Molten core "pickup"

Umbra · September 28, 2006, 09:24:20 AM

I think alot of people are missing a point here, the idea of such a raid is not progress, at least, not first and foremost. we will most likely get some bosses down but the reason it was fun is because it was a 'suck it and see' situation.

To the cynics above, I think the majority of people who will go on these do have common sense, since the majority of fools get weeded out relatively quickly, can *anyone* honestly say they would roll on the bindings Gorion needed? I would love TF, but i'd rather he had it now, than I got it in x months time.

by the same token, progress is good, but i'd rather it was run like a guild run to scholo or something, i.e. give different people raid leading practise, no money spent from guild etc. The aim is to see how far we get with what people turn up. *NOT* to arrange a perfectly balanced raid, and exclude people with greens, low fr, and kick too many of one class. dare I say it....those raids already exist.

I know it only went very well becasue alot of RG1 were free, but liek i said, it's missing the point, the aim is use what we have to the best, regardless. if we only get 1 or 2 bosses, then what the hey, the more soldiers and alts in there the more experience and slightly better kit they have. Remember this isn't a replacement for current well organised raids (<3 RLs) but an additional fun thing, thus anything that comes out of it is a benefit.

If it ends up being run by some random person or few people very well, like the 20man raids were ,then all well and good, but it shouldn't be forced into the same mould as normal raids because, well, if that were wanted why not just get another raid day.

normal raids : progress+loot+adrenaline+lubhealers
fun raids : fun+bonus loot+practise at RL/ML for people

saori · September 28, 2006, 09:43:36 AM

Quote from: Threbrilith;152682I was expecting SR leggings :taz:

:narnar:

Well, i was expecting for Felheart Horns, Felherat Shoulderparts and Felheart Robes, and any dropped yesterday!!! Wasnt a very good Warlock loot day!!! ha ha ha!, but i got a nice Azuresong Mageblade with a roll of 99!

Yesterday was a very nica run, with lots of fun. At was so fun because it was a totally unexpected run, unscheduled one and formed only for the sake of guild fun, loot and alts, and so.

For rules we have the schedulled raids days, but this was fun for all because the lack of those rules, the lack of DKP's, the good mood of people in TS, and so!

Great guys! Gratz to all the people who made this posible!

noevra · September 28, 2006, 09:43:59 AM

thats what i wanted to say!

/sign to umbra

Zabard · September 28, 2006, 12:31:44 PM

I can't see why there's any argument about this. Is a raid less fun because we require that they at least have a minimum of fr protection? I can't see how this should change the fun any more than that you have to be level 60. I may be different from you in that I enjoy progress (sorry, I can't see the fun in repeatedly wiping on a boss that we usually wipe the floor with). The wiping-untill-we-can-do-it is something that's "reserved" for the scheduled raid nights, imo. Wiping again and again on the first few trash mobs cause people insist on bringing their 5-minute old level 60's is not what I consider fun. You're talking about how fun it is with the joking on TS etc. but I can't see why this should be any different cause people are required to fill a few basic requirements. And also keep in mind that a lot of the joking and stuff going on in TS is most likely the result of all the RG1 people there. They have another "culture" on TS than RG2 and soldiers. A couple of ZG/AQ runs should tell you this.

Anywho. I have no problem trying it your way, but remember that we wont have as many RG1/2 people to allow the progress done last time.

Umbra · September 28, 2006, 02:09:37 PM

because as soon as there's a requirement for this and that it becomes restrictive, i don't think it will be a case of constantly wiping, since quite alot of the loot in mc GIVES you fr, so they don't expect you to have too much of it to begin with.

if you purely enjoy progress and not just a bit of fun with loot as a possible bonus, that's up to you, but my thoughts are have it so that we have something for everyone. if it's restricted to lvl60, 100fr, no green kit etc etc, then we end up with rg1+rg2 on a typical raid, i keep saying, we HAVE those already. if all you want is another raid that's the same as the current ones, sign up for the poll that says 'i want another raid day'.

If there's gonna be an official alt mc raid then fine, official = organised = expectations, and that's ok too. what i'm saying is that what happened, was pretty much a guild pug like scholo/strat, and that made it a different kind of fun. these thoughts are not mutually exclusive btw, i'm just supporting the possibility of guild mc pugs in future for fun and experience and a bit of loot and the cameraderie, with that in mind any guild pug that gets taken over and rules enforced is one i'll probably leave. I know when a run is for progress and i know when i want one *just* for fun to see if my priest can do it right. for example, theoline was mostly green kit, came along, had fun, was nice to have her in a raid again. by your reckoning she wouldn't have got in, quite alot of people wouldn't, the point isn't can we finish it, the point is, how far can we get with this bunch of ninja's and which random soldiers wil lgo home with a smile and an epic and respect for rg1/2 ppl.

Otherwise it's like waiting for someone to say 'who's up for a loot run of strat scarlet', joining, then saying 'no, he has to leave cos he's got 2 greens, she has to leave cos she hasn't been here before' etc.

on a compromising note, how about if a random RL is chosen for it, and that person chooses their rules, that way I can let anyone in who is attuned and we can have a blast (ppl will learn, and nothing will get de'd), and you can restrict it to essentially rg1/2 , clear the whole instance (coming back with alot of nexus crystals),

edit: I know there won't be as many from rg1/2 if we do it again officially, but what im trying get across is, it doesn't matter, learning and experience and fun are prime, progress and loot will happen but is secondary.

maybe i'm getting all offended when i needn't and maybe it would be good to have something organised, I would jsut hate to tell some soldiers they can;t come when to me, it's more important thye have a go and learn so that if they are called upon to join rg1 / 2 they are not overwhelmed

edit2: oh, btw i've done an mc run with rg2, when the swapping was implemented, the TS was a bit quieter but myself and ragnarh soon loosened you stiff-necks up a bit

TeaLeaf · September 28, 2006, 02:43:20 PM

Quote from: Umbra;152904maybe i'm getting all offended when i needn't

Uhuh. /nods :narnar:

TL.

