Thought I would post this here as it has some admin issues. I was going to reply to DCG’S post.
I still play TCS as if it was PCS, Nothing as changed in my mind but I am having a real problem as an admin. There is stuff going on the server I just don’t agree with, flanking/rushing/lone peeps flanking etc by the defending team amongst others
I know I take a back seat when other dMw admins are on but it’s so unclear, as one mans idea of what is ok it aint to another. I really can’t see how a rush of any kind is a valid tactic if you’re are defending a bomb site. You are there to defend the site, not to go looking for peeps that might choose yours to plant at
The grey areas that need to be cleared up are, IMO, when can you rush, when can one man flank the attacking team, when can you go to the other side of the map and look-over the objective from the attacking team side? Can you hunt down the opposition if there’s only one left? Etc. etc.
The reason I am posting is, if these areas stay unclear I feel I may not be able to admin as others do, as I seem to have different views on what is TCS. I still really enjoy playing CS when the server is full of dMws, but if I join and newer peeps are on and non dMws I try and admin it, and if I say please don’t do this or do that all I get ‘is well we did it last map/day/week and such and such was on and didn’t say anything so what do I do then’?
As I said TCS is PCS in my mind but we all need to piss in the same pot! Some clear guide-lines are needed.
Steve
1. Use the old boundaries
2. Rushing directly from spawn beyond these boundaries as defending team is not allowed
3. "Flanking" is allowed on de maps if the bomb is confirmed to one side/route. On cs_maps there are no need to flank as hostages are close together and easily defended. However, flanking shold be avoided as much as possible as it open up the defence.
4. a. Objective - b. Team - c. Objective - d. Kill ... in that order.
That should be it.
If they don't listen.
1. Issue a text warning.
2. Slap away
3. Slay
4. Kick
5. Ban
And there is the rub. None of the newer people know what the old boundaries were! Consequently confusion reigns.
The website and forum give us the following:
Rules of EngagementThe attacking team has the use of the whole map to achieve the map objective.
The defending team has some restrictions imposed upon them:
- Complete the map objective!
- Guard the bombsites, hostages or VIP as a team.
- Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy.
What seems to be happening is that people are using the 3rd item in the list as an excuse to go solo (OK they will agree it with their team but they still do it). Others see this solo stuff as not in the spirit of how they feel it should be played.
We, as admins, need to find a way to remove the ambiguity that the third line causes. I would hope that the play thet comes out of it would then be acceptable to all.
my 2p please don't fire i'm already injured.
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Feb 9 2004, 05:48 PM
And there is the rub. None of the newer people know what the old boundaries were! Consequently confusion reigns.
The website and forum give us the following:
Rules of Engagement
The attacking team has the use of the whole map to achieve the map objective.
The defending team has some restrictions imposed upon them:- Complete the map objective!
- Guard the bombsites, hostages or VIP as a team.
- Do not stray from your team unless it is as part of a planned team strategy.
What seems to be happening is that people are using the 3rd item in the list as an excuse to go solo (OK they will agree it with their team but they still do it). Others see this solo stuff as not in the spirit of how they feel it should be played.
We, as admins, need to find a way to remove the ambiguity that the third line causes. I would hope that the play thet comes out of it would then be acceptable to all.
my 2p please don't fire i'm already injured. [/b]
Why don't we just remove the third line? Still states the same and no more ambiguity.
Or just shorten it to
- Do not stray from your team
My reply:-
Gonna do it here because i dont want to fuel the ongoing and tbh getting quite nasty dispute but i also dont think it should be stopped becasue in my oppinion this does need sorting.
I have been getting annoyed with TCS and actually blaming TCS for it and tbh i dont think that TCS is to blame i think it is the increasing of members and trying to do it quickly.
If it was just the old regular members it would be superb as everyone would keep to a basic boundary but use the new "Right they have gone long A, smite n squ0nk go round the back" tactic or if you engage someone at doors not have to back off but also know to go back through doors when neccessary.
These are the things which old PCS veterans would know without thinking about it but and this is the BIG but the new members don't know the old PCS or boundaries or teamwork and makes it a nightmare....but when you try to tell someone that they have gone too far it turns into a why? what do u mean where as before we could turn to the boundaries and say "read that".
So to sum up i did think it was TCS to blame but it is'nt it is the new members who just don't understand the rules to the level which all the old PCS members would and just exploit the gaps which we can't because we are still boundary minded.
Right to add to mine:
I think that anybody now joining the dMw servers HAS to have a vetting one on one where they are taken to an empty server and shown the Basic "Boundaries" by an admin and what is and is'nt allowed. This will be a half hour experience where they will go through all of the maps on the rotation.
I would be willing to do this if anyone else will assist.
The new members are the part im not happy with but it is'nt their fault as they dont know the hidden boundary bit.
I also think this should start for a few of the members who already play here.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Feb 9 2004, 07:15 PM
Right to add to mine:
I think that anybody now joining the dMw servers HAS to have a vetting one on one where they are taken to an empty server and shown the Basic "Boundaries" by an admin and what is and is'nt allowed. This will be a half hour experience where they will go through all of the maps on the rotation.
I would be willing to do this if anyone else will assist.
The new members are the part im not happy with but it is'nt their fault as they dont know the hidden boundary bit.
