Completely pissed me off tonight...
This has come about as 4 times this week i have had to tell him about going too far on maps (I think oldie was there for one of them) he constantly argues about it and doesn't agree.
Tonight on Nuke he went through the little cabin on top and wiped out most of the team, i in anger had enough and slayed him for it (Actually tried slap but failed) i then told him why he got slayed and got abuse for it.
Now i can't find any reference to the old limits for this map but CT's were not allowed through there as i remember.
Ruined what a good night i was having and tbh the argument that was going on ruined it for everyone else on the server. What was a fun atmosphere changed instantly.
Im very very Pissed off.
i 've got to agree with smite on this he seems to be crossing boundries all the time
we was having a good night up untill this incident happened and really think a word in duvel's shell like is needed it spoilt what was a really fun night :(
OK, so we need to rectify the situation. Suggestions please.
TL.
It is nuke we are talking about for everyones reference.
In DuVeLs defense the actual move he pulled off was ok in my book. He was at top bomsite when he heard the Ts rushing towards topsite. He called the rush and then entered the shed and fired full auto and got 4 of 7 Ts. The round wasn't completely fresh and he didn't enter the shed right away.
After the slay from you smite he was really abusive over the voicecomm as he felt really badly treated. I don't think it helped either that DuVeL had had about 10 beers as well. We tried to calm him down and I told him that it would certainly discussed this in the admin section, which calmed him down a bit. Still it was not a good mood in the CT camp so to say.
Regarding him breaking boundaries I haven't noticed it before. Actually previously on Inferno tonight DuVeL playing CT were telling the CTs to fall back as Blunt and some others were advancing way too far.
looking at rons post it looks like he was out of order(i couldnt hear his vc as i was on the other team) and i feel this needs niping in the bud and quick this is not why we play on the hook this is for publics and even then it shouldnt happen ..he is wearing our tag and this shouldnt happen no matter how much ya drank (i take it he had had a few) but then again so had most peeps (as usual on a friday) this is not away to conduct ya self
Sadako i have ran from CT spawn, up the ladder and dropped down to take on the rush of T's, if you were to go through the door you would meet at the point we did and we ran straight from our spawn.
The map WAS Nuke.
TBH sadako you havn't been on a lot this week and i am trying to get back into this game and it's things like this that ruin it for me.
As an admin i step back quite a lot but this is getting out of order for a few people but when someone is told they are in an area they shouldn't be they say ok sorry Duvel argues and argues....He should say ok but if he wants to take it further then send a pm after the game not carry on like this.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Mar 13 2004, 01:09 AM
Sadako i have ran from CT spawn, up the ladder and dropped down to take on the rush of T's, if you were to go through the door you would meet at the point we did and we ran straight from our spawn.
The map WAS Nuke.
TBH sadako you havn't been on a lot this week and i am trying to get back into this game and it's things like this that ruin it for me.
As an admin i step back quite a lot but this is getting out of order for a few people but when someone is told they are in an area they shouldn't be they say ok sorry Duvel argues and argues....He should say ok but if he wants to take it further then send a pm after the game not carry on like this.
Yes you are right the map was nuke . I am bit tired now. Have been trying to calm down DuVeL both over voicecomm and telephone (!)... :lol: :blink: .
True I haven't been on much this week. I was also put off but what happened.
He did not go up the ladder and then drop down to the shed. He came from the left side (outside) entrance and then advanced to the shed.
At first I thought you slayed him for fun tbh because he killed you as some slapping had been on train (the previous map). It was first when DuVeL started to bitch about it I understood that something had happened.
I convinced DuVeL to sleep it off until tomorrow and that we would deal with it in here and then tell him the decision.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sadako@Mar 13 2004, 12:28 AM
At first I thought you slayed him for fun tbh because he killed you as some slapping had been on train (the previous map). It was first when DuVeL started to bitch about it I understood that something had happened.
I will be honest sadako i have no idea what that is about, i have no recollection of anything to do with duvel on train.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite+Mar 13 2004, 01:35 AM-->
| QUOTE (smite @ Mar 13 2004, 01:35 AM) |
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As I see it, this is not a discussion about where you should or shouldn't be. It is about his ATTITUDE and his language! If it is finally decided that where he was is ok then his language and demeanor was ok too.
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Mar 12 2004, 11:52 PM
OK, so we need to rectify the situation. Suggestions please.
TL. One of your famous PMs might do the trick!
I think we have two separate issues here.
1. Sorting the abusive language and attitude tonight with DuVeL irrespectively if he was out of bounds or not. What he needs is to know that he is not an admin and not to argue with an admin decision. If he has concerns it should go through the normal channels i.e. pm or mail. Also I think we need to tell him why he got slayed. From what I got form the telephone call he didn't understand why he got slayed. CTs had been in that area previous rounds and had not been slayed.
