Hey Guys,
Since my machine is dying a death I'm looking at replacing the main internals and was hoping for some advice.
I'm looking to get a motherboard, CPU and RAM to go with existing ATX case, GTX1060 (Thanks Oldie), HDD and SDD's.
Machine's going to be used for games and 3D apps like 3DS Max, Zbrush, substance painter, etc
I've got a budget of around 1k and absolutely zero knowledge of what's good these days so would appreciate the help!
maybe something like this, what is your current PSU?:
PCPartPicker part list (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/V3V3QZ) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/V3V3QZ/by_merchant/)
CPU: Intel - Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/WtyV3C/intel-core-i7-9700k-36ghz-8-core-processor-bx80684i79700k) (£384.40 @ Alza)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - MasterLiquid Lite 240 66.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/9gRFf7/cooler-master-masterliquid-lite-240-667-cfm-liquid-cpu-cooler-mlw-d24m-a20pw-r1) (£49.99 @ AWD-IT)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z390 GAMING X ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/CdPKHx/gigabyte-z390-gaming-x-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z390-gaming-x) (£127.97 @ Box Limited)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/p6RFf7/corsair-memory-cmk16gx4m2b3200c16) (£121.28 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Ykbkcf/samsung-960-evo-500gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v6e500) (£99.99 @ Ebuyer)
Power Supply: be quiet! - Pure Power 11 CM 700 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/QDvbt6/be-quiet-pure-power-11-cm-700-w-80-gold-certified-semi-modular-atx-power-supply-bn299) (£84.98 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £868.61
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-16 22:37 GMT+0000
I'm going to advise against the 9700 suggested by Gunda, I'm afraid. As you mentioned 3D rendering, you are one of the rare few (on these forums) who actually needs more cores / threads, and the lack of hyperthreading on that 9700 makes it a poor choice for such workloads.
I'll write out a proper reply later when I have a bit more free time, but the advice is probably going to be either the 9900K or the Threadripper 2920X. There are pros and cons to each, which I will go through later on.
Cheers!
Ok so, as I alluded to above, the question here is how much do you want multithreaded performance?
For just gaming, you simply do not need more than 4-8 good cores to run the load. Usually I recommend Intel CPUs to pure gamers as they have the best single core performance, and thus remain the bees knees for gaming. Here, the 9700K would be a solid choice as if offers 8 well performing cores.
However, as soon as you start running programmes that can take advantages of higher core or thread counts, things get a bit more complicated.
For a gamer who occasionally indulges in batch photo or video editing for example (fairly common given how we use YouTube / Twitch now) I'd start to think about the CPUs with hyperthreading over the 9700K - that is the 8700K or the 9900K.
The 9900K would be a solid choice for such a use case as it has 8 strong cores and benefits from hyperthreading, giving you 16 threads to work with. This lets the 9900K far outperform the 9700K in workloads that can best utilise these extra threads. If this use case sounds right for you, this is probably the CPU to go for if budget allows.
If it is a bit pricy, well the reason I mentioned the 8700K is although it has 2 fewer cores than the 97/9900K, it has hyperthreading and so can run 12 threads - 4 more than the 9700K. In many multithreaded workloads it will outperform the 9700K because of this, making it a decent 'value' proposition for those who don't want to stump for the 9900K, but need to do the odd bit of number crunching.
But what if you do a LOT of multithreaded work? From what you have talked about, this may be you. Many 3D rendering apps benefit hugely from multiple cores and threads, and if you spend a lot of time using your PC for this sort of work, you should consider the 'High end desktop's (HEDT) line of CPUs. These are processors designed more with this sort of work in mind.
I'm not even going to talk Intel here, as their HEDT line is expensive. Beyond either of our budgets! Thankfully in the last few years AMD has made great ground in this area, and Threadripper now presents a real option for those looking to get high core / thread counts without breaking the bank.
So let's look at Threadripper. The 1920X is the lowest Threadripper part, and can be had for around £350 now. This gives you 12 cores and 24 threads for £350. Compare that to the £500 9900K, and you start to see why I'm talking Threadripper. If you're frequently using your pc to run multithreaded workloads (and the ones you've mentioned certainly fit this bill), these extra cores / threads are undoubtedly of huge benefit.
Where Threadripper suffers is in single core performance. Each of those 12 cores is slower than each individual core of the 9700K. As games typically don't benefit from huge core counts yet, games usually perform better with the smaller number of stronger cores seen with Intel. This doesn't mean a 1920X would be 'bad' for gaming, you can absolutely pair it with that 1060 and expect a very good experience at 1080p - 1440p, it just won't outperform something like the 9700K in games - you'd get more for your money with the Intel chip when gaming. Again, what matters here is how you use your pc.