I also think this should start for a few of the members who already play here.
I have done this with some of the players and it works really well. Still i think that going through the entire rotation will be too much to remember.
An alternative could be that we could just hold the first round of the map and turn alltalk on and go through the boundaries as a guide for the players. This way it will not be that much to learn at once.
I have all the jpeg's with the old boundaries still and if you like I can add them to the TCS Maps forum section as a guideline of where to go or not. I think that could be good complement to your suggestion.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Feb 9 2004, 06:15 PM
Right to add to mine:
I think that anybody now joining the dMw servers HAS to have a vetting one on one where they are taken to an empty server and shown the Basic "Boundaries" by an admin and what is and is'nt allowed. This will be a half hour experience where they will go through all of the maps on the rotation.
I would be willing to do this if anyone else will assist.
The new members are the part im not happy with but it is'nt their fault as they dont know the hidden boundary bit.
I also think this should start for a few of the members who already play here.
I think this is an excllent idea. Staggering in its simplicity, why haven't we thought of this before? Further thoguht is required as to format, but I think it has legs. What do do you people think? We could maybe allow them to join up, but then remove access to the password if the next pw change comes along and they have not yet booke don and attended a training session? Would that put too many members off? Is it mangeable from an Admin point of view? Thoughts?
TL.
I would find it a bit heavy to do this for every member that joins Alpha ....maybe the Bravo people could do with it...... Then as part of the role they can police the server when we are not around (which they should anyway)
It does'nt matter if they are alpha, bravo, charlie or delta they should ALL know what is and is'nt allowed.
Any admin's that don't want to do this is fine but i will do it if it means that it improves the education of the people when they first come in, i hope sadako will aswell i remember him showing me around a few when i went onto N42 and did a fine job. (but he does talk loads :D)
TL:
When people first join up state to them that "Admin - Name" will contact them for a convenient time to run through a brief Do's n Dont's that will take approx 10-15 mins where they will be shown Quickly the BASIC map boundaries we all play to on our servers. The Admin will state the IP address of the server to go to.
Would this do?? If this is shared out it would take next to no time.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Feb 9 2004, 09:00 PM
It does'nt matter if they are alpha, bravo, charlie or delta they should ALL know what is and is'nt allowed.
Any admin's that don't want to do this is fine but i will do it if it means that it improves the education of the people when they first come in, i hope sadako will aswell i remember him showing me around a few when i went onto N42 and did a fine job. (but he does talk loads :D)
TL:
When people first join up state to them that "Admin - Name" will contact them for a convenient time to run through a brief Do's n Dont's that will take approx 10-15 mins where they will be shown Quickly the BASIC map boundaries we all play to on our servers. The Admin will state the IP address of the server to go to.
Would this do?? If this is shared out it would take next to no time.
I got the job done. ;)
I will help out when needed.
Quoteif it means that it improves the education of the people when they first come in,
sounds good
yup.... ill lend a hand
Before we do any of this I suggest we agree what the peeps are going to be told. Otherwise we run the risk of each of us telling them something different and just compounding the problem.
Agree..
Sadako has reposted the Boundaries, we should work to them and use common sense on the maps which are not covered.
Teach them the known boundaries and as Smite said use common sense for the rest. Also tell them that they are allowed to cross them BUT should think at least twice about doing it. Bomb down etc
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Feb 10 2004, 09:38 AM
....... common sense......
Ah, common sense, remember that? Those were the days.
I've been racking my single brain cell to think of all the possible reasons for there being fewer people on the servers. This is everything I can think of and some, all or none of these may be the reason so don't flame me, it's just possible reasons:
1. The introduction of TCS and the the aforementioned discussion regarding pros and cons.
2. Live for Speed is proving popular.
3. People are taking a break and playing other games in general (we might see an impact when HL2 or Doom3 are released)
4. More matches appearing on the schedule.
5. Its the start of the year and people are working hard.
6. It is a cyclical phase we are going through and it will pass (happens every year).
7. Everyone is still recovering from the LAN.
OK, so number 6 is a guess and number 7 is a joke but the truth is probably a mixture of most of the reasons I have suggested above.
With all the new people joining to play TCS since it's launch I cannot understand why the numbers are dropping. They should have increased! The new people do not know PCS so they have nothing to compare against. It think that it can only be us old lags who are affecting the regularity of play. What i do not understand is exactly what is causing the problem.
I know I have not been on the server much so I reckon I am to blame. I was actually so popular that because I am not on the server people are leaving in their droves (I think that bit might be untrue too).
Anyway, these are just some thoughts I have come up with to see if we can accurately identify the reason for the drop in numbers. Please add your own suggestions or analysis; I'm not claiming mine is accurate.
Before we set up a formal system offerring such training, may I suggest we actually poll people to see how many would attend? if we are in agreement that it is worth doing then I will phrase something 'appropriate'.
TL.
I can assure you LFS is not poaching. I play, DCG plays a bit, haven't seen Smite for yonks nor TL. In fact hardly any dMw bods!
I'm not suggesting anybody is poaching Ron :)
If people want to play other games then who are we to tell them not to (I love playing games other than CS but CS is my regular haunt). The aim of my post is to try and see if we are identifying the correct reason for the drop in numbers. If we haven't identified the correct reason then we probably won't have the right solution.