I think he will be calmer tomorrow when the beers left his body.
2. We need to establish a common judging ground for all the admins i.e. boundaries that we all agree on so we don't fall into a discussion on the server so that we show a unified front out towards the community. This in turn leads to more holding hand on the server with all the new players (but also the regulars) showing the 'boundaries'. Still it is TCS which leads to judgment calls but if we have a common ground it will be easier for us to see if it is right or wrong.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sadako@Mar 13 2004, 01:14 AM
I think we have two separate issues here.
1. Sorting the abusive language and attitude tonight with DuVeL irrespectively if he was out of bounds or not. What he needs is to know that he is not an admin and not to argue with an admin decision. If he has concerns it should go through the normal channels i.e. pm or mail. Also I think we need to tell him why he got slayed. From what I got form the telephone call he didn't understand why he got slayed. CTs had been in that area previous rounds and had not been slayed.
I think he will be calmer tomorrow when the beers left his body.
2. We need to establish a common judging ground for all the admins i.e. boundaries that we all agree on so we don't fall into a discussion on the server so that we show a unified front out towards the community. This in turn leads to more holding hand on the server with all the new players (but also the regulars) showing the 'boundaries'. Still it is TCS which leads to judgment calls but if we have a common ground it will be easier for us to see if it is right or wrong. 1. I don't think you should make excuses for him. He'll be calmer tomorrow?! He is not a multimillion pound signing! The whole sorry mess was about his attitude. Beer or not, it is no excuse. We've all been over the odds alcohol wise and not degenerated to that level. 2. Knock this silly slaying and slapping business on the head. It's undignified! 3. Establishing common judging ground? Deja vu! I refer the honourable gentleman to the thread not so long ago "PCS or TCS" and the misgivings therein. You really can't have it both ways. 4. I'm rather tired now, but to finish, I was heartened by the general discontent with his behaviour but disappointed that decisive action wasn't taken. Ah well, life goes on. I supposed it livened up a Friday evening. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Mar 13 2004, 03:33 AM
1. I don't think you should make excuses for him. He'll be calmer tomorrow?! He is not a multimillion pound signing! The whole sorry mess was about his attitude. Beer or not, it is no excuse. We've all been over the odds alcohol wise and not degenerated to that level.
2. Knock this silly slaying and slapping business on the head. It's undignified!
3. Establishing common judging ground? Deja vu! I refer the honourable gentleman to the thread not so long ago "PCS or TCS" and the misgivings therein. You really can't have it both ways.
4. I'm rather tired now, but to finish, I was heartened by the general discontent with his behaviour but disappointed that decisive action wasn't taken.
Ah well, life goes on. I supposed it livened up a Friday evening. :D 1. I was not making excuses for him rather suggesting that it wil be easier to communicate with him when he is calmer. Last night there was no point in trying to reprimand him in his current state. It didn't become any better that most of CT was bitching over him on voicecomm making him even more agitated and almost impossible for me or you Doorman to contact him. The most important thing to me last night was to calm him down enough to get a message through and tell him "we will deal with this tomorrorow". That took over 30 minutes in game and on phone. 2. I agree. Slap and slay are good getting in line methods and shouldn't be abused. 3. Everything isn't black and white Doorman. TCS have worked really well the last months and there have not been any need to go over the boundaries before imho. Also most of us have a common PCS background and know most of the maps in that situation. Nuke is an exception as in haven't been in the rotation and hence there is a discrepancy on what is allowed or not. Still the discussed shed on nuke is still only 1 meter wide so it is not a large error in boundary crossing so to say. 4. Tell me about it. Add one hour and you know how I experienced it. Also I had to go up at 8 this morning. :) Cheers,
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman+Mar 13 2004, 12:49 AM--> | QUOTE (Doorman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:49 AM) |
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Mar 12 2004, 11:29 PM
Completely pissed me off tonight...
This has come about as 4 times this week i have had to tell him about going too far on maps (I think oldie was there for one of them) he constantly argues about it and doesn't agree.
Tonight on Nuke he went through the little cabin on top and wiped out most of the team, i in anger had enough and slayed him for it (Actually tried slap but failed) i then told him why he got slayed and got abuse for it.
Now i can't find any reference to the old limits for this map but CT's were not allowed through there as i remember.
Ruined what a good night i was having and tbh the argument that was going on ruined it for everyone else on the server. What was a fun atmosphere changed instantly.
