Dead Men Walking

Well Gents, it's been two months since we began trialling the concept of squads in the clan and, as promised, it's time to review that decision.

I would like this to be a full and frank discussion so do not be afraid to speak your mind.

When everyone has had a chance to have their say we will vote on any resulting proposals.

So let's hear it people. How was it for you?

Recap of Squad system:

We have 25 members not all of which are 'match-active'.
We selected the top 8 players in the clan to form the Zombie squad.
All other clan members formed the Ghost squad.
Zombies play their matches in Clanbase on Thursdays.
Ghosts play their matches in Enemy Down on Wednesdays and Sundays.
Zombies cannot play for Ghosts to the exclusion of an available Ghost and vice versa.

I'm still in the catch-22 situation.... I've not played as much cos I miss not playing with the winners of the popularity compo.... erm skill set :-)

I'm still of the mind I'd rather a mix and match..... then again it all depends on how far of a slip we've made into the "play to win" mind set.

The place a zombie crew would be best suited would be if we ever entered into a "knock-out" torny... but thats just common sense.

As we're being frank, I thought the concept sucked.  I've all but lost interest in CS and haven't played at all for the last month.  When I was playing, the server would always seem to empty after 10 mins of play because everyone went off to play ED or CB.

Make of it what you will, but it wasn't like this before the squads were introduced...

QuoteAs we're being frank, I thought the concept sucked.

Fair enough. No suggestions on how it could be improved though I see.

QuoteI've all but lost interest in CS and haven't played at all for the last month.

Are you saying this is a direct result of the squad concept?

QuoteWhen I was playing, the server would always seem to empty after 10 mins of play because everyone went off to play ED or CB.

Not quite correct. The server would empty because everyone went off to IRC to see if they were picked for the match. This problem was identified and rectified by TeaLeaf one month ago.

See: http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=863 (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=863)

QuoteMake of it what you will, but it wasn't like this before the squads were introduced...

Yes it was. See my answer above.

Fair enough.  You asked for comments, remember.   I'd already had enough of playing clans who outclassed us either due to being several orders of magnitude better, or by using questionable methods.  At that point I wasn't particularly looking forward to being shunted off into the "also-rans" squad and sent off for more butt-raping.

I played (I think) one squad match through being unlucky enough to be around when the team were a man short and guess what?  Another butt-rape - what a surprise.  That was enough for me at that point.

So in answer to your question, yes it was due to the squad system that I stopped playing.  Whether or not you think my reasons are valid is immaterial, this is feedback.  And no, I don't have any better suggestions at the moment, but hey, feel free to have another pop at me for not liking the system...

I think b4 we can make any decisions we need to decide what we want.

Deadmen has always concentrated on being good to play, we have more than 99.9% of other clans in our hardware and excellent forum.

Now if we are moving our goals to being tops in the leagues then the squads is the way to go.... having squads is a sacrifice of that goal.

If thats not the case then why bother with squads?

Am I making sense?

The thing that I have found really useful is that it has made looking at the availability page much easier.  Before the squad system, we had got to a stage where we had twenty people up for a 5 v 5 match and they were all in IRC not on MH - and worse still you had no idea whihc of the 20 people would be picked for the match.

We solved the 20 people in IRC with a simple change, but you can still look at availability and find a whole bunch of people there.  Take the matchh due on Sunday - we currently have 10 people listed as available (one of our less popular matches then!), but I can see at a glance that I will probably not be needed because there are already 6 Ghosts listed as available for a 5 v 5 match.  In this respect the system works really well, because it makes knowing whether or not you're likely to play a hell of a lot easier.  

So my personal preference would be to continue with a system that allows me to know that, for example, on a Thursday I will probably have a match to play in (cos I'm a Zombie - no jokes please  :wink: ).  I also know that I am unlikely to be needed on other nights, the pressure is off.  That bit, I like a lot.

As for playing with the same people, the positives are that you DO learn to play a match better as a team because you know the people you are playing with.  I can't speak for Ghosts, but I know that every Zombie would agree with that point.  But if we continued the system then I think that ti would be nice to refresh/review/rotate the players a bit to avoid it becoming stale and to give others a chance in other squads/different match days.

