Raiding Eligibility Questions

[Sneakytiger]

ok guys what my problem?

1: hardly ever get a grp
2: being subbed alot

there must be reasons for this
if i stink as a player tell me and i'll leave the guild
i mean i raided all thru nax,uldaur and toc
and now i'm not good enuff?

i'm 39 and i'm starting to wonder y i'm paying my subs for

tbh i'm losing the will, i've been playing to raid and thats not really happening
so if i cant change that i might quit wow altogether

[walrob]

I am disappointed that I was not ââ,¬Ëœchosenââ,¬â,,¢ to raid tonight (11/04/10), but given that we were over-subscribed, I was not surprised.

What did surprise me was the poor way that it was handled. Being invited to (and locked into) a raid group only to be subsequently booted (presumably to make room for someone else) was unpleasant to say the least and left me with a ââ,¬Ëœbitter taste in my mouthââ,¬â,,¢.

It did get me thinking about a few things that I would like clarified, all of which I have seen mentioned by others over the past week or so. I am not implying anything with these questions; I simply would like to know the information.

Firstly, a question I have asked twice before which has yet to be answered. Are we a hardcore or social raiding Guild?

How many ââ,¬Ëœautomaticââ,¬â,,¢ raid spots are there? Are these for: Class Leaders? Officers? Anyone else?

Of those positions that are available after the automatic raid spots are filled what criteria are used to choose the remainder, in order of precedence:

Class (obviously)? Gear/ability?  Experience? Loyalty/time served in guild? Date/time a player signs up to the raid? Time player logs on in order to raid? Did/did not take part in last raid? Being part of a sub-group, faction or clique within the guild? Random ââ,¬Ëœroll of the diceââ,¬â,,¢? Anything else?

Are raid spots open until:
- the ââ,¬Ëœofficialââ,¬â,,¢ raid start time?
- the raid actually starts?
- some other time?

How many toons can each player have as ââ,¬ËœHonouredââ,¬â,,¢ (or higher) within the guild? Are there any exceptions (eg Officers, Class Leaders, or anyone else)?

I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:

- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?

Most importantly, I would like to end by saying a big thank you to Sithy for organising a Guild event for us ââ,¬Ëœrejectsââ,¬â,,¢.

Robert
aka Treekin

[TeaLeaf]

Firstly, a question I have asked twice before which has yet to be answered. Are we a hardcore or social raiding Guild?
How many toons can each player have as ââ,¬ËœHonouredââ,¬â,,¢ (or higher) within the guild? Are there any exceptions (eg Officers, Class Leaders, or anyone else)?

I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:

- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?

Rob, I can handle some of these quickly.

The first of the above questions doesn't help you, so call it whatever you want.  At 3 nights per week then we're not hardcore, but we all want progress but in a nice social environment but where people perform to the level required for the progress.  As nobody really knows a precise definition of a 'social raiding guild' I'm not sure it if we qualify.

Not sure what you want to know about 'honoured' or higher, the ranks are int he guild list for all to see.  You can count them if you want.  Everyone one has one main for the purposes of invites, nobody has two, but clearly where class shortages dictate you might get an alt invited to allow the raid to proceed.  You can also click on the badge on the left of the post, all officers & CLs are marked with an appropriate badge and it takes you to a full list.  The same info is also in the in-game guild list.

Officer/CL function is quite simple.  CLs run the class for raids.  Officer are part of the Council and they run the guild and ultimately take overall control of everything - the buck stops with them.

If it is any consolation I spent some time getting locked in an instance tonight and am now sat outside it, so I know the situation, but sometimes a rotation is needed.

Hope this helps.

[TeaLeaf]

Merged Krac's thread into this one as similar topic.

Krac, we all get rotated, but I'll leave the ones who organised the raid to comment on specifics.  For the first time in a while you have enough people in the guild to run a 25 man raid each raid night.  This will inevitably mean more sitting than it did before, but also more progress.

What I would suggest though to both you & Rob is rather than post a public thread, why not ask your CL the questions you posted?  They should be involved in the decision on who is in and who you rotate & when.  You'll probably get a quicker answer too!

[Sithvid]

After a week of no raids i was really up for tonight and share the disappointment with the other subs, hey Sith Happens, and I feel like others left out more than my fair share but this is probably a subjective view.??

As we know when a raid gets started its hard to focus on all the whisp etc so when u are not selected accept it and move on, stay positive and do something else.

