Mains and alts

[burmyhermy]

Last nights raid came a problem with healers for us since we had one on and even though jims pally is now holy we asked him but he didnt wanna go on him he wanted to go on his shadow priest so after a lot of discussion about mains and alts in officers channel i whispered jim asking him if he would like to make his priest main for raiding and he said he yes he might aswell so i altered his characters to the right ranks , now to the harder bit of things with people bringing alot more alts up to 80 and us having cleared naxx 10 a few times people arent gonna want to keep running there mains through due to not requiring gear which wud be ok except we still need to gear those peeps up who havent been as many times especially if we wanna clear 25 man, and i think that it is gonna mess us up in the long run getting the groups right for the raid so we need to have a think about it and fast so what do u all reckon we need to do ?

[sheepy]

there are no people to my knowledge who wouldnt run a main thru an instance to help people out even when they dont need gear.

but for balance wise it is a tough one - and im not really one to comment as i took my DK in on the friday night Naxx run - but did swap over to my shammy when things got hairy!

hopefully we will be running naxx 10 less and less as an official guild run and getting more people on board - jim changing mains does help - we still need a couple of healers and 5-6 dps regulars tho. - also another "off tank" like necro would be more than usefull for the occasions when we are short of tanks - as currently running 3 +1 OT is kinda minimum

[TeaLeaf]

The decision I think is relatively simple.  Drop Naxx10 as an official guild run and go to 25.  Mains go to 25.  Anyone can go to a 10.  The problem then is filling your boots with people - and this is where I come back to pimping the pimping:  

You need to get more proactive with publicity and recruitment.  It will not happen on its own.  Either appoint a rota or a person to do it every day, but you need to be bumping the recruitment threads on the forums listed in the FYI topic at least once per day.  You need to be pushing members to find people - they PUG, they will see people who are worth a trial.  Get them feeling responsible for getting people.  I cannot do this for you but i have tried to remind you regularly.

You're currently in the mid-ground again.  This is where you need the effort to push through into full-time 25 man, then the 10 mans become a joke alt run. You need to get beyond where you are now or fall back to 10 man.

TL.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

I think back to alts in kara .... we would clear with mains in 2 hours or have an alt night and spend the evening wiping

I can understand people getting fed up with only playing 1 class and they should be allowed to swap a toon to a main but with some kind of limit as to how often this can be done 6 months for example

For balance reasons we may ask a person to use an alt on the understanding that they get last dibbs on loot.  

As for Jim I can also think back to how many of his toons we geared up before he decided to move guild which got a few peoples backs up

TL's point is spot on if we push the recruitment and get the players in we will not stagnate and alts will be less of an issue

[Azunai]

I kinda agree with TL here.

We seem to be in that zone inbetween 10 and 25 man. As it is now, people get saved on 10mans on an offday raid like friday's, meaning we can't even do a 10man if a 25man fails. No problem with that situation, it just means we need more people. So I think a strong recruitment drive is in order indeed. Haven't seen the other boards but regarding aszune.xsa.ch I think we could elaborate more on not just our requirements, but what we've accomplished so far, what our raiding times are, how the atmosphere is etc. So we attract more, and hopefully more of the right people too. EDIT: Had a quick look. Seems like a good post but maybe some folding up, so posting "Updated " and "Currently on:" etc. in the OP.

As far as mains/alts go, I already voiced my thoughts last night but for clarity's sake I'll make an overview of them:

First off, the whole main/alt thing can be a very nasty issue if it's not controlled well, at least from my experience, so I'd hold off making any announcements about it at all, until absolutely necessary. So far we've only had Burmy switching and now the Jìm thing. As long as people aren't constantly asking about it, I say keep the whole thing out of people's minds, so as not to bring ideas into their heads. If there's ever a time when this thing becomes pressing, I suggest the following guidelines:

- Our main raids, which used to be 10 man and should now be 25 man raids, should only be accessible for mains.

- Only in case of an emergency (like not having 2 priests for Razuvious) can someone log his alt, and in my opinion only for the situation we need the swap for. For example: only the Razuvious fight if it's about a priest lacking, but a full run if we lack a tank or healer. Loot prio is mains over alts.

- As for switching mains, we can't force people to raid a toon they don't want to, so if they want to switch that's fine in my eyes. But this of course needs to be regulated. First, you can't have someone claim they're switching mains every other week. Last night we discussed something like a cooldown of say, 3 or 4 months, after which someone can, if they want to, switch mains. Second, there's the matter of key positions. A tank or healer switching to a dps class could cripple the raid if a dps doesn't switch to tank or healer as well, for example.

But again, so long as main/alt doesn't become a big issue, let's try and keep it that way from our side.

My 2 cents.

[smite]

The only comment i want to make is about Jim.
As Sheepy said nobody would really complain about taking their main to help people out in an instance.... Last night was blatantly im not taking the pali.
 
We had the same with Firenemesis, The mage he made and now the priest.
 
Is this age related or personality?
 
The whole main alt thing has always annoyed me.
I have plenty of alts and would love for them all to have great gear but i can't and wont mostly for fairness.
I wanted to change the Druid for the DK as the tanking style had changed in WOTLK and i was **** at it. Stuck with it and with better gear and new rotations got it back (sort of)
 
Anway moving on nothing to see here.
/rant over