Just my 3 cents (it's inflation you know)

TL.  8)

Quote... why bother with squads?

The squad experiment was set up in an attempt (possibly futile) to please all of the people all of the time.

dMw have never recruited on ability. I sincerely hope this continues. The vast majority of the clans we play do recruit on ability. Bastards. So we get raped. And we will continue to get raped because of this one fact alone.

Our selection policy was based upon rotation and skill. But when some members started to say "How the hell are we expected to win a match when xxxxxx is picked and xxxxxx isn't." was when I looked for a way to for the clan to be competitive where it needed to be. By this I mean the Tournaments and Cup competitions. I don't think anyone would have disagreed if the selection policy for these type of matches was based on skill alone. But who were these dMw frag monkees and how would they play as a team? Hence the squad experiment. It was never an attempt to become a 'win-at-all-costs' clan. With our recruitment policy how could it be? We are a PCS clan that plays non-PCS matches for fun and as such PCS should always come first.

I'll put my cards on the table and say straight off that I'm not entirely convinced that it's been a successful experiment. My main concern is that there has been a divisive element to it. This was my biggest fear when the experiment was first announced. Already in this topic the Ghosts have been referred to as 'also rans'. I must confess that's not how I see them. Instead I see some very skilled players many of whom were extremely unlucky not to be elected to the Zombie squad.

QuoteDeadmen has always concentrated on being good to play, we have more than 99.9% of other clans in our hardware and excellent forum.

Indisputable. We have a reputation for being lame-free and have the facilities that are the envy of most clans and I thank everyone's efforts in achieving that position.

QuoteSo in answer to your question, yes it was due to the squad system that I stopped playing. Whether or not you think my reasons are valid is immaterial, this is feedback.

I think you had a valid reason for not wanting to play in matches. What I don't understand is why the squad system stopped you playing PCS.

I truly believe that eventually all of us get disillusioned with CS. I like to think of it as peaks and troughs. If I feel pissed off I simply tell myself that I'm in a trough and a peak will be along real soon. I for one am hoping that 1.6 will rekindle some of the excitement that's missing from my own game at the moment.

Quotefeel free to have another pop at me for not liking the system...

Why thank you!

[size=24]POP

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

TL.  8)

Personaly The squad system is working for me. I don't know about our wins, but i've enjoyed it more.

Doggers:
tbh after admitting to having only played one match, you never really gave the squad system a fair go and so can't particularly comment. I didn't like it to start with, but its grown on me.

TeaLeaf:  :lol:

<2p worth>

I didn't like it for the reasons that I listed in a (much) earlier topic. My concerns were, and still are, that it might cause a division between the members of dMw. Please note that I am not accusing anyone of being divisive nor that anyone is purposely acting like this. It is just an inevitable outcome of a two tier situation.

Oldie, I do not believie that the experiment was a waste of time. If we were to have decided not to do this without trying it then it would hve been equally unacceptable (if we were never to try anything new then I would never have tried PCS). We had an experiment, we have seen the result, we are drawing conclusions. Seems like we have given things a fair try.

Anyway, irrespective of the outome of the discussion I will back it as it will be a majority decoision. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that this will all boil down to one thing:

Do we want to be extremely competitive or do we want to be the "nice guys of PCS".

I would prefer to concentrate on PCS but still have the odd game (shutup Squonk I know that most of my games are odd) but, as I say, whatever dMw vote I will go along with and support. I just think that we are stronger as a team whne we are all pulling together and not in two directions.



PS all spelling mistakes are my own and are solely due to Millers :)

QuoteI think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that this will all boil down to one thing:

Do we want to be extremely competitive or do we want to be the "nice guys of PCS".

IMHO here's a correction:

The squad system, as I tried to intimate in my earlier post in this thread, does not have to boil down to a 'competitive squad' and another squad.  For example, I have found it much more helpful in figuring out whether or not I'm likely to get a match 'tonight'.

