The Matrix Reloaded/Enter the Matrix

[Gh0st Face Killah]

Just seen it for a 2nd time, and you definately need to watch its again as I found that the first time I watched it for the effects and action more than the story. After the 2nd watching things become a lot clearer, also watching the animatrix helped tie up some loose ends as well. For instance the kid they meet in zion that Neo saved is from one of the animatrix shorts. The second renaisance pts 1 & 2 give you backround on the relationship between man and the machines and why the sky was blackened. The game Enter The Matrix starts where one of the animatrix shorts finishes (last flight of the Osiris).

[suicidal_monkey]

[size=18]

although if you read beyond the last one of these warnings its spoilt for you Why havent you seen it yet though?

Right, our theory was that the "real world" could actually be another matrix because the machines worked out the human flaw/desire of escaping so they made a second part to the matrix into which they allow some to "escape" thus fooling those who think they are free. When Neo is given that choice the idea was that he become the founder of the new "free" Zion to deal with future "flawed" humans and the rest of Zion is terminated so the "flawed" humans dont get too numerous. Although I like the "rules of the real world" theory too at least if offers a bit more hope for a happy ending to the film. But still the question of whether they are really out of the matrix when they believe they are hangs there

[A Twig]

But Neo's belief can circumvent the rules of the Matrix. So if he believe's he is out, surely he then is?

[Stryker]

that last time they entered the matrix the hovercraft could of been captured and they were still in the matrix even when they thought they were out.

Although twigs theory is a good one, growing mind and all.

Neo is not as invincible in the matrix as he should of been.... then again if he could simply erase his enemies there would be no fighting :-)  then again they've started talking about encryption and other features as someone mentioned upgraded agents.

Its all very interesting, lets face it this could go either way :-)

[A Twig]

And re: the reviving Trinity
None of the others had seen him do it before, it is only his belief that allows him to do it.

[ChimpBoy]

I see your points Twiggy, and they are valid suppositions given the scarcity of evidence to hand.  However, it does ignore some basic issues, as i see them:

1)  I don't think it's Neo's belief that circumvents the Matrix - surely it's because he is an essential part of the Matrix that he can bend / adapt the rules to suit himself.  What we are simply seeing is a growth in his abilities.  He isn't some demi-god.  As the architect explains, he isn't "The One" but merely an anomoly, akin to The Seraph or The Oracle (although admittedly human).

2)  If this has happened so many times before, then why was agent smith a "normal" agent in the first film - it is only now that he goes rogue.  If these events are self-perpetuating then this event doesn't fit in.

3)  The cyclical emergence and destruction of Zion - why would the machines allow this?  If "The One" is destined to come into existence as time passes, then why allow Zion to exist?  Why don't the machines merely exterminate human resistance once and for all, meaning that "The One" is never liberated in the first place?

I'm beginning to enjoy this thread - this could run and run and run.... :lol:

[A Twig]

1) I don't think it's Neo's belief that circumvents the Matrix - surely it's because he is an essential part of the Matrix that he can bend / adapt the rules to suit himself. What we are simply seeing is a growth in his abilities. He isn't some demi-god. As the architect explains, he isn't "The One" but merely an anomoly, akin to The Seraph or The Oracle (although admittedly human).

With reference to the first film, he has to believe (in the words of Morpheus) in order to utilise those abilities. The feeling I get from that is that all you need is self-control and a powerful mind in order to be able to manipulate the MAtrix, and it is Neo who exhibits these qualities, and thus is The One. Anomalies are not part of the system. For anomalies to occur the system is not functioning properly, this doesn't mean the anomaly is part of the system. Neo was born somehow, and it is this that has given him his characteristics.

2) If this has happened so many times before, then why was agent smith a "normal" agent in the first film - it is only now that he goes rogue. If these events are self-perpetuating then this event doesn't fit in.

The Matrix is altered after every One is re-assimilated, to try and determine what makes the One unique and so powerful, and to combat it. This point was made by Him, the architect.

3) The cyclical emergence and destruction of Zion - why would the machines allow this? If "The One" is destined to come into existence as time passes, then why allow Zion to exist? Why don't the machines merely exterminate human resistance once and for all, meaning that "The One" is never liberated in the first place?

It is due to the fact that humans have choice that makes it impossible. The "perfect" Matrix, the Architect's first attempt, failed because of this, so he based it on mankinds past, making it imperfect, yet more effective. However, due to this, and man's freewill there will always be some outside of it, and so it is better to be able to have limited Control, through allowing the existence of The One, than to have none at all. The Architect seemed to be saying that it is impossible to imprison every person, and somewhere there will be someone who can break free from the Matrix themselves.

[DarkAngel]

Neo was created by the machines when he was born(created). So therefore taking some of there powers and allowing him to emp them but remeber hes in a coma at the mo with and agent in a human body nxt to him and this film was much better than the first explaing a lot more and still leaving you wanting more cant wait for revolutions will be bril. shame gonna wait till christmas o well lord of the rings return of the king will be out too

[smilodon]

I think Trinity's bum looks top notch in that PVC cat suit

[DarkAngel]

smilodon Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 5:25 pm  Post subject:

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I think Trinity's *TANGO* looks top notch in that PVC cat suit

mmmmmmmmmmmmm leather    

[ChimpBoy]

Anomalies are not part of the system. For anomalies to occur the system is not functioning properly, this doesn't mean the anomaly is part of the system

But the architect specifically refers to anomalies occuring, using Neo as a reference  :?   He states that the much-needed imperfection of the system and "rogue" programs like the oracle have allowed this.

The Matrix is altered after every One is re-assimilated, to try and determine what makes the One unique and so powerful, and to combat it. This point was made by Him, the architect

So why are they trying to control him if they admit they need him to break free and create choice  :?:   Surely the system is working fine if the machines still have control after all these years.

Plus, if they have broken free as you say, it somehow diminishes the hypothesis that there is the second matrix, a point made by others earlier in the link.

Perhaps The Council are the 23 who survived the last reloading of the Matrix.  If so, which of them was The One, and why isn't Neo among them?

My head hurts.......

[suicidal_monkey]

Ctrl+Alt+Del
 :roll:

[smilodon]

And that Niobe is a bit fit too  :onfire:

[DarkAngel]

the thing is surely the arcutect said if neo goes through the right door all those connected to matrxi will die but when he goes to save trinity there are still alive hmmmm

[A Twig]

I disagree with the second Matrix theory though! Hence my points! The Architect said that all humans will die because the machines will attack Zion. The door to allow Neo to be re-assimilated is like a Reset switch, so the process would start all over again. However, the door he chose means somehow he has to save the rest of mankind himself...
Hmmm, Ctrl+Alt+Delete Indeed!