Im very very Pissed off. I thought about merging this thread with the other thread currently running, but then I realised moving it from here to the other Admin section would cut out the TCS Admin views here. My thoughts: /political sensitivity raised to maximum 1. Smite, you should apologise via PM to Duvel for slaying him. You can reaffirm to him that Admins shouldn't just slay and that it was a mistake. This should help him in the cooling off process and will then mean that he should have a relatively open mind when we talk to him about the other issues. It should be concilliatory in tone, sent preferably by Smite (public cc to OB/TL) so that Duvel knows that OB/TL know Smite has apologised for the slay. 2. Then you can start dealing with the problem - which is pushing the boundaries a little too hard and the DUI ('dissing under the influence). A carefully worded PM again should suffice. Any PM like this needs to leave room for the other person to manouvre. If you write a PM that backs the person into the corner then expect their response to be them coming out of the corner fighting - and then the situation escalates which we don't need. If you want help drafting something let me know. A final note of caution: Rogue's Gallery is meant to be just for the facts about rogue players. We should be mindful not to go too far in this thread with anything too personal. There is an Admin Discussion topic in which anything other than fact should go. TL.
Morning all.....
What a night.
Yep i will head this one up with Duvel and if he doesn't agree with what i say he can take it further with a head admin.
On the slap/slay thing i really was at the end of my tether with duvel, all week i had to tell him he's going too far on maps ....... I wasn't sure what to do next as he just wasn't listening to me and kept arguing.
Im also here to have fun and the fun element of playing and admining are stretching it thin.
I will have a chat with Duvel and point out in the rules again for the procedure for a complaint against an admin and about swearing.
One Flu'ed up smite out
Sorry TL i didn't see your post... I have sent Duvel a PM appologising and saying what reasons led to it and about his actions after it were out of order.
As of now i resign from being an admin.
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke+Mar 13 2004, 08:30 AM--> | QUOTE (OldBloke @ Mar 13 2004, 08:30 AM) | QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Mar 13 2004, 12:49 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Mar 13 2004, 09:29 AM
Sorry TL i didn't see your post... I have sent Duvel a PM appologising and saying what reasons led to it and about his actions after it were out of order.
As of now i resign from being an admin. Aw don't do that Smite. You're a good guy so there is no need to let this episode dissuade you from being an Admin. Stay m8
Resignation refused. :narnar:
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Mar 13 2004, 10:04 AM
Resignation refused. :narnar: See can't even do that right. :( ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by smite+Mar 13 2004, 10:25 AM--> | QUOTE (smite @ Mar 13 2004, 10:25 AM) | |
Getting this discussion back on track ...
Can I suggest that in future if a player, ANY PLAYER, after having been warned by an admin is being disruptive or generally spoiling the enjoyment of others then he is given a 24 hour ban as per our code of conduct rules. If at the same time we remember to note the full circumstances of the episode then dealing with it later will be much easier.
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Mar 13 2004, 10:04 AM
Resignation refused. :narnar: Well said that man!
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke+Mar 13 2004, 08:30 AM--> | QUOTE (OldBloke @ Mar 13 2004, 08:30 AM) | QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Mar 13 2004, 12:49 AM
I wasn't there but from reading the topic the facts are:
1) Duvel did something in game to spoil the round
2) Duvel persisted in using bad language after being told not to
he should have
1) Been given a warning for going too far on the map
2) Kept his mouth shut and aired his views in the Charlie company forums
Whether there is an underlying problem to address is neither here nor there, Duvel should be given a friendly advice/ warning via PM mentioning that a number of other community members have complained about his language in game and that the admins will be keeping a close eye (or ear) on him. If he has a repeat performance, a formal warning mentioning if he he is on his last legs and another repeat may lead to a ban and expulsion from dMw.
We all have a few moments of weakness and open our gobs when we're not supposed to (last LAN was mine, oh and the tourney where Strider was being an TANGO) and normally we regret it al lin the morning and applogise. Has Duvel made his appologies? I would say that would settle the matter for now.
As for admin standards, I don't see a problem the way things are, it doesn't take a genius to realise when someone is doing something that puts the quality of the TCS in jeopardy. If you see a problem, slap it, warn it and if it happens again kick it.
I've not played much since Christmas so I guess I have an objective view of this :-)
It sounds like smite had, had it up to his kneck with duvel after a weeks worth of his straying over boundries.
When players continually refuse to take heed of warnings then yes its best they are told to take it to the forum, ref the procedures and then be banned for 24hrs to give them time to cool off. Knowing smite I'd say hes too much of a nice chap to ban someone even if with hind-sight it would of been the best course of action.
If I were smite, in future I'd just stick to the code of conduct and if that means banning someone being abusive then do it.... being nice gets you walked all over, following the procedure means noone can touch you :)
He has made a public appology for the swearing at my request.
The boundary pushing is just going to be something of a learning curve for me and others. The problem is as stated in "TCS working" thread posted by DCG members of the old PCS school have a certain eye for where or where not to go on a map the new members dont. On that note i need to try and get to grips with the possibility that the boundaries are not as tight as they used to be.
I personally think Duvel was just Frag hunting on this occasion.
Like Stryker says im not a very strong Admin and don't like to upset people, but can appear quite Blunt sometimes ;) (i have a way with words)
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