It does not have to be an elite squad, in that respect it is only as elite as the reverence you give to it.  Give it none and it will not be elite.  As an alternative I suggested that we could rotate players between the squads to keep this advantage.

Another benefit that has nothing to do with a two tier system is that the squads (both Ghosts and Zombies) have started to play better together as a team.  Over the period of the squad experiment I have seen both squads improve because you get to play with the same group of people in a match situation on a regular basis.

Also, remember the SL advantages.  It has enabled Oldie to share out some of the repsonsibility for war arranging, server admin responsibiltiies, team picking, chasing people up, checking they get to the match server OK, getting replacements when someone fails to show, etc, and all up to 4 nights every week.  It is a HUGE task to do that for a 25 person clan and takes up more hours than most people would care to play CS during the week.  

So there are advantages and disadvantages to the two squad system.  But it is NOT a black and white decision.  

Look at the benefits of the system and decide which elements you want to keep - I think there are at least three benefits listed above that I think are worth keeping.

There is one disadvantage that I think might be worth eliminating.

If you pick and choose the bits you like, you end up with a customised system that works and is designed to meet our needs - if something in the current system does not work then point it out (as peeps above have been doing) but also, suggest a better way of doing it - otherwise we never move forward.

You may not want to keep the system the way it currently is, but do you want to return to the recent days in October/November when you could have up to 20 people available on the webbie and no clue as to whether or not you are likely to be playing?  That in itself puts huge pressure on people like Oldie.  Is there a better way of doing it?

TL.  8)

Quote

The squad system, as I tried to intimate in my earlier post in this thread, does not have to boil down to a 'competitive squad' and another squad. For example, I have found it much more helpful in figuring out whether or not I'm likely to get a match 'tonight'.
TL. 8)

This i also like.... makes it so easy just to take a look on the avil page and if its a ghost match and theres only 5 down i know iam gonna play and if its a zombie match and theres 5 of them down i know iam not

QuoteIt does not have to be an elite squad

could we not just split the members down the midlle...have 12 memebers in each?
eg...4 zombies go to ghosts 4 ghosts to zombies (this spliting what we regard as the better players. then split the rest between the two? this giving two squads of 12and 12? useing pulling names out of the hat trick :)
but keeping oldie and sheep as the war daddies for ech squad

Quote

QuoteIt does not have to be an elite squad

could we not just split the members down the midlle...have 12 memebers in each?
eg...4 zombies go to ghosts 4 ghosts to zombies (this spliting what we regard as the better players. then split the rest between the two? this giving two squads of 12and 12? useing pulling names out of the hat trick :)
but keeping oldie and sheep as the war daddies for ech squad[/b]

I personally did not like the split of the better players all on one team..(extreme suggestion) but can we not have 3 maybe 4 teams all with equal levels of skill in each not one elite but 3 or 4 good teams then these people can get used to each others style and have it in the same context ie:- Zombies on thurs ..Ghosts on mondays ..Ghouls on sundays ..Smites Bitches on wednesdays and if a side does not have enough players then other people can make themselves available.
I realise that this idea is another huge step but it is only an idea so please dont shoot me down in flames coz im a sensitive soul (Squirrel SSSSssssh)

I think the problem came when people got it into there heads that they were not in the Zombies therefore were not "Elite" which is bollox coz there isnt any bad players in dMw.

Quote

QuoteI think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that this will all boil down to one thing:

Do we want to be extremely competitive or do we want to be the "nice guys of PCS".

IMHO here's a correction:

The squad system, as I tried to intimate in my earlier post in this thread, does not have to boil down to a 'competitive squad' and another squad.  For example, I have found it much more helpful in figuring out whether or not I'm likely to get a match 'tonight'.
[/b]

This is the best feature of the entire system I would say. Knowing if you are going to play or not. It is easy now to see also if you are needed as the extra guy in a ghost match. This makes planning easier for SLs, ghosts and zombies I think. It has for me at least. I know that when I joined back in october my first question was who gets picked for matches and how? We had 20+ players for some matches back then.

