+skill items for rogues

[JanuZ]

Taken from this thread
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6457&p=1


 +skill above 310 does not provide any bonuses due to glancing mitigation correct? Only the .04 crit/-dodge/-parry/-block?
 
Assuming +1 skill above the skill cap provides us:
.04% crit
.16% hit (+.2 hit, -.2 dodge/block/parry)
no bonus due to glancing
Which translates into .04 + .16/2 = .12% crit
 
Using Kalman's values of
1% crit = 2% hit = 28 AP = 14.28 Agi = 1.38 skill (below skill cap)
This would yield:
1% crit = 2% hit = 28 AP = 14.28 Agi = 1.38 skill (below skill cap) = 8.33 skill (above skill cap)
 
Gloves
Aged Core Leather Gloves (5 skill below cap): 15/28 + 1 + 5/1.38 = 5.16
Aged Core Leather Gloves (4 skill below cap): 15/28 + 1 + 4/1.38 + 1/8.33= 4.55
Aged Core Leather Gloves (above cap): 15/28 + 1 + 5/8.33 = 2.14
Gloves of Enforcement: 20/14.28 + 28/28 + 1/2 = 2.90
Doomhide Gauntlets: 14/14.28 + 42/28 = 2.48
 
Aged Core Leather Gloves (5 skill below cap) gain 2.26 crit and 9 STA over Gloves of Enforcement and 2.68 crit and 1 STA over Doomhide Gauntlets.
 
Helms
Circlet of Restless Dreams (6 skill below cap): 21/14.28 + 5/1.38 + 1/8.33 = 5.98
Circlet of Restless Dreams (5 skill below cap): 21/14.28 + 5/1.38 + 1/8.33 = 5.21
Circlet of Restless Dreams (above cap): 21/14.28 + 6/8.33 = 2.19
Deathdealer's Helm: 29/14.28 + 25/28 + 1 + 1/2 = 4.42
Bloodfang Hood: 27/14.28 + 19/28 + 1 = 3.57
 
Circlet of Restless Dreams (5 skill below cap) gains .79 crit and 11 STA over Deathdealer's and a 1.64 crit and 13 STA over Bloodfang.
 
Belts
Mugger's Belt (5 skill below cap): 5/1.38 + 1 = 4.62
Mugger's Belt (above cap): 5/8.33 + 1 = 1.60
Bloodfang Belt: 20/14.28 + 13/28 + 1 = 2.86
 
Mugger's Belt (5 skill below cap) gains 1.75834 crit and 1 STA over Bloodfang.  
 
Bottom line:
PvE dagger rogues should wear Aged Core Leather Gloves and Mugger's Belt (but not Circlet of Restless Dreams unless you dont have both of the other two)
 
I welcome any corrections!
 
edit: What dojke was saying makes sense; I thought it was a bit odd for it to be a cap of 310 if the mobs are level 63. The cap would just be 315 instead of 310 for the level 63's. That of course makes the whole thing more annoying, because to minmax, I will be swapping out ACL/muggers with other gear based on the mob level I am fighting.    As if my bags weren't cluttered enough already.

[Bastet]

There will be a +3/+5 skill talent in after the redo :biggrin:
 
I think i still keep my set intact though, kinda fancy it and it was hard enough to get complete :tongue:

[Padding]

Im recommend Drazila for the Mathematican Nobel Award. Its really deserved, allthough i must admit i felt a bit like John Nash wife in a Beautiful Mind after he went nutter

[Bastet]

After looking at this for a while, i think humans get an unfair advantage if thier sword / mace w/ the +5 skill from talent, and +5 racial. :blink:
 
Anyhow, any1 have some specific dmg output stats on just how much more dmg one would make w/ +5 skill more? I mean, if its just 1, or 2% crit then i think i wont bother too much, since on my main attack i allready have 65 or so % crit

[Neff]

Isnt it because of the +hit, you miss less? (obvious , i know :b) That way you will get more Backstabs/ambushes etc. on bosses because your +skill is so high that f.ex a lvl 63 elite's miss ratio wont "bother" you?

[JanuZ]

For actual numbers i have none but the calculation is that glancing blows does about 70% damage with 300 weapon skill against a lvl63 mob. With 310 in weapon skill those glancing blows do 100% damage.

What i have read is that with 310 in weapon skill you will increase your white damage with 12% and since white damage is 50% of a standard rogues damage in a raid it is an increase of 6% total DPS.
Now if we take a full buffed rogue ready for Patchwerk(fight that requires about 10k Raid DPS(usually top rogue is between 6-700DPS) if we say that rogue has 600DPS but no +weapon skill that would make his DPS jump up to 636.
Now a more realistic look for our rogues is around 350DPS i think with only standard raid buffs(no pots) that would result in a 21DPS increase or 371DPS. Now you might loose some 3-4DPS because of stats lost but the increase is huge and only gets bigger with each new item you get.

The thing is that the +5skill gives you only 0.20% crit 0.80% hit when not factoring glancing blows(PvP and if you are going form 310-315 in weapon skill) that is why there is so huge diffrence between the below cap and above cap in those calculations.

I also want to point out the edit part of that post i quoted. It mentioned Dojke, that would be the hunter from Anything and if you look through the post you will see Mottle posting in it. There is a reason why the only epic item that automaticly goes to Anything in there open MC runs is the Aged core leather gloves.

About the human advantage, there is a reason why most of the people in that post are talking about how they wish they had rolled human instead of the other races.

[Bastet]

In naxx a very nice mace drops, the misplaced servo arm, with human you can get the +10 you need w/ racial / talent. which is a huge advantage over other races indeed.

[Neff]

True , same with Orc warriors, pop some cooldowns, maybe even that CC exalted trinket (280 AP for 20 secs or so) and racial. you'd be closing in on 3k ap, without full AQ/Naxx gear :blink:

[Adularena]

Using Kalman's values of
1% crit = 2% hit = 28 AP = 14.28 Agi = 1.38 skill (below skill cap)
This would yield:
1% crit = 2% hit = 28 AP = 14.28 Agi = 1.38 skill (below skill cap) = 8.33 skill (above skill cap)
 
A great post, I like these calculations, but I havent thought about any conserning skill caps.
 
What I was wondering: isnt 1%crit=about 30 Agi?
 
Please explain, anyone, if I`m mistaken so I can check my character, ty.

[Bastet]

14 agi gives crit and ap, and thus just as many dps as 28 ap or 1% crit.

[JanuZ]

you need 29Agi to get 1%critical but 29Agi doesn't just give crit, it also gives 2%dodge and 29AP. Therefor 29Agi is alot better then 1%crit but if you say 14Agi you only get 0.5%crit and 14AP and that is about 1%crit or 28AP in total.

Now that is a so called AEP values for the item modifiers, it only gives a rough calculation. If you want to get a complete calculations i would recommend this mod http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-3031-1-theorycraft.html

As you can see in this screenshot it gives accurate number for how much more damage/AP 10 more agility would equal for the warrior. You can get the same for 10 more STR, 1% more crit and hit and some other moddifiers.

[Adularena]

Ok, now I understand his values. It wasnt how the different values was modified when changing the variable which I thought was Agility.
 
It was his standardisation of all of those terms in order to be able to calculate skill level increases. Though I`d do it the other way and made the variables (agi, crit, ap etc) whan the Skill was 1.
 
Ty for the great post