Wallspamming

Dr Sadako · September 28, 2002, 12:15:00 PM

Well, I just want to know the ruling on wallspamming. On N42 this is not allowed and I want to know what is legit and not here.

Here are some examples

1.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) without having seen an enemy. Just shooting there because "there was an enemy there last round".

2.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) having spotted an enemy.

3.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) having seen an enemy but hostages are in the line of fire and gets hurt/killed.

4.
Deliberatly throwing HE into an area with hostages.

(Btw 2. is allowed on n42.)

Just wondering. :roll:

smite · September 28, 2002, 12:37:40 PM

The only problem i see there is the hurting of hostages that is not allowed.
But the rest as far as i can see is no problem the only problem you are going to come across is if one of your team mates are hiding behind said box and if you kill him you will/should be repramanded for it.

On that note since the kill or forgive mod has been added everyone is being too nice about forgiving. If you kill one of your teamates you should die yourself, the only way that you should not is if someone is stupid enough to walk in front of you whilst you are in a fire fight. im sure that someone is going to come up with another reason like if you throw a grenade at an enemy and one of your teamates are in the pack but even then you should have some idea where your teamates are.
I know this may lead to Stryker not playing very much in a game but he will just have to learn to stop killing his teamates (Hehehe :twisted: :twisted: prepare for one explosion form stryker)
Sorry for taking over you post Sadako

Anonymous · September 28, 2002, 12:41:37 PM

Dont know what the rules are but as everyone has opinions here are mine :-)

1. Really don't like this. Unrealistic, sure it gains a kill sometimes but you wouldn't do this for real.

2. Seems fair to me.

3. The aim should be not to hurt hossies. I feel that it is possible to get another angle on most shots so as to avoid hossies. Sometimes it is tricky but we should try not to hit them.

4. Flashbangs and smoke yes. I don't think we should use HE in that situation for the same reasons as in 3 above.

Well just my twopenn'orth. CU on "The 'Hook"

TeaLeaf · September 28, 2002, 01:03:06 PM

QuoteWell, I just want to know the ruling on wallspamming. On N42 this is not allowed and I want to know what is legit and not here.

I already gave you my view on the server, but seeing as you posted this up I'll put it in writing for you :wink:

Quote1.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) without having seen an enemy. Just shooting there because "there was an enemy there last round".

This is probably the most contentious. But thenagain think about it - in real life a CT would have been trained not to go through a door without being careful and also to figure out what the good hiding spots are. There is arguably some justification for shooting through a door (like in cs_assault) or into a wall (hmm, cs_assault springs to mind again - garage door). Overall I think this is one to monitor as its justification will vary from map to map.

Quote2.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) having spotted an enemy.

The T deserves everything they get - squish them freely.

Quote3.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) having seen an enemy but hostages are in the line of fire and gets hurt/killed.

As Hossies can't be moved then this is easily avoided, but there are times when it is justified. How many times do you see Ts hiding behind the hossies in cs_office?

Quote4.
Deliberatly throwing HE into an area with hostages.

Again, as Hossies can't be moved then this is problematic as there sometimes no other way of getting into a room - an acceptable level of casualties is realistic. Killing all the hossies to gain entry is not. Watch and monitor. Apply common sense. Again, I wouldn't like to ban this one, but I would keep an eye on it.

Hope this helps.

TL.

Dr Sadako · September 28, 2002, 01:37:45 PM

Quote
QuoteWell, I just want to know the ruling on wallspamming. On N42 this is not allowed and I want to know what is legit and not here.
I already gave you my view on the server, but seeing as you posted this up I'll put it in writing for you :wink:

Quote1.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) without having seen an enemy. Just shooting there because "there was an enemy there last round".
This is probably the most contentious. But thenagain think about it - in real life a CT would have been trained not to go through a door without being careful and also to figure out what the good hiding spots are. There is arguably some justification for shooting through a door (like in cs_assault) or into a wall (hmm, cs_assault springs to mind again - garage door). Overall I think this is one to monitor as its justification will vary from map to map.
[/b]

In real life you don't know where the hostages are and you could actually kill an hossie spamming a wall/door/box. Then we have the factor that ppl know the maps and the hostages aren't moveable by the Ts and that they appear as blue dots on a radar. So IRL the CT wouldn't spam a door at all. Secondly spamming a wall would break the silence and if you as CT approach by stealth and randomly spam you would give yoursef away = not good. So there's the dilemma. Where is the line of realism drawn?