I disagree with TL (who sits objective & neutral so i respect the input) the buck does not stop with the class leaders or officers as they are of no greater importance than the rest of the guild, they "simply" lead the raid and organise the tactics.
Other posts ask for our opinions, it is our guild as has been quoted .
Class leader raid leader or bottle washer the motivation responsibility attitude etc etc should be the same, as should the chance to get in ...

I welcome the influx of new blood, perhaps some thought can be given how it is mixed with the old.
DKP for raid spots!

[Jim]

EDIT: Wasn't at last nights raid and got told about a problem so yeah, Deleted my post

[jantore]

As a verry old timer when it comes to raiding id like to chip in a few words.
 
Back in the day of vanila wow, when we had MC, BL and so on. We would get days with alot of ppl raiding. At one point we had 2 raid groups in SoG. 1 "hardcore" social group and one not so "hardcore" social group. At that time we had about 120 active raiders if im not mistaken, TL might chip in about this. At that time i was one off the "Vetran" locks in the guild and ofc i would be chosen to be in the raid as we where aiming to kill nefarian. But as a big group we would hafto rotate our spots so that everyone got to raid. Did it slow our progress, no i don't think so, cause the group was leaded by some verry good raid leaders.
 
Now after a whil TBC came and Raid group 1 got sort of disbanded as members joined other guilds. I joined Sora 1 week after it was created with members from Anything and Rigtheous. Now that was a hardcore raid guild. Raiding 4-5 days a week, always stacking up on pots, always pushing hard from 1930 to 2330 on every raid day. We had 3-5 extra ppl in the raid group, but we where all requierd to show up on each raid night. If you could not show up then you had to let your class leader know asap. And it was tough, whiping and pushing. But it payed out, Hyjal and BT was cleared in good time and made the guild one of the better ones in europe.
 
Now Sunwell Platau hit and we started on that, we had lost a few raid members and gotten new ones. Not all had done much in Hyjal and BT and we did not progress as fast as ppl wanted. At this time my intrest in the game started to fade so i asked to be taken out of the raid group. 2 months later the guild disbanded due to ppl not focusing.
 
I for one think the reason why it happend was ppl got tierd of raiding too much, and did not have a wide enough raid group. If we raid a 25 man dungeon then you should have a raid group consisting of 35-40 players that will rotate on the raiding. This is doable and will give ppl 2/3 raid days or maybe you can only raid 1 day this week then so be it. Others can take that raid spot.
 
The raid leaders know what they are doing, are they pushing for a kill ofc the want to have the ppl with the best gear and the ppl that have done the encounter the most times there. But everyone needs to learn it at some point if they are in the raid group. And don't give up, ever
 
My first raid day was some scary ****, a green and blue warlock was invited into MC for the first time ever, think we where on Sulfron at that time. Well i started off by dying after the 2nd pull or something, and ended up almost beating Kreuz record for most deaths. For those who do not know who Kreuz is, he is a human mage.
 
So just stay with the program, talk to your class leader and raise your concerns there. And ask for a rotating system.
 
JT

[FatBob]

Gonna try and shed a bit of light on a few things about raiding, as requested

With regards to getting locked out, well the solution is to join the group but just don't enter the instance until you know you're in the raid, we always have and will continue to invite all available raiders to a group so that

A) We can see whos on and available and check this against raid signups.

B) Award DKP to raiders and subs alike.

C) Get a list of available subs should someone need to be replaced.

Also the ICC 25 man is locked for raiders in DMR

Once we can see who is around then we goto defcon 2 assembling a raid

"Of those positions that are available after the automatic raid spots are filled what criteria are used to choose the remainder, in order of precedence:
Class (obviously)? Gear/ability? Experience? Loyalty/time served in guild? Date/time a player signs up to the raid? Time player logs on in order to raid? Did/did not take part in last raid? Being part of a sub-group, faction or clique within the guild? Random ââ,¬Ëœroll of the diceââ,¬â,,¢? Anything else?"

Answered your own question there mate -  class, experience and gear (for progression raids)

There is no old school tie, there are no guaranteed spots, every single officer has at some point dropped from a raid to allow room for someone else, now we find ourselves in the great position of actually having more than enough people to raid so this entails that not everyone will get a spot.

