Poll
Question:
Grant Charlie status to GhostMjr?
Option 1:
votes: 0
QuoteOriginally posted by GhostMjr on 23rd December
Hi guys,
I wish you all the best for xmas and hope to c u on the servers for the xmas event!
I feel that since joining cs i have learnt alot of new tehniques but many have been brought to my attention by dmw members that are alot more experienced than me but take the time to show me their skills! My voicecoms were very basic and were not up to scratch and so was my ability to work as in a team whilst underfire. I feel now however that the time is right to once again put my name forward to become a charlie member of the clan. In my opinion i am commited to the clan and a regular on both the servers and try to browse through the forums regularly in between my studies. Voicecoms are hard in the gaming world but i think mine have got better and i am confident to call out where the bomb and hostages r and to aid any1 in my team! I am always open for matches if ever neede and if considered would be happy to attend practices etc..
I hope i am successful with my application third time lucky as the saying goes.
Thanks and i hope you have a nice christmas and a happy new year
Scott Fergusson
(aka GhostMjr
This PM was received from GhostMjr on 23rd December, my apologies for not posting this sooner - I have been kinda busy :rolleyes:
I note that this is his third application for Charlie Company and would refer everyone to the other threads here (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7521&b=1&st=&p=&#entry) and here (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6540&b=1&st=&p=&#entry).
To my mind he has made significant progress since these previous applications and has improved on almost all counts. The question you have to ask yourself is has he improved sufficiently to warrant consideration and if so, is he the right type of person for Charlie Company membership?
TL.
I must admit I never thought I would write this but I voted Yes. He has become much more team oriented since his last application and he makes an effort to improve.
Yes he is a bit childish and needy at times but I feel that has faded a bit tbh. I think he could be a contribution to our thin charlie squad atm. He is around much more than most of our current charlie members. I think that If we the SLs direct him he will evolve to become a fine charlie member.
As soon as I read his post I immediatly planned to write something about it being very perverse that someone who is clearly so much more dedicated to match play than me struggles to get admission to Charlie Squad, while I (and one or two others) languish here while only playing a match very occassionally. But Sadako has already said as much, so I'll just agree and say 'yes let him in this time please :) '
I voted 'Yes'.
All the things we asked of him he has delivered on.
My only reservation now is his computer reliability. <_<
Would the 'no' voters please post a reason.
I voted no
I haven’t seen him around that much to say that he as changed any, in his team play and his immature behaviour.
I just don’t think he is the right kind of person for Charlie, we already have one or two players within Charlie that imo let the good name of dMw down I don’t wish to have any more. So the less we have like this the better.
After saying that I may well be taking this whole thing to serious .I thought Charlie was about friends/mature people meeting up to play games the way we enjoy playing but if its just about numbers then I got it wrong.
I really think we should have an invite system to promote people to Charlie.
I voted No, although I took a while to come to that conclusion - it was not easy. I also shoudl add that I voted before I added the 'Not yet' option to the poll so I made it a little more difficult on myself than it needed to have been :rolleyes:
As I acknowledged above, GM has improved in all of the areas we have asked him to improve and he should be congratulated for that. But, I came to the conclusion that at the moment I still do not see him as the type of person whom I would want to see representing dMw on other servers. I still see him as immature, prone to the occassional rash behaviour (as noted in Rogue's Gallery) and therefore not of the premium quality stuff that we call Charlie. After all, it is only 4 months since my last major correspondence with him, a series of PMs that seemed to demonstrate that he did not understand our (the Admins) point of view at all. I'm not convinced that he has had sufficient time to grow beyond that juvenile stage yet.
My conclusion may still be tinged by subjectivity rather than objectivity, but it's how I feel right now. With hindsight I would have voted for 'Not yet' probably, but I voted as I did.
That probably sounds like some lamo BS, but it's the best I can do this morning.......
TL.
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Dec 27 2004, 01:00 PM
I still do not see him as the type of person whom I would want to see representing dMw on other servers. TL.
