Quote from: Sneakytiger;435615aceymetrix is about to go for this deal on overclockers
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/promo-bundle-intel-core-i9-9900k-aorus-z390-master-aorus-16gb-rgb-ram-free-512gb-ssd-bu-02t-gi.html
i think its a fair deal .
It has one of the best cost / performance VRMs out there, and is perfectly capable of driving a 9900K, even overclocking to hell and back, without risking setting the house on fire :D . Can't really go wrong with it, and if I was recommending an ATX board it would probably be that one for the fantastic performance balanced against its sensible price.
As I've said here, I think the 9900K is overpriced though. Of course it's a good CPU, but the price premium over the 9700K isn't justified by any significant performance gains. It will perform identically in games, every single time. I don't expect this to change any time soon, and you can read the nonsense I wrote about hyperthreading above if you'd like an explanation of my opinion there :roflmao: .
That said, if you don't care about spending a little too much on the CPU, then there isn't an issue.
Personally I'd prefer to get the 9700 or 8700 and with the money saved pair it with 32GB of ram. Although not necessary today, that's something that
may offer some future proofing more than the 9900K, as it's far more likely we will start to take advantage of larger volumes of RAM than see numerous well optimised 8+ thread games over the next few years. Just my personal opinion though. I'd still recommend 16GB for those not looking to spend too much as it remains a very sensible option for now and at least the next couple of years.
TL;DR Great motherboard and good but overpriced CPU. RAM is fine. It'll make a great PC for him.
I won't start talking about graphics cards as I have almost as strong opinions there as I do on the manufacturers lying about their VRMs, and I've no time to open that can of worms right now :roflmao: . As Albert said though, he really should put something strong with it if he wants to game on it. I can't remember exactly what he has, but putting a 9900K with something like a 960 is madness! Madness!!! :norty:
Quote from: Chaosphere;435598Don't believe the blurb manufacturers describe their products with, as always it is often misleading. Radiator fins are dense, and a fan needs to be able to push air against this resistance to remove heat effectively. The BeQuiet 120mm SW3 fans are designed to be quiet, not to perform well against resistance, and are rated at an air pressure of 1.79 mmH20 @ 2200 RPM (taken from their tech specs of BeQuiet's website). Compare that to Corsair's ML 120mm fans (designed for and sold with their radiators) that are rated for 4.2 mmH20 @ 2400 RPM. On paper this is a significant difference, and you'd be advised not to use fans with such a low static pressure on radiators. In practice, you may be able to get away with it, there are multiple variables in the equation.
Just to set the record straight, the fans on my H100 today are 1.6-7.7mm H2O for 2 fans or 0.8-3.85mm H2O for 1 fan according to the original documentation. The higher rpm version of the bequiet that I ordered are 3.37mm H2O per fan or 6.74mm H2O for the pair. The difference is close enough I think. Silencio FP120s would have actually improved the air pressure flow and even ended up slightly quieter than the BeQuiets but the BQs have some very nice rubber dampening. Not a lot in it.
PS Mobo turned up already and CPU/ RAM tomorrow. Mobo has a free copy of Assassin's Creed Odyssey as a promo, which is nice. Mobo is super solid, the weight and feel are awesome. Lot's of added parts, including a couple of rather large wifi antenna. I've been trying to find a front I/O panel that incorporates some additional USB2, 3.1 and maybe a C port, no luck so far. Although there is an authentic Corsair panel with 4 x 2 and 4 x 3 USB ports which may be my best shot albeit moving my USB3 speed to 460MBps.
Ah, the high speed BeQuiet seem much better. These should be fine.
http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/21/be-quiet-silent-wings-3-120-mm-high-speed-fan/4/
They performed well here.
Darn bought the wrong fans, no power control.
But on the bright side, PC is built and nothing obvious is broken.
Literally it installed Windows 10 in 5 - 6 minutes. The only things I can comment on are:
1) MSI motherboard is gorgeous
2) MSI BIOS is gorgeous
3) Cooling is way more solid and well positioned than my old Asus ROG (for sale with 1866 32GB and a 4790k i7) and the old setup I felt was already awesome.
4) M$ are even more sneaky and backhanded about privacy than before.
Few beers then back to break it.
The fans can probably still be controlled, I think you mean they lack PWM control, i.e. are 3 pin and not 4 pin.
PWM fans have 4 leads and can have their specific RPM set and adjusted. 3 pin fans are unable to be controlled in this fashion but are still amenable to voltage control via a motherboard fan header or similar. You will need to set the controller to operate in DC mode, which will then change fan speed by adjusting the voltage (5-12V).
Glad the pc is up and running well. I'm here if you have any queries.
Quote from: Chaosphere;435737The fans can probably still be controlled, I think you mean they lack PWM control, i.e. are 3 pin and not 4 pin.
PWM fans have 4 leads and can have their specific RPM set and adjusted. 3 pin fans are unable to be controlled in this fashion but are still amenable to voltage control via a motherboard fan header or similar. You will need to set the controller to operate in DC mode, which will then change fan speed by adjusting the voltage (5-12V).
Glad the pc is up and running well. I'm here if you have any queries.