Zabard · September 28, 2006, 02:58:51 PM

hehe. I see you fight for your right to party, or whatever u wanna call it. I may be a pesimist, but what I feel, is that by letting in anyone who wanna join with no requirement, it first of all will "scare off" the people that would carry it along (a rg1 member getting killed over and over will have a very expensive night so u can test out your "newbie" level 60). Let's compare it with a PuG of level 50s trying to do UBRS, u think they would stand much of a chance? Sorry for being such a kill joy, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

Padding · September 28, 2006, 03:03:36 PM

QuoteLet's compare it with a PuG of level 50s trying to do UBRS, u think they would stand much of a chance? Sorry for being such a kill joy, but I'm just trying to be realistic

Couldnt agree more here really. People think that Molten Core is easy beasy, but thats only with your main char and people who have been there 50+ times.

Thats why i think there should be some basic rules, just so that the party has a real chance of getting the instance pwned within the 1 raiding night (since thats all that possible probably) and the items like legendary drops goes to a person that will really use it. I'd hate to see a legendary go to an alt character.

I would like to think that common sense could be used, but unfortunately we've seen that to many times not be the case

Umbra · September 28, 2006, 03:25:59 PM

I think there are cross purposes here, i'm talking about non-official fun, not the 'possible' official alt-open runs. Additionally I also said these needn't be mutually exclusive. I'm just wary of things that start off fun being taken over by excessive red-tape.

As an analogy, think of you and some mates in a garage building a go kart, not much progress but fun and you get somewhere, then yer dad comes in and says 'right, you have to use these tools, that mate of yours doesn't know much so he has to go home, if you make any money it all comes to me' the kart might get built faster, and you may win the race, but the enjoyment is far less. There is a time and a place for dad to be in charge, but if he turns up and organises everything you do you begin to want him to go back to watching tv

(harry enfield 'noooo, you don't wanna do it like that!')

ofc if there's an official guild-sponsored alt run, i'd like it to be organised along the same lines as a normal raid, but these random off the cuff ones should happen also.

btw i'm happy to give dajo some money as an rg1 main who died lots, don't mind supporting those who pulled more than their share of the weight (23g omg).

ofc if you're trying to avoid the situation of fresh lvl 60s thinking hey, ill go to that and get carried along on a free ride to get epics, then i see your point, granted.

re: loot, why not implement something on the lines of the 20man thing, hydraxian rep, legendary items would be good to go to someone if it finishes the item, but with respect to alts, if no-one has a binding yet and one drops then it shd be equal rolls, maybe use the hydrax rep to counter it as said above, alt and main? bah, i want nice drops to go to someone who really needs it and has worked for it, dont care if its a 'main' or an 'alt'

P.S. all this is just an opinion and verging on the 'devil's advocate' stance, I'll come along on these however they happen ^_^

Zabard · September 28, 2006, 03:52:21 PM

I see no problem with the suggested way of looting, I only want to set a few requirements so there is even the remote possibility of any loot at all.

And this isn't anything like building a go cart in your garage, it's more like trying to make a micro processor with a hammer.

Bob · September 28, 2006, 05:22:54 PM

Quote from: Zabard;152944And this isn't anything like building a go cart in your garage, it's more like trying to make a micro processor with a hammer.

That created a really good mental picture in my head - nice one Zabard :biggrin:

Bastet · September 29, 2006, 07:52:53 AM

Quote from: Zabbardhehe. I see you fight for your right to party, or whatever u wanna call it. I may be a pesimist, but what I feel, is that by letting in anyone who wanna join with no requirement, it first of all will "scare off" the people that would carry it along (a rg1 member getting killed over and over will have a very expensive night so u can test out your "newbie" level 60). Let's compare it with a PuG of level 50s trying to do UBRS, u think they would stand much of a chance? Sorry for being such a kill joy, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

You would be supprised how many RG1 members would help out the starting of this "raid group", they might see it as a challange to heal and such, since theres actualy something to do, where normal RG1 raids kinda "suffer" from healing overload in MC/BWL

And anyhow, just hold on to your boxers for a bit, since a announcement is fortcoming shortly

Zabard · September 29, 2006, 08:23:32 AM

Well get on with it, dang it, we're on the edge of our seats!

Gib announcement +5 of slaying.

Sandrion · September 29, 2006, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: Bastet;153043where normal RG1 raids kinda "suffer" from healing overload in MC/BWL

Well that can be 'fixed'. Priests, pallies and druids can do more then just heal ya know :flirty: .

Umbra · September 29, 2006, 09:52:16 AM

Quote from: Zabard;152944I see no problem with the suggested way of looting, I only want to set a few requirements so there is even the remote possibility of any loot at all.

Seriously, MC is hard but it's not THAT bad

Quote from: Zabard;152944And this isn't anything like building a go cart in your garage, it's more like trying to make a micro processor with a hammer.

It really isn't, aq40 is like building yer own mcu -- everyone needs to know what to do
bwl is like building a house -- people should know what to do but others can show them if they arent sure
mc is like building a go kart -- a few ppl should know what to do and tell others to do a simple job