[post=73097]Quoted post[/post]
Then maybe we should kick him out of Bravo instead. He wears our wings atm. :devil:
I am with Squonk on what he is writing about invite only. I voted yes with regards to the current rules/regulations required to get into Charlie. Imho Ghostmjr has fulfilled those and I think it would be unfair that he should be treated different than others.
Spring cleaning amongst Charlie (tranfer to shadow or Bravo) wouldn't be a bad idea. At present we have 43 Charlies of which 14 never have played one single match and about 10 have played less than 5 matches. There are 12 members that have more than 100 kills i.e. plays the majority of the matches.
It is from the above I based my Yes.
Im holding out till after the Tourny ...I having him on the squad will give me a good chance to check him out ... :D
I voted not yet, he has as has been mentioned by others improved a hell of a lot but I still don 't see him yet as quite up to the mark as a charlie. However if he keeps doing what he is doing I have no doubt he will be a fine addition to the team.
Oh yes I'm with the others on the invite thing.
I have to vote yes ...and tbh i dont want to
He was excellent through the tourny ...willing to try stuff and also good shot
The only draw back is he need alot of direction ....but tell him to guard an area and he will cover till the timer runs out :)
He still comes out with the odd bit of bollox but if you tell him he shuts up and seems not to take offence :D
I'm an abstension. He doesn't fill me with bon homie. You know how some people you instantly like, some you grow to like and some.....................he's one of the latter I'm afraid
No from me after all that bollox with the FTP server. Sorry but he doesn't fill me with confidence as a Charlie
QuoteA member of Charlie Company is *not* just a match-playing Bravo. No way. TeaLeaf and I are happy to apply the 'no problem' rule to Bravo applicants but Charlie membership requires a much stricter set of criteria. This is why there is a mandatory two-month probation period for all new Charlie members to make sure that they are made of the 'right stuff' . During those two month we, as admins, will make sure that we monitor them closely, provide coaching/training/advice where necessary and provide feedback on their performance. Anyone not coming up to scratch will be bounced back to Bravo.
I may be a bit out of line, but I'm worried we all have a somewhat different idea about "what the right stuff" actually is?
I'm worried that we haven't actually got a consensus as to what it is at all, and this shows itself every time G Mjr applies for membership.
To be honest I'm beginning to feel really sorry for the chap and his applications fill me with dread everytime he applies as I know he's likely to be knocked back 'again'.
Can we agree implicitly on what a person needs to be a Charlie and assume that he either has it or doesn't, for good. This way we don't have to subject him to this three monthly ordeal. Personally I would like to say to him 'yes your in' or 'no your not and you never will be'.
Feel free to disagree with me completely though.
I'm not sure that you *can* set out in stone what you, I or anyone else deems to be suitable for Charlie. It requires OB and me to set in stone and 100% accurately define what Charlie is - and that is something we cannot due for historical reasons. But one of the purposes of the group vote is to try to filter out subjective unreasonableness if it surfaces. I stated my opinion which by definistion will vary from that held by other people.
In any case, I raise your counter argument by one GM post and call. Let's see the cards ;)
T"FTP"L.
Todays FTP post tore down all the good things he has done the last three months. Change my vote to a No. I really thought he had changed but I guess not.
Btw have anyone sent a PM to him regarding that post?
no from me too, sigh.
sat near him at the lan and he aint a bad chap. but his behaviour on other servers is still one of my biggest problems, it seems he has a few friends who are just into being complete morons admin abuse, n00b this, omg that, we all know hes easily influenced and part of this thing we have involves respecting our wings. while under our supervision he remains mostly improving but as perfectly demonstrated by that mental moment we shall refer to as the ftp incident it again confirms hes not ready yet.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dr Sadako@Dec 28 2004, 01:03 AM
Btw have anyone sent a PM to him regarding that post?
