quad core or dual core 4 gaming ?

[[BIG]magnus]

There are some games that will get some fps from a bigger cache.  Alot of games it makes almost no difference.  I agree that clock speed of the cpu has a small effect on fps as well but that depends on the rest of the system.  If your cpu is limiting the amount of information that is being sent to the gfx card then an overclock will obviously help.  If your gfx card is limiting the system then no overclock will make any difference.  If i run my cpu at default clocks it limits the rest of my system in gaming.  I have a 4870 x2, 4 gig of ram 2 velo raptors in raid.  I gain quite a jump overclocking from standard to 4 ghz when gaming in both fps and load times.  The ram also gets overclocked from standard as well.  I was pointing out that the increase in a chache size would no next to nothing for the cost of a new cpu compared to a spring clean.  Thermal material also degrades over and temps slowly increase, this normally occurs with the stuff applied to the bottom of a cooler when bought.  On the other hand a Q9650 gathering dust is always a bad thing so if the price is right get a good cooler and go for it.  They are very nice chips.    Sorry if my last post looked like a you will get no benefit from larger cache new chip.  You will but you will also get a boost from ocing present one.

Have at look at this article.  It is a little old due to the age of the chip but gives you an idea of what a little oc can do.  It also shows well what the cache can do for some games and not others.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=606&p=8



Magnus

[kregoron]

magnus;260975']There are some games that will get some fps from a bigger cache.  Alot of games it makes almost no difference.  I agree that clock speed of the cpu has a small effect on fps as well but that depends on the rest of the system.  If your cpu is limiting the amount of information that is being sent to the gfx card then an overclock will obviously help.  If your gfx card is limiting the system then no overclock will make any difference.  If i run my cpu at default clocks it limits the rest of my system in gaming.  I have a 4870 x2, 4 gig of ram 2 velo raptors in raid.  I gain quite a jump overclocking from standard to 4 ghz when gaming in both fps and load times.  The ram also gets overclocked from standard as well.  I was pointing out that the increase in a chache size would no next to nothing for the cost of a new cpu compared to a spring clean.  Thermal material also degrades over and temps slowly increase, this normally occurs with the stuff applied to the bottom of a cooler when bought.  On the other hand a Q9650 gathering dust is always a bad thing so if the price is right get a good cooler and go for it.  They are very nice chips.    Sorry if my last post looked like a you will get no benefit from larger cache new chip.  You will but you will also get a boost from ocing present one.

Have at look at this article.  It is a little old due to the age of the chip but gives you an idea of what a little oc can do.  It also shows well what the cache can do for some games and not others.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=606&p=8



Magnus

Yes ofc a cpu gains performance from higher mhz, mhz just isnt everything anymore
Well actually you know what a CPU gains most from when overclocking, higher fsb clocks = über performance
It increases access time and overall bandwith in the CPU..
I can clock my CPU to 3.5Ghz as a FSB overclock or as a multiplier overclock and trust me the fsb overclock is what matters..
I got nice AMD dev tool from k|ngp|n which is a old OC guru, it enables me to shut down sections of the cache on AMD Phenom II cpu's so ill do a little Benchmark with it..

Super PI / mod 1.5XS
32M calculation

4x512kb mode = 23m 57.537s
4x256kb mode = 28m 21.821s
-----------------------------

3dmark 06

4x512kb mode = 20271
4x256kb mode = 17981


Im not trying to play a know it all or bashing anything, i just find it odd that people are still going on with the mhz is everything concept..
a huge variety of factors play in when you think what makes a CPU do more performance sadly cache is just so expensive building into a chip...


Ye my m8 is stopping by tomorrow then we can discuss if he still wants that Q9650 or if i need to find another seller
Just a note, there isnt any warranty on the Q9650..

[[BIG]magnus]

I agree my 12mb of cache makes an improvement.  For gaming though it does make any difference in some games and a large in others.  I also know that MHZ is not the only system performance boost. I was advising on the OP questions on upgrading.  Synthetic benchmarks are great for working out chips but does not always equate to real life gains or losses.  Please correct me but do phenom ii chips make better use of their cache than c2d?  Also the overall architecture of the chip has more than anything to do with overall performance.  Look at I7 lower cache but higher performance per cpu cycle, even when excluding the huge memory bandwidth that it has but in gaming (so far and excluding multiple card setups) not much different to c2d.  I am sure that will change if programmers start to use the extra power and cores.

[kregoron]

Well the difference in how the CPU utilizes the Caches is found in the calculation pipeline..
A long pipeline degrase the performance of cache therefore a higher cache is needed..
AMD and intel has different approaches on this issue and has had for a long time..
This was the main reason why the Athlon 64 performed so good compared to intels P4 prescott...
The A64 has a short pipeline of only some 28 steps, where the p4 pressy was at 72 steps (insane) longer pipeline is one of the factors that increase the max Mhz they can get a CPU to perform at.. but sadly has a huge impact on cache performance..
With the later chips Phenoms/C2D&C2Q/i7 the gap in pipeline is smaller, but still noticeable in the cache size, intel is down to a pipelenght of some 58 steps where AMD has some 42 i think with the Phenom II..
So yes the Phenom II us utilizing the Cache more offective then the i7/C2X, but intel just adds more cache to make up for it..
Sadly the cache is probably the most of expensive part of making a CPU as it takes so much of the die..
I guess the reason for this long pipeline impact on performance is that the CPU utilizes the cache as as EXTREMELY fast temp storage along the pipeline, so more steps more cache is needed, else the cpu needs to empty out the cache to often and it impacts the performance..

Im hoping im not babling to much.. this is getting techy i guess

Well you are right in a sence, games / apps with loads of math like rendering, and physics really love cache.. where more simple based games doesnt really care.. but in the future we are gonna see a higher degree of cache loving apps and games..

[[BIG]magnus]

Thanks!! I always forget who uses the cache best!!  I do remember reading (many moons ago) That cache was 100 times expensive per meg than HD's but must be still around 5 x the cost of ddr2.  Nice and fast and rather small!

[kregoron]

well its always a good idea to give it a nice good cleaning, could give you a tiny bit more headroom to oc it a little

I just realised i might have a Q9650 up for sale, as its just collecting dust, got a offer from a m8 tho, so ill have to hear him if he still wants it (he hasnt asked for it in a while or you could give me a offer in a pm and get back to you over the weekend.

Just got the hold of my m8, and im sorry to inform hes bought it now..

But i might have a i7 rig up for sale soon if interested..

[TeaLeaf]

I'm reading this thread just get more looks at Magnus' avatar. :norty:

TL.

[delankster]

Just got the hold of my m8, and im sorry to inform hes bought it now..

But i might have a i7 rig up for sale soon if interested..

np kreg,:thumbsup2: thanks anyway

let me know on the i7 rig but as i said earlier it was my plan to hold off for a few years before a full rig update.......
 but if the price is right i might be tempted :flirty:

[Jabbs]

I'm reading this thread just get more looks at Magnus' avatar. :norty:

TL.

Same, keep posting Magnus! One little tweak of animation would send me over the edge :norty:

I am interested in the technical discussions too as I'll be buying new PC in a few weeks (honest) :blink:

[kregoron]

Just need to find out if the missus wants to buy it...


She claims her old x2400+ 2Gig ddr1 radeon 9800Pro cant run The Sims 3 but she doesnt wanna pay for a new puter -.-

[GhostMjr]

Just found this thread.

Delan what did you choose in the end as you pretty much have the same system as me.

I am thinking of a new cpu in the summer with a bit more ram as mines only 2gb.

Also Kreg did you find a buyer for your i7 system?

[delankster]

in the end i decided to hold off on the cpu change as recommended .

have ordered some additional Ram to boost peformance and was thinking of maybe upgrading my 8800gts to a gf 280/295 with the mind of transfering into a new rig in a few years time. but as my mobo is only pci e x16 and the  new cards are pci e 2.0 (allthought they are backward compatable) i'm not sure if i'll gain alot.


so basically saving me penny's for a new rig :sad:

[kregoron]

in the end i decided to hold off on the cpu change as recommended .
 
have ordered some additional Ram to boost peformance and was thinking of maybe upgrading my 8800gts to a gf 280/295 with the mind of transfering into a new rig in a few years time. but as my mobo is only pci e x16 and the new cards are pci e 2.0 (allthought they are backward compatable) i'm not sure if i'll gain alot.
 
 
so basically saving me penny's for a new rig :sad:

New cards are just on the steps..
ATI with their 4890 series and nVIDIA with their GTX275 series so prices is due to change across the board

[delankster]

New cards are just on the steps..
ATI with their 4890 series and nVIDIA with their GTX275 series so prices is due to change across the board

:yahoo: cool will keep an eye out

[Sithvid]

http://www.powerc.com/uk/ps/Gaming%20Intel%20Base%20Unit/1/code/cs-game-eli/act/gpage
My current PC went bust so i just got this ....Quad core 4 GIG ram and 21" TFT