That is why I ask and also so there will be a general ruling that everybody knows and follows.

Quote
Quote3.
Spamming a wall/box/door (e.g. a common camping spot) having seen an enemy but hostages are in the line of fire and gets hurt/killed.
As Hossies can't be moved then this is easily avoided, but there are times when it is justified. How many times do you see Ts hiding behind the hossies in cs_office?
[/b]

This is true but as CT your objective is to save ALL of the hostages not to kill the terrorist team. Here I think the CT should avoid spamming an area if there is a risk to injure/kill an hostage. The fact is that you don't see a T and the chance of getting a kill is small compared to kill a hostage which is rather high. If there isn't a T there and you kill a hostage you have done the action in vain. Well, here we have the realism factor again ...

My priorities are:

1. team
2. objective
3. kills

smite · September 28, 2002, 01:52:13 PM

Quote
My priorities are:

1. team
2. objective
3. kills

And my priorities are:-

1. Breasts (now come on deny it everyone agrees with that)
2. Food and Drink (i personally like food as my gut is starting to prove)
3. CS, UT and possibly a few pr0n sites (just for research purposes)

8O

:twisted: :twisted: :smokin: :smokin:

Dr Sadako · September 28, 2002, 01:55:08 PM

Quote
Quote
My priorities are:

1. team
2. objective
3. kills

And my priorities are:-

1. Breasts (now come on deny it everyone agrees with that)
2. Food and Drink (i personally like food as my gut is starting to prove)
3. CS, UT and possibly a few pr0n sites (just for research purposes)

8O :twisted: :twisted: :smokin: :smokin:[/b]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TeaLeaf · September 28, 2002, 08:41:02 PM

Firstly I think this is a real small issue and we are blowing it up into a real big issue, which it is not. We don't have a major problem with it so please let's not make it a major problem eh?

QuoteIn real life you don't know where the hostages are and you could actually kill an hossie spamming a wall/door/box. Then we have the factor that ppl know the maps and the hostages aren't moveable by the Ts and that they appear as blue dots on a radar. So IRL the CT wouldn't spam a door at all. Secondly spamming a wall would break the silence and if you as CT approach by stealth and randomly spam you would give yoursef away = not good. So there's the dilemma. Where is the line of realism drawn?

Firstly, when the Libyan Embassy was rushed by the SAS in the '80s they didn't exactly do it by sneaking in the back door - they knew where the hossies were beforehand and they knew roughly where the bad guys were. When they went in, they did it by planting C4 on all the first floor windows and blowing them out to allow entry. THEN they tossed a few grenades in for good measure (FBs mainly). THEN they rushed in and shot a few doors. THEN they got the hossies out. They didn't do it in silence. They did it with good intelligence, good team planning, brute force and surprise. Grenades count as a 'surprise' in this scenario. I would argue we work in similar circumstances on cs maps.

Secondly (and this is only a general comment) but I don't know many anti-terrorist teams that go yomping around central London on their travel cards 'just in case' they come across a building they can infiltrate to blow a few people up in the possible hope of finding a few hostages to rescue amongst the throngs of midday shoppers - do you? :wink: They always know where the hossies are to one extent or another. The variable is where the Ts are. Acceptable damage allows for a few hossies to be damaged or lost along the way. If this happens then it's not a perfect outcome, but it is acceptable.

Thirdly, I like breasts, drink and food, in that order.