[post=73201]Quoted post[/post]
No, not yet. He has been given a strong indication that he should send a PM to OB and me and I feel a period of delay is in order. If he does not reply then we will send him a PM about it asking for further info.
TL.
I've read that too and I have to agree, it was a stupid thing to do. I'm still a little worried about Charlie membership generally but Ghost Mjr can't do this sort of stuff and expect to get selected. :( I'd vote no as well given a second chance.
On the other hand ...
It could just be that he's trying *too* hard to please. The FTP offer was, in my honest opinion, a (poorly executed) attempt at being seen as 'community spirited'.
QuoteI am sorry for the ftp thread. I thought there was no harm sharing my computer drives with that of the clan! Yes there is illegal movies etc there but i thought it would be good for others of the clan to upload download to an ftp server! I know that dmw has their own and am not sure of how you guys advertise it but obviously i have yet again made a stupid mistake and am sorry! In future i will consult you and TL for your feedback as you are incharge of the clan and i am not so this was a mistake that should not have been made
I hope you enjoy your new year and am sorry for any misgrievences
Scott
aka GhostMjr
'Naive' doesn't quite cover it, does it? :eyebrow:
I am going to PM him with some very straight talking. He will be told that he is not, and never likely to ever be, 'Charlie' material. As this will be his third rejection I will invent a new rule of 'three strikes and you're out' and as such inform him that he is ineligible to apply again in the future.
That sorts that issue. However, there are lots of related side-issues being bandied about that need to be brought together and I'll start a separate thread for our discussions.
Does Ghostmjr know he isn't getting another shot at clan membership. If so it seems odd that he's still getting his dad to compose all his forum posts for him. :eyebrow:
QuoteOriginally posted by smilodon@Jan 26 2005, 05:40 PM
Does Ghostmjr know he isn't getting another shot at clan membership. If so it seems odd that he's still getting his dad to compose all his forum posts for him. :eyebrow:
[post=75722]Quoted post[/post]
He knows. :dummy:
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Dec 28 2004, 01:40 PM
On the other hand ...
It could just be that he's trying *too* hard to please. The FTP offer was, in my honest opinion, a (poorly executed) attempt at being seen as 'community spirited'.
'Naive' doesn't quite cover it, does it? :eyebrow:
I am going to PM him with some very straight talking. He will be told that he is not, and never likely to ever be, 'Charlie' material. As this will be his third rejection I will invent a new rule of 'three strikes and you're out' and as such inform him that he is ineligible to apply again in the future.
That sorts that issue. However, there are lots of related side-issues being bandied about that need to be brought together and I'll start a separate thread for our discussions.
[post=73228]Quoted post[/post]
I have received a PM from GhostMjr asking me to propose him for Charlie membership. He has mentioned that he has approached a couple of other peeps too (whose names I know but won't mention for now).
What is the state of play with regards to him applying for Charlie membership again. Before I respond to him I'd appreciate confirmation that what I can read above (i.e no more applications) is where we stand.
If this is the state of play then I am concerned that he really did not understand the last time that he would not be considered for Charlie membership.
Is it a case of 'keep pestering and softhearted ole admins will fall over' syndrome. Either that or he suffers from 'pachydermus dermus' :D
I was one of the others BB mentions up there a bit.
Personally, I think he is a good guy at heart and his CS/ teamplay is very good. I've been excluded the frustration of the foot in mouth forum entries he used to come up with by note actually reading them before they get chucked in the compose corner.
I would have thought after rejection 3 times he would have goten the message and stopped playing CS with us, but he is trying and he is no different to any other Charlie member in terms of enthusiasm and teamplay. A little different in personality but aren't we all.
Bump
OB, TL feedback please?
Damn and blast you, I was hoping for more thinking time. I am still pondering, it's a difficult one and I am trying to validate my current reasoning. Some more time please :(
TL.
In desparation I thought I should refer to my last comments from the previous application as I thought they may help me a little. Then I came to the startling and simple conclusion that I was trying to put the cart before the horse.