Quote
It does not have to be an elite squad, in that respect it is only as elite as the reverence you give to it. Give it none and it will not be elite. As an alternative I suggested that we could rotate players between the squads to keep this advantage.

I agree with both of you here. The zombies were picked for more competitative games as I understand it. We wanted wins.
The separation of our clan in zombies and ghosts lead to some alienation and resentment. Not gettin picked for something or getting picked last isn't fun at all. This alienation within the clan is not good at all and we need to figure out some way of keeping the squad system and not leaving anybody outside. I like the squads mainly because the above statement. You know when you will play. So how shall we solve this? Suggestions (not placed in any order) and also to have 3 squads (25/3=8 ) :

1. Squads based on match days. We all have different schedules and some days are suited better than others. Clan Base on Thursdays and Enemy Down on Wednesdays and Sundays. Problem though if everybody are available on a Sunday. I don't want to be the SL to pick the team then.

2. We appoint three new SLs every month and the previous months SLs will act as deputies. This way we will all learn to be SLs. Squads could be based on attendence to our server for example. We still need a fixed bunch of people in each squad that month. Then we use a rotating match schedule so that first squad plays the first match (independently if it is ED or CB) second squad second match ... first squad fourth match etc.

3. Then we have the issue of wanting to play in ED or CB matches. Some people maybe don't want to play CB and get raped week after week? This could also be a selection method in some way.

4. Depending on map. We usually play on only 3 or 4 maps. We could maybe create an Aztec squad, Inferno squad etc.

5. Kind of the same as 4. but depending on weapons skill. Sniping Vs. close combat. Aztec vs. office/prodigy kind of maps. We create balanced weapons squad. E.g. I don't regularly snipe I am more of a colt/aug/p90 kind of player and therefore I am placed in a position on map that requires that kind of player type, say bridgeroom on aztec.

6. If we are not having squads maybe some one of our programmers could do a selection-program that based on availability and played matches picks the team. Database programmers take one step forward. :D

You can surely mix some of these up and get more possibilities. Just remember that there are possibilites.

Quote
Another benefit that has nothing to do with a two tier system is that the squads (both Ghosts and Zombies) have started to play better together as a team. Over the period of the squad experiment I have seen both squads improve because you get to play with the same group of people in a match situation on a regular basis.

Yes I we all have seen this and I also think that we as a clan have raised our level of play. I have played many matches the last 2 months in both zombie and ghost matches. We have won matches against better opponents by just sticking to tactics and playing as a team. Both zombies and ghosts have improved a lot. Tacticswise all players have become better. This is obvious when playing on MH. It is much higher level of play now I think.

Quote
Also, remember the SL advantages....

I agree fully. The SLs have improved much and are more experienced. We need to train more SLs. I think this is good for our clan. OB and Sheepy for example have become more confident leaders and this have shown in their own play aswell.

We need to know if people are available or not. Independently on what system we decide to use. Sign up if you are available or not. It is only one minute of your time.

most of my points are going over what has already been said. but i'm saying them any way :)  one of the biggest plus's is that when you put your name down you know that you stand a good chance of playing.

Most of the time I would be playing CS when a match was due anyway but before the squad system there was nothing more irritating than busting a gut to get in only to find 20 other people on irc and not getting a game :(. so making the squads 12 aside would be a small step backward, in not knowing if you would play or not.

As for a random reshuffle of the zombies & ghosts I can't see that this  will help. firstly can I say that the way the teams were picked was not perfect and will seem very unfair to some players that are easily good enough to make the first team but it had to start somewhere.

Due to the fact our so called best players are W4-D1-L4 on clanbase at the moment proves that we can not rest on our laurels. but there should be a way to move players from one team to another. this will only make the team stronger in encouraging players to improve themselves and that can't be a bad thing.

as for squads splitting the clan. when I play a match on Thursdays I'm playing for DMW. I don't even think zombie/ghost. but I do like to win and going back to the old system will only bring back the days on losing ever game 23-1, which I don't find fun :cry:  and as I recall we always went in to games expecting to lose. now I feel we expect to win  :)

I ain't been here that long but hey ho. I put my availability down for whatever match and that's it. I haven't registered the difference between zombies and ghosts, I just play as a nd when.