Trouble is mate, the fans are for the CPU pump and the graphics pump. Controllers are in the respective devices and need the right type of connector. I'll return them to Amazon and find a more suitable alternative.
Fair enough. The two corsair pumps I have had both came with adaptors to connect standard 3-4 pin fans to, but perhaps we have different models. As long as you can get what works for you, all good.
Quote from: Chaosphere;435740Fair enough. The two corsair pumps I have had both came with adaptors to connect standard 3-4 pin fans to, but perhaps we have different models. As long as you can get what works for you, all good.
Ah ok well mine is from 2013 it's the v1 H100i. I need to check the original box of parts. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough.
i have a h100i v2 with 2 hd 120 rgb fans 1 120hd rgb fan on my 1080 seahawk and 3 140hd fans on the front of my case all run thru my commander pro for rbg and fan control.
any queries ask me on discord.
I have it with nocta 120mm
Cheers Sneaks and BTob.. got the Be Quiets working on the H100i. So now need a new joining connector for the gfx card. But..... sooooo silent!
Ran Prime 95 for a few hours last night and was getting 55oC. Software seems stable but important:
During driver and utility install, Windows was BSOD many times as it detected pieces missing and was way over sensitive. Rock solid after the last part, wifi drivers were installed.
You need to run Small FFTs in prime95 for any CPU load. Your CPU won't be 55 degrees running that, unless you've literally the best 9700K in existence :roflmao: .
If it's BSODing, it's not stable. Run small FFTs and wait for the BSOD...
Not sure how high you have it, but something like 70% of 9700s can do 5.0, and 25% 5.1. Most will need fairly high voltages for this, around 1.35. As I've said before I strongly recommend sticking to 1.3-1.35, ideally closer to 1.3V. the mATX boards cannot handle more voltage long term.
Quote from: Chaosphere;435793You need to run Small FFTs in prime95 for any CPU load. Your CPU won't be 55 degrees running that, unless you've literally the best 9700K in existence :roflmao: .
If it's BSODing, it's not stable. Run small FFTs and wait for the BSOD...
Not sure how high you have it, but something like 70% of 9700s can do 5.0, and 25% 5.1. Most will need fairly high voltages for this, around 1.35. As I've said before I strongly recommend sticking to 1.3-1.35, ideally closer to 1.3V. the mATX boards cannot handle more voltage long term.
The BSODing was caused by the MSI software, it is a well documented problem and clears once a particular piece of software is properly installed. It's not hardware based error codes, it's software related to a driver for the Intel WiFi module. So that problem is completely gone.
Well I did the default prime95 burn in. I didn't change any parameters but it was sitting at 100% for a few hours in that state with the temp going from 49 up to 55 on average. I can look at small FFT's later. Thanks for the tip. I already had the 9700 up at 5GHz but as I stated before it was over powering on the auto setting, so I aim to try this again but manually tuning the CPU V. Just now it's sitting happy at 1.25v on GameBoost up to about 4.8GHz. In reality no games I've ran so far make the CPU go above 50 degrees. I had my previous mATX board at 1.35 for nearly 5 years with barely a problem. The old CPU was more often under 40 degrees under load. I understand form my research that the H100i is at it's limit with a 9700K.
I see what you mean with the Small FFTs. Looking at 77 degrees after 20 minutes on that one. BeQuiets are doing their job well though, even at max speed the noise level is massively less than the stock fans.
Quote from: albert;435799The BSODing was caused by the MSI software, it is a well documented problem and clears once a particular piece of software is properly installed. It's not hardware based error codes, it's software related to a driver for the Intel WiFi module. So that problem is completely gone.
That's hilarious, but glad then that you've solved it.
Quote from: albert;435799Well I did the default prime95 burn in. I didn't change any parameters but it was sitting at 100% for a few hours in that state with the temp going from 49 up to 55 on average. I can look at small FFT's later. Thanks for the tip. I already had the 9700 up at 5GHz but as I stated before it was over powering on the auto setting, so I aim to try this again but manually tuning the CPU V. Just now it's sitting happy at 1.25v on GameBoost up to about 4.8GHz. In reality no games I've ran so far make the CPU go above 50 degrees. I had my previous mATX board at 1.35 for nearly 5 years with barely a problem. The old CPU was more often under 40 degrees under load. I understand form my research that the H100i is at it's limit with a 9700K.
100% on monitoring doesn't mean much. There is more to a workload than just how much it saturates the cores, so to speak. One 100% load can be much less intensive than another 100% load, consuming much less power and thus producing much less heat. The standard prime burn test is a pretty poor indicator of stability unless left to run for at least 24 hours, and even then you can pass that and still fail small FFTs in the first 10 minutes.
1.25v is fine, your temperatures will stay nice and low with that, in most things. Your previous mATX board has no bearing on this one. As I have said above the 370/390 boards all have crippled VRMs. Your previous board did not. 1.3-1.35 vcore will not hurt your CPU, but it will make your VRMs run hot, possibly close to their thermal limits. Going above 1.35 will only make things worse, and I do not recommend it! That is why I've advised these voltage limits. It has nothing to do with the 9700, but the motherboard. It aims to keep your VRM temperatures at a reasonable level, hopefully keeping the board running well for years to come.