Yes he may apply for Charlie Company membership as per the membership rules and criteria in the same way as any other member. There is no specific rule that says he cannot. Although we have asked him not to, he does not have to take on board our 'friendly words'.
I will leave my further deliberations for such time as a supported application is actually forthcoming.
Sorry for the delay.
TL.
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Apr 5 2005, 11:35 AM
Damn and blast you, I was hoping for more thinking time. I am still pondering, it's a difficult one and I am trying to validate my current reasoning. Some more time please :(
TL.
[post=81297]Quoted post[/post]
No that's fine. I'd sooner we gave the correct response than a hurried one. I have my own opinion but I don't want to post yet in case it sways people.
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Apr 5 2005, 11:43 AM
................... in case it sways people.
[post=81299]Quoted post[/post]
Nah, I don't think anyone's been swayed by anything you've said in the past. Why change the habit of a lifetime? :winkiss:
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Apr 5 2005, 11:46 AM
Nah, I don't think anyone's been swayed by anything you've said in the past. Why change the habit of a lifetime? :winkiss:
[post=81300]Quoted post[/post]
:lmfao:
Have I told you lately that I love you :winkiss:
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Apr 5 2005, 11:42 AM
In desparation I thought I should refer to my last comments from the previous application as I thought they may help me a little. Then I came to the startling and simple conclusion that I was trying to put the cart before the horse.
Yes he may apply for Charlie Company membership as per the membership rules and criteria in the same way as any other member. There is no specific rule that says he cannot. Although we have asked him not to, he does not have to take on board our 'friendly words'.
I will leave my further deliberations for such time as a supported application is actually forthcoming.
Sorry for the delay.
TL.
[post=81298]Quoted post[/post]
Thanks TL.
You came to the same conclusion as me in that he should be allowed to apply because we do not publicise a rule saying people cannot after so many failures.
I chickened out and voted 'not yet'. Nothing is forever is it. He might get a personality transplant.
Before we get too democratic ...
Consider the implications of saying he can (providing he can get sponsors) apply again and *then* reject his application for a fourth time. Not pleasant.
Personally, I think it's much better for him to accept our 'three strikes and you've blown it' rule (we can always write it up if necessary) than to go through this process again with the distinct possibility of being rejected again.
Here is the text of the PM I sent to Scot tonight (before I had read OB's response). Hopefully it fits in?
QuoteHi Scot (GM)
Sorry for the delay in replying but I have been considering very carefully your request of me. You said in your message that you were unsure as to whether you should apply for Charlie again. I think that you should apply for Charlie again but my personal opinion (and it is only my opinion) is that you should wait for about 3 months before doing so.
I appreciate that you may find it disappointing that I respond in that way but please let me explain my reasoning.
As you have stated in your request your previous applications were maybe not best timed. I realise that you are incredibly keen to be a Charlie Company member and I think that, in the past, you have maybe tried too hard to fit in and be part of the team. As you mention you have recently carried out Admin duties in UKCSL and your posting in the forums and conduct on the servers is now reaching what we would expect from a Charlie company member. That is why I believe you should continue in your present way for about 3 months; to give yourself a track record of carefully considered forum responses, continued good teamwork on the server and, I assume, continued good work as a UKCSL admin.
If you continue in your present way over the next few months then I assure you that I will act as your proposer for Charlie Company membership at that point. I feel you will give yourself a better chance of success if you take this approach.
If you are open to some advice it would be don't try too hard; be yourself, don't try and emulate others, keep giving thought to your forum responses before posting them as it has made them much more readable.
Finally please be aware that if Albert and I propose/second you then we would not vote in the application as it would be unfair to do so.
I hope that you receive this message in the spirit in which it is sent and trust that you continue to grow in the community. As I promised if you continue in this way then I will propose you in a few months.
Thank you for thinking of me as your proposer and I hope things keep going well.
Regards Mike (BB)
I decided on my course of action after going and re-reading the Charlie Company Requirements (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8504&view=findpost&p=76273).
I think that he has made great progress but I was not ready to propose him. I personally feel that he has reached the right level but I have not seen consistency and that is why I decided to decline to be his proposer. I know he will be disappointed but I think the guy can make it if he gives himself a chance. He loves dMw (how many people do you know who would keep trying so hard to join?) and if he can continue in this way I feel he would be a stalwart member. I just hope he takes the PM in the right spirit? :unsure:
Nicely worded BB.
TL.
I had a reply from GM. He has taken my PM in the spirit in which it was offered :)
Hasn't stopped him from posting complete and utter bollox though ...
http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showt...indpost&p=83387 (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9381&view=findpost&p=83387)
I know he means well but sheesh :eyebrow:
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 6 2005, 04:16 PM
Hasn't stopped him from posting complete and utter bollox though ...
http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showt...indpost&p=83387 (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9381&view=findpost&p=83387)
I know he means well but sheesh :eyebrow:
[post=81399]Quoted post[/post]
It'll take more than me to stop him doing that I'm sure :D
TBH it's what makes him Ghosty ;)
I thought we had agreed 3 strikes and your out myself. I know hes trying but I thought a descion had been made and if thats the case we should stick to it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Gh0st Face Killah@Apr 9 2005, 12:19 AM
I thought we had agreed 3 strikes and your out myself. I know hes trying but I thought a descion had been made and if thats the case we should stick to it.
[post=81541]Quoted post[/post]
We hadn't agreed anything. OB stated that was how it was going to be - it hasn't been discussed, hasn't been publicised and frankly I don't like the idea of anybody never being allowed to apply again - people change, get older wiser(/stupider? me looks in mirror and grins).
I do not think we need such a rule when a proposer and 2 seconders are required. If 3 people think somebody is worth proposing then it is worth a vote. If the person is a liability then surely he would not find sufficient people to propose/second him?
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Apr 9 2005, 10:00 AM
We hadn't agreed anything. OB stated that was how it was going to be - it hasn't been discussed, hasn't been publicised and frankly I don't like the idea of anybody never being allowed to apply again - people change, get older wiser(/stupider? me looks in mirror and grins).
I do not think we need such a rule when a proposer and 2 seconders are required. If 3 people think somebody is worth proposing then it is worth a vote. If the person is a liability then surely he would not find sufficient people to propose/second him?
[post=81554]Quoted post[/post]
The above reads more aggressive than I would like or mean. Please bear this in mind when reading it ;) I'm tired and can't think of the right words.
Read fine to me. But I disagree.
When we reject someone we inform them of the reasons for the rejection and what they need to do to increase their chances of a subsequent successful application. As GMjr has applied three times he has had this advice twice yet has not managed to achieve the standard we demand. There must be a limit, surely?
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 9 2005, 10:53 AM
Read fine to me. But I disagree.
When we reject someone we inform them of the reasons for the rejection and what they need to do to increase their chances of a subsequent successful application. As GMjr has applied three times he has had this advice twice yet has not managed to achieve the standard we demand. There must be a limit, surely?
[post=81560]Quoted post[/post]
Glad I didn't upset anyone :)
I'm not sure. Do we need a limit? Should we completely bar anyone from ever applying again? Should we make it after 3 unsuccesful attempts then you can only join by being invited?
I'm not comfortable with completely barring people from reapplying. At the end of the day we are just a gaming community and I think this is all getting a bit serious. Yes we should have high standards and yes we are THE gaming community :D but a lifetime ban on reapplying just seems too over the top to me.
2p <- mine ;)
Ahh but we're not saying they're not welcome in the community, just that they're not suitable for the next level up. GMjr is a tag-wearing dMw'er after all.
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 9 2005, 12:23 PM
Ahh but we're not saying they're not welcome in the community, just that they're not suitable for the next level up. GMjr is a tag-wearing dMw'er after all.