I think the best point made above, and I can't be arsed to go and quote it it :wink: , was about whether you wanna be nice or you wanna win.

I've played a couple of matches, got raped in one and did alright in the other. The one that was close was enjoyable, but no-one likes getting raped. I'm simply not good enough to play against top-nut sides at the moment and TBH I would play if asked, but I glean no enjoyment from headhot after headshot. I think that makes sense.

So, I suppose I'm saying keep the squads, the better players, play the more 'serious' squads, and dopey buggers like me who play for fun do just that.

In the eyes of fairness I think smite had the best idea, form 3 squads with a nice spread of skills.... most people like the current two squads cos they get better chance of playing games, well at least zombies do.... strange, I'm still to see a ghost who loves the idea.

3 squads would mean we could easily play 3 matches per week.... plus it means there would be plenty of peeps around to play on MH even when a match is on baldric.

and in continuation of my last post.....

the three squads would simply represent a preference for that squads players to play on that squads match night...  then other squad players could fill and left over spaces.

I'd rather drop the elitism alltogether cos it sucks big time.... its nothing new, every clan on the planet is struggling for that... and for most I'm sad to say it even leads to cheating.

not sure if we have enough players who want to play matches to field 3 teams. and on the plus side of elitism is so it should make it easier to find sides equal in abilty, hopfully cut down on the beatings we get.

i am undeceided on the ghosts and zombies thang. it is fair to say that zombies are doing well on CB and Ghosts have improved well after a dodgy start on ED over a short space of time. but it seems like although the ghosts enjoy far superior numbers of players the attendances for some of the matches has been awful esp when you think there are 8 zom's and 17 ghosts yet i've been in a ghost match that needed 3 zombies to make up the numbers!!! i dont know if this is lack of interest due to the squad system in place (don't forget we had to start somewhere) or alot of people bin washin their hair alot !!!. so after searching my feelings and consulting zen i am also thinking along the lines of stryker and smitey, 3 squads of mixed ability, 3 different match nights, replacements sign up on availability pages as backup if needed. we have 2 SL's and 2 deputys already so we would only need to recruit 2 more people into the SL deputy roles and voila we are ready to rock and roll.

its weird but when playing dMw games the winning and losing is not important to me, what is and has been for the last year and a half is the crack. when we were going down 23-1 week after week it didnt matter every now and again we would say "they had to be using aimbots etc" or "we really need to practice" but it was only every now and again, the rest of the time we played our game, had a laugh then went back to playing PCS on meathook and every1 felt much better cos PCS is our game not uber L337 fragmonkeying (exception made for you frenzy cos u rule). what i miss the most after all the ghost/zombies thang is playin CS with the people that i played with week in week out for a good year b4 we exploded into a big clan with loads of people oldie,smite,tl,frenzy,stryker(oh those classic tk's) and last but not least the man who makes this whole thing possible Doggers. but blasts from the past aside what TL says about reliving the pressure on oldie is fair and good because  its a time consuming thing arranging matches, chasing people up , admining matches etc and i think this is one possible way of taking a bit more hassle off the old fella, while setting up 3  close knit, varied, interchangeable squads that at least have a fighting chance of getting a result and as a famous man once said "why the TANGO should the A team get the best players"(ok that was me as captain of the school football B team!!) skill and experience are things that should be shared and i think having 2-3 of the better players in each team is not diluting our best team but strengthening the other 2 teams and as has been said b4 we are still all dMw. we have 25 regulars playin for us, so getting 3 teams of 5-6 players who will play one night a week cant be impossible and if it is then why did ya join !! any1 can sign up and play on MeatHook but only a few are invited into the clan and we would all do well to remember that !. here endith my 2p's worth.