Threadripper made some good architectural improvements from first to second gen, and a 2920X (the upgrade to the 1920X) can be had for around £580 (close to the 9900K). I'd recommend the 2920X if budget allows, but the previous generation remains a good value case if you'd prefer to save some cash. In most cases the differences between the two will likely be fairly small, making the 1920X quite a popular CPU.
Lastly, we need to talk RAM. This is fairly simple. I'm going to recommend you look to 32GB (something I'm less reluctant to do for pure gamers) as your workloads can definitely use more than 16GB and will benefit from the extra breathing room. If you go with one of the Intel chips I recommended, I'd get any dual channel RAM kit. If you go with Threadripper, you should get a quad channel kit, as Threadripper does benefit from quad channel RAM. I'd also recommend going for 3200MHz RAM for Threadripper, as (1) the platform loves the speed, there are real performance gains over slower ram, and (2) faster RAM can cause problems, particularly with the 1920X. There's just no sensible reason to go beyond 3200Mhz here, IMO.
Ok so now that's all out of the way I'll recommend you some builds. First I'm going to spec a 1920X Threadripper build for you, as if you do a lot of 3D rendering this is where I think you should be looking. If you can afford to go for the 2920X instead, I would recommend it, but it will add £200 to the build and the benefits can be very use case dependent.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/2WbVXP
Please note that this price does not include a cooler, as you didn't mention if you did or didn't need one. I always recommend one of the all in one liquid coolers these days, something like the Corsair H100 if your pc has the fan slots free for it.
If you want to spend a bit more, either go for the 2920X or swap the ram for something a bit faster, not in terms of clock speed (3200Mhz is the palace to be for Threadripper, IMO) but in terms of latency. This next link has some CL14 RAM that will outperform the link above, although the gains may be small (but still, tangible - and far far more so than faster ram with an Intel CPU!).
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/RgMdKZ
For either of the above builds, swap the 1920X for the 2920X if you want to get a bit more performance, and if your budget allows. Keep in mind the other benefit of Threadripper is technically you could always shove the 2990X in this system later... Which is a 32 core 64 thread monster, but with a price that reflects it! (£1500).
If you decide that gaming is more your thing, and you only occasionally use the PC for more serious work, here are two intel based builds for you - the first the more expensive 9900K and the second one that saves some cash with an 8700K.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/GNnssZ
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/YM4ZVY
Both of these builds are spec'd with 32GB of RAM, under the assumption that you do need to do some heavy lifting from time to time. I'm not doing to recommend the 9700K at all here, for the reasons I've discussed above.
Anyway, I hope this huge wall of text helps. There's a lot of information in there, as I had some time and always prefer to talk about why I'd recommend X instead of Y than just give you a list of parts. If you've any more questions or need any further help, please don't hesitate to ask.
Cheers all.
Quote from: Chaosphere;436414... Anyway, I hope this huge wall of text helps.
Amazing response to a member's request for advice. I learned an awful lot from that. Nice one :thumb:
Wow Chaos, thanks that's an incredibly well thought through post.
Spot on with the RAM, the box i'm working with now has 16Gb and hits limits with some apps I'm using a lot sooner that I'd like
Overall I think I'm leaning more towards the i9 build you've linked and grab a new cooler too just to make sure I don't cook it with the workloads I'll sometimes throw at it. These days the 3D I'm doing is more hobby level / just for, but I'm going to have to have a good think about it with what you've said there as I've been enjoying substance painter a lot before the machine went funny and it's a hungry beast.
No problem at all. The 9900 certainly won't disappoint if you're only looking at occasional multithreaded work. It perhaps blurs the line between standard desktop and HEDT a little anyway, which makes it too much for most gamers (I.e. expensive overkill!) but good for the odd bit of heavy lifting here and there. It doesn't hold up to Threadripper once you start spending a good chunk of time 'crunching numbers', and many professionals have moved over to TR4 due to the fantastic price / performance offered here for such use cases. Intel's HEDT line remains strong, but it's entry level CPUs often cost as much as the high end Threadripper parts and just can't match the price / performance offered by team Red. 2017-18 was a really great time for CPUs!
I've got all the parts and putting it together tonight, but I've got a question if if that's okay.
The motherboard has two ATX connectors, a 4 pin and 8 pin. Do they both need to be connected? The motherboard doesn't specify and when I was looking for a cable with that split I've found posts saying only one needs to be hooked up, is this right?
Thanks!
You don't need both, just connect up the 8 pin and you're good to go. The additional 4 pin is really only useful when pushing CPUs to their limits with exotic cooling, and even then most of the time it still isn't absolutely necessary.