[post=81566]Quoted post[/post]
That's half my argument. Much of the criticisim has been around concerns people have regarding his behaviour on other servers (I'm not aware of him causing probs but others have intimated that there are probs). As he wears the tag already should we be considering taking it from him? To an outsider seeing the tag there is no diff between Bravo and Charlie they just see dMw so are we shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted?
B"Devil's Advocate"B
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 6 2005, 05:16 PM
Hasn't stopped him from posting complete and utter bollox though ...
http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showt...indpost&p=83387 (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9381&view=findpost&p=83387)
I know he means well but sheesh :eyebrow:
[post=81399]Quoted post[/post]
Nothing wrong with that IMHO, ok it makes no sense whatsoever but he knows what he means and that's what counts. lol. :D
FYI, I also responded to his request for proposal with the same 3 month lead time as BB did. At the end of the day, if we propose he gets C membership and the vote goes against him again, then that'll be that. Although I can't think of anything bad to say against him, apart from the odd case of foot in mouth, /me removes own foot from own mouth, again, and again. :)
Sorry to say it again, but there wouldn't be this angst if Charlie membership was by invitation.
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Apr 10 2005, 06:18 PM
Sorry to say it again, but there wouldn't be this angst if Charlie membership was by invitation.
[post=81603]Quoted post[/post]
Who would be responsible for doing the inviting?
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 10 2005, 06:32 PM
Who would be responsible for doing the inviting?
[post=81605]Quoted post[/post]
Ron :devil:
Whoever among us felt that someone would be a good candidate. His suggestion would be put to the other admins and a vote would take place. Depending on the outcome of the vote, an invitation would be issued. The proposer would be faced with the job of asking said candidate whether he would accept. That way the only person to face any kind of rejection would be the proposer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Apr 10 2005, 11:11 PM
Whoever among us felt that someone would be a good candidate. His suggestion would be put to the other admins and a vote would take place. Depending on the outcome of the vote, an invitation would be issued. The proposer would be faced with the job of asking said candidate whether he would accept. That way the only person to face any kind of rejection would be the proposer.
[post=81627]Quoted post[/post]
OK. I'm mulling. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by OldBloke@Apr 11 2005, 06:12 AM
OK. I'm mulling. :)
[post=81632]Quoted post[/post]
:D
QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Apr 10 2005, 11:11 PM
Whoever among us felt that someone would be a good candidate. His suggestion would be put to the other admins and a vote would take place. Depending on the outcome of the vote, an invitation would be issued. The proposer would be faced with the job of asking said candidate whether he would accept. That way the only person to face any kind of rejection would be the proposer.
[post=81627]Quoted post[/post]
This is not all that far removed from "how things used to be in the good old days"â,,¢
The admins would announce that we were having a recruiting drive and ask people to apply. If somebody they hoped would apply didn't he was sent a PM encouraging him (it's how I got in :devil:)
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Apr 11 2005, 10:22 AM
This is not all that far removed from "how things used to be in the good old days"â,,¢
[post=81645]Quoted post[/post]
Erm..... it is completely different as the person would not know they were being put forward to join only the proposer and the admins would.
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Apr 11 2005, 04:11 PM
Erm..... it is completely different as the person would not know they were being put forward to join only the proposer and the admins would.
[post=81667]Quoted post[/post]
Well to me its not that different OK ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Apr 11 2005, 04:18 PM
Well to me its not that different OK ;)
[post=81668]Quoted post[/post]
LOL ...Girl :D
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Apr 11 2005, 06:26 PM
LOL ...Girl :D
[post=81678]Quoted post[/post]
Smack the back of his legs! :angry:
QuoteOriginally posted by smite@Apr 11 2005, 06:26 PM
LOL ...Girl :D
[post=81678]Quoted post[/post]
Handbags at 5 paces :)
Now this is scary. Look how many views the thread has had. Is it an omen?
(http://www.sutherlandweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dmw/images/gmjr.jpg)