QuoteI
 and dopey buggers like me who play for fun do just that.

i think that we all fall under that catagory m8ty.

on a selfish note i have really enjoyed being a SL and i have found that it has improved my play ALOT, i have felt i have done a good job and i hope that i have lived up to all expectations.

3 squads may be a good idea, it may not, as it may end up being an idea to find a new organisation to start the 3rd squad up in. OR we could have 2 squads in serious competitions/ ladders [eg keep ghosts and zombies just have a reshuffle with 12 or so players in each] and keep ED on the sundays and wednesdays so that we can all play together in one competition as -=[dMw]=- in a whole and not as either denomination of squad.

Anyone else care to make a comment?

I was hoping for the views of a few more members than this so c'mon ppl.

One more thing and i'll shut up :oops:
should we not see if we have enough people that want to commit to play matches every week.

maybe a list is in order :)

There is a list.



    If you have -=[dMw]=- at the start of your name you are on it :-)

i luv u oldie
if proof is needed i went round his house last night and cut him in half and it said -=[dMw]=- on his bloody upper torso not -=[dMw]=-Oldbloke
just -=[dMw]=- (not sure about the legs rude to stare and all that)
nuff said
respect and applause is due
thanx for everything dude, u rule and long may u do so !!!!
now do like he said all you apothetic mofo's and make opinions known or forever hold your pieces.
if no more comments are received fatbob will visit you and sit on your face's and nobody want's that....do they?
smitey and jas u r banned from replying cos i know you bitches like that  8O

...some one breathalisze that fatbob!

 :wink:

done that.

Pissed as a fart M8

Having regularly been called a member in the past I'll comment :-)

I thought Smites and FBs comments about multi teams was good and also agree that it is not fair for Oldie to run everything. Why don't we change things and get Sheepy to run everything? LOL

Seriously, Sheepy has done a good job - I don't have time or inclination to take on an SL role so "hats off" to those who put in the effort for the rest of us and thank you. I suppose it is easy to forget that a lot goes on behind the scenes and that SL is hard work - I did it once by accident and I was knackered after the match!

I think it boils down to the fact that a lot of us seem to want to spend time playing with the really good players (that is a good way to improve). I have improved a lot, from crap to bloody awful, so there is lots of scope for me remaining. To be honest I'm not sure what the right answer is just now. I imagine that we will end up in the "can't please everybody" regime which is understandable.

I was a bit frightened by sheepy's comment regarding a new organisation running a 3rd team or did I misunderstand and he meant that we would need another SL rather than another clan ;-)

if they did it would explode'
i've been sorting u lot out a deal so good it's criminal and had to spend several hours in the company of the luverly claire and her magic barrell of bud ha-ha
but i really really luv u all

ur my best m8s

officer what do u mean i have to go quietly

dancing naked in the streets is considered common courtesy in march

i'll get me coat

what do you mean stripsearch

 8O

ohhh not so bad!!

to clarify what i ment is that i think we should have 2 even ability teams that play in competitions and they have a SL each, and to have a SL designated to run ED [thats 3sl's 2 squads] the 3rd SL would arrange ED games on the to days as they are now and ANY dmw member who wants to play will b given a game, this will b strictly rotation, those that havnt pld much will be ranked as the most likley to qualify for the game, to the exception of 1 admin if its on our server.

My observations on this topic are:

1) Althought we have had more success in the Zombie Squad, it is definately down to playing in CB. My experience of playing EB matches was we got completely whipped every time. (As Doggers pointed, perhaps through the enemy adopting questionable means).

Suggestion: Both Squads play in CB for a bit just to test that theory. I think the Ghosts would find the play more enjoyable.

2) I miss playing with the other guys  :cry:  so would not have any issues with making us al lone big happy family again (emotional blackmail there)

Summary: I think Ghosts would enjoy a better match up with clans on CB, and both squads would be able to demonstrate how similarly skilled they are. There is no way to compare because they play in different ladders and EB "questionable". OMG, without a single swear word about ED (spit).

we could always enter a second clan in CB under slightly diffrent name, eg:

-=[dMw]=-sheepy[G]

-=[dMwg]=-sheepy

-=[dGw]=-sheepy
i personally like ED, we are gettin much better matches now.