QuoteThis is true but as CT your objective is to save ALL of the hostages not to kill the terrorist team. Here I think the CT should avoid spamming an area if there is a risk to injure/kill an hostage. The fact is that you don't see a T and the chance of getting a kill is small compared to kill a hostage which is rather high. If there isn't a T there and you kill a hostage you have done the action in vain. Well, here we have the realism factor again ...

My bad, I didn't word that very well, did I. I would not (on cs_office for example) support any CT who just jumped around the right-hand entrance to the projector room and fired off a few rounds 'just in case' there was a T there. But if you see one there you have to make a personal judgement as to what is an acceptable risk. That means deciding whether or not you can rescue ANY of the hostages without dealing with that awkwardly placed T. And you CANNOT legislate for that individual's decision. The mission objective is to rescue the hossies, NOT 'all' the hossies, just as many as we can. But who are we kidding? If the Ts sit there next to or behind the hossies then 'acceptable risk' is going to become a regular part of the equation and people will have to make their own decisions.

QuoteMy priorities are:
1. team
2. objective
3. kills

I agree with your objectives with one exception - I don't have the third one on my list (as my lamentably rabid pit-prop scores will demonstrate with some considerable ease) :lol: Let's also remember that your background was N42 PCS. And as we both know, N42 was generally a lot stricter on the PCS rules than MeatHook PCS. So it is only to be expected that you will find some questionable differences between 'the other place' and this.

See you on the MH.

TL.

FrEnZy · September 28, 2002, 08:57:51 PM

Just like to point out that CS does have its own "acceptable casualties" limit.

The CT's must rescue 50% min of the hossie to win by saving hossies! If more then 50% are lost then the only way the CT's can win is by completing the secondary objective of killing the T's.

...my tuppence

OldBloke · September 28, 2002, 09:18:16 PM

I'm all for healthy debate about the finer points of PCS but I would hate to see us weighed down by 'rules' enforcing strict gameplay. I much prefer our current setup where we have the objectives, map boundaries and guidelines. Our style of PCS doesn't need to be any stricter than it is.

Many a game on N42 was spoilt for me by the constant demands for definitive answers to what were, IMHO, minor details.

Can I shoot through walls and doors? Sure. If you want to waste bullets that's up to you. If there's an enemy there he'll soon learn that it's not a good spot to linger.

Can I throw grens even if I've not seen the enemy? Sure. If I'm against you then I'm quite happy to see grens wasted like that rather than used to great effect later in the round when I've already been shot to within a few health points of death.

I should add that this is my own view and not official policy.

Dr Sadako · September 28, 2002, 10:11:28 PM

OK. I am satisfied with the answers.

My new priorities

1. HE all the hostages
2. Kill or wound the entire team (doesn't matter which team)
3. Flash team mates when assaulting
4. Knock on each door before entering
5. Only use glock or usp 'cause it is 1337
6. Jive talk over the voice comm
7. Constantly type "CS=BS"

8O

:wink: :lol:

Dr Sadako · September 28, 2002, 10:14:05 PM

Quote
My new priorities

1. HE all the hostages
2. Kill or wound the entire team (doesn't matter which team)
3. Flash team mates when assaulting
4. Knock on each door before entering
5. Only use glock or usp 'cause it is 1337
6. Jive talk over the voice comm
7. Constantly type "CS=BS"

I was told these doesn't go well with PCS so I'll go with Smites ... :thumbsup:

Anonymous · September 28, 2002, 11:51:15 PM

QuoteOK. I am satisfied with the answers.

My new priorities

1. HE all the hostages
2. Kill or wound the entire team (doesn't matter which team)
3. Flash team mates when assaulting
4. Knock on each door before entering
5. Only use glock or usp 'cause it is 1337
6. Jive talk over the voice comm
7. Constantly type "CS=BS"

8O

:wink: :lol:

I knew I loved you for a reason. it's your humour :lol:

Nice one.

FatBob · September 29, 2002, 03:21:17 AM

Those nice cs people gave me a gun ....and now