We now have to sort out our resources and make the best of what we now have. Unfortunatly (for mages and hunters but fortunatly for DMR)
we now have gone from 2 hunters to 5 and 2 mages to 6 and 2 locks to 4
etc so ALL will be rotated at some point, difference being that all the above have as good or in most cases better kit than DMR do so can be put into any fight as needed, this is not an option for the people needing gearing up.

Last night was a progression night starting at festergut which requires extreme levels of DPS, the logs aren't up yet but i doubt that there were many if any that were under 6.5kdps at the low end and some of the guys were up near 9k dps at the top end and we still only made the enrage by 5 secs (this is not an e-peen moment just a fact)  progression nights and undergeared raiders don't mix well - sorry if that sounds harsh but its true -

However let me just say that we will be making every effort to help gear all our raiders who need stuff, for a start the first 25 man each week we will allocate as many spots as we can to people needing gear (3 or 4 but its a suck it and see moment here - we got enuff dps then cool if we dont or have too much then we change the numbers till it works) for at least the first 4 bosses (bear in mind this and 10 mans and badges is how we geared up and not a huge amount is needed by many from these bosses).

After this we may need to swap people out for better geared members to reach the considerably higher DPS requirments needed for the next 3 bosses, as everyones gear gets better then this will not be so much of an issue and we can just drop everyone into a normal spot rotation.

We will be putting up 10 mans for during the week as well on non raiding nights, this week we will try to just invite all to a big group and then have a sort out, making room for at least one person who needs gearing in each group (although it may yet be a progress group and then a group with a coupla spots we shall see !)

Please be patient and understand that we have just had to sort a merger into DMR of the bulk of another raiding guild and this is only a week old and working nicely !

There was alot of hard work from both guild masters to make this happen and in my opinion we have achieved saving both them and us from going to the raiding dogs as far as 25 man raids go, two weeks ago we were cancelling raids and losing members at a rate now we got 40 people online at raid time...i know what i'd rather have.
There is still a few bits to sort out and work is ongoing regarding this so apologies if we seem to not answer sometimes or are a bit short but believe it or not we like to play the game as well !

(adding a smiley so the above is taken in the right way but cant find em so you'll have to make do with a home made one : )

[DFE]

Being invited to (and locked into) a raid group

- I think you only get saved if you enter the instance, it is not like you join the raid and automatically get saved to all instances the raid group is saved to AFAIK  - if this was what you wrote about.

[DFE]

I have already posted this in General Absence thread but I think it has its just spot even in this thread.
I cannot raid on Tuesdays so there will be one hunter less to consider.  Also, I am wiling to free my spot on Thursdays for first 3 bosses (or even 4 if I dont have enough DKP to win a armor token) for the sake of gearing up people who actually need either loot, emblems or reputation.
And last, but not least, my wife allows me to raid only two nights a week.

I hope all this will help to ease the tension a bit.

[Drakelin]

ive been at that point where i felt i never got an invite and it bothered me seeing demi playing but i were left out, this is not not a big deal anymore since healers are more or less always needed.
after some time i see that its beeing rotated around. so everyone gets a spot, ofc there is more ppl left out atm because of the newly merge this is also something to consider.

another side is as DFE meantioned about him willing to give a spot for 3 bosses if he has dkp for the mark, i belive that if you want loot from a specific boss you should be in the raid from the beginning and not swap through specific bosses as this would be unfair to the rest whos doing all the work just to get it nicked away,
we need some rules about that

[Maypal]

i belive that if you want loot from a specific boss you should be in the raid from the beginning and not swap through specific bosses as this would be unfair to the rest whos doing all the work just to get it nicked away,
we need some rules about that

The whole point of people sitting out on the first bosses is to allow the people who need the gear from these bosses the chance to get it. You should not think that "hey I'm doing all the work here so I should be in for the whole raid". The people who need the gear should be more of the opinion, that people who would have been in competition for their raid place have stepped aside to allow for them to gear up. People who actively step aside should then not be penalized because they were not involved in the first 3 - 4 bosses. In my opinion they should be applauded for allowing other members to raid / gear up.

[DannagE]

I'll willingly step aside whilst im on nights and afters

[TeaLeaf]

Maypal is spot on in my opinion.  Sitting out to allow others to get the loot when you already have the loot you need is the best way to gear the raid - especially as you get DKP whether you are in the queue or in the instance.

[Sithvid]

OK all happy now lets move on