This is my dMw clan of WHATEVER!!!!!!

guy comes up to me and says you a ghost or a zombie .....ah WHATEVER
(guitar rock tune) dah da da dah da da da da da da
playin on the hook and stryker shoots me in the back ..... ah WHATEVER
(guitar rock tune) dah da da dah da da da da da da
sheepeh says down the ramp on de nuke ..... i say..... WHATEVER
(guitar rock tune) dah da da dah da da da da da da
you want to make three squads instead of two  ... WHATEVER

cause this is my dMw clan of WHATEVER

mates and matesses(squirrel,FB and smiteness) i am enjoying playing with the ghosters and sheepeh and the Fat one leading us to almost some epic victories. We fair reasonably well but the most important part for me is that we have great fun, but we lack having a consistent side week in and week out because of the numbers of ghosties we have and the zombies wanting to play in our games as well, so we can't build up the relationships(keep ya pants on squirrel boy)and  understanding that a squad of 6 and 7 can for good battles . So maybe another squad will remedy that . I  can and will not make judgements on if the experience is working or not as I will go with the flow on anything that the Clan leaders want to do and try, without them we will turn into just another pubic bonehead server with no respect for other players and PCS.

Quote We fair reasonably well but the most important part for me is that we have great fun, but we lack having a consistent side week in and week out because of the numbers of ghosties we have and the zombies wanting to play in our games as well, so we can't build up the relationships(keep ya pants on squirrel boy)and understanding that a squad of 6 and 7 can for good battles.

Zombies have actually just filled the empty spots in ghost matches. There have never been an instance where a ghost have had to give up a spot in a ghost match to a zombie.

I have played in few ghost matches but only to fill the empty spot. By doing this I have learned to play under different command and with different players. I see no problem in that.

If there had been more interest to use the availability in general (for both Z and G matches) we wouldn't have that "problem". If we look at the availability on average one would think that dMw were 8-15 players ... of which 4-9 can play the match in question. We need to improve on this independent on which type of structure we choose to use.

there is a hard kore of about 10sad cases [me included] who are usually around at match time the rest of the players just float in and out whenever they feallike it

Then sheepy we should go back to the old way and just choose a team on the night for all matches ED and CB?

but then we go back to the old days with the server empty and the IRC full :( 3 or 4 nights a week :(

Its about the only time we get to talk to each as a whole and then the non playees get back on the hook...

Whilst that system worked when we were a smaller Clan, it no longer works.  When we monitored what was happening we found that MH would house a good game right up until the point that we all departed to IRC.  After 10 minutes or so the regulars who were left (usually only 3 or 4) got bored and left.  5 minutes after that, the dMw peeps not selected returned.  As there were only 4 or 5 returning to the server they left too!  That was the problem.  That's why the new system is we all stay in the server until called to IRC.

As far as squads go, the real positive of the squads is that we know with much certainty that we are going to get a match on a particular night.

The down side is the division that has been felt.  Maybe what we should do is create some mixed squads instead?  We could rotatet the night each squad plays according to whatever is posted up on availability - that way we don't get stuck on one night a week.

I volunteer to switch to Ghosts if that helps........if they'll have me...

TL.  8)

i think that we should have squads for match selection ease.
but these squads should b of mixed ability and should b shuffled every month or so

fair comment TL, sheepys comment is good, one squad rotated fairly and of mixed ability, it just helps morale when you have a good shooter helping out on a rough night! Makes you feel better when his TANGO gets nailed as well.

I feel a logistical nightmare induced headache coming on ...

QuoteI feel a logistical nightmare induced headache coming on ...

Me signs up for one match a month to know when to play. ;)

what if we get rid of the squads and keep CB on Thursdays and ED on Sundays and Wednesdays but play the best available players on CB and play ALL dmw in rotation for ED. and the we can keep the same SL.

Then we have no split, we all can play together as before, but on Thursdays play the best we have. This will help encourage improvement in all our games.

Does it matter who is in which squad or even that we have squads :?:  If we had more than 1 SL (say 2 or 3 to spread the organisational load) then that will split the workload and help out Oldie and Sheepy. The rest of us should make better use of the excellent availability tool to say whether we are available for a dMw match (NB dMw not Ghosts or Zombies) on a particular night.

Day of match we all meet on MH and the team is picked by the relevant SL from those avail. If we have two matches they tend to be at different times so we play two teams that night.

It does away with the squad idea I agree but it achieves some of the other aims. Does it give us the strongest team possible? Probably not at the moment but maybe occasionally it will. However, IMHO, I believe that as the teams play more then we will learn more. I believe that you can learn more playing with different people and seeing different tactics than you will playing with the same guys all the time. Maybe the learning might not be as fast but the fact that we had 2 dMw matches on a particular night rather than a Ghost match and a Zombi match may just be whats needed to remove the perception of divisiveness.

This should, given time, make all of the dMw peeps better players and up morale and improve, even further, the sense of identity.

I am proud to be a member of dMw and I love you guys (sniff)  :cry: .

My 2p

QuoteI was hoping for the views of a few more members than this so c'mon ppl.

Due to strange way the forum hides unread posts occasionally i've only just found this thread. But i'll bore you with all my thoughts so far soon.  :)

I have posted no thoughts as because of my unfortunate computer problems i havnt really experienced anything much of the squad system.
But you will be *pleased to know, *sad to know (*delete as appropriate) that the replacing of motherboard and processor with Gandys old rejects seems to have sorted the problem, so i will be taking a more active role in killing my team mates.  

So from no experience of the experiment at all i suggest three spread skill teams is good, though Sundays is the only day i am almost certainly available for a match so rotating the days for each team to play may be awkward for me. But dont listen to me.  What you dont already? Charming... :x

Quotei think that we should have squads for match selection ease.
but these squads should b of mixed ability and should b shuffled every month or so

Sounds better but it would be sensible to let the squads run for a couple of months to cut down on admin.

Secondly, back to the CB/ ED argument I have been working on. The only factor other than squad creation, that changed in terms of match play last year was Zombies playing on CB. We were all getting regularly beaten on ED up until that point. Looking at the Ghost match reports I find it difficult to spot one without rape mentioned somewhere. I personally would be considering giving up playing matches if I had to play on ED each week.

If we can't put 2 teams into CB, swap things around, Zombies play ED and Ghosts play CB to see if my arguement holds water. I think we'll find fielding our supposed best team against EB opposition will make very little if any difference.

So what is the decision on this squad thing?

If everyone's had their say then the admins will review the comments posted here.

A set of proposals will be voted for.

WOW, only just seen this. ok, my opinion. hummmm.

basically there needs to be some devision of the members that make up dmw, this seems to be a good solution to helping CLs choose a team and satisfy everyones first to kill other clans.

So far the disputes come down to, spliting the groups causes, a social split in the team (rubbish), to much of a skill set split (well the team grouping could be based on something other than skills) and oh, its late and i cant remember the other reasons. obviously not important ;-P

Still some consensus seems to be that the zombie/ghost teams have improved our results and overal game expectation moral so i say thats a very good thing.

One suggestion could be that we join another ladder? if there is one. such that we could have 3 teams. maybe a ghost, zombie and combo whoever wants to play with there mates anytime anywhere.

all in all ive much enjoyed playing clan matchs and who or what team im in doesn't really matter. i'll leave the team selection process up to you guys, but lets not completely base team selection based on skill, cos in the long run its about the fun element. I for one would prefere to loose if it means playing with different people from dmw rather than a permenant team.  Then again i guess we get a lot of team play everynight so.... i'll stop bloody librian balancing act.

Is it me, or did you just go through a time warp?  The current system is the one that attempts to solve the problems that the old system caused and you just posted about.   :?

probably, i was just confirming i aggreed with the current system. I wasn't really with it i guess. jet lag.

ignore him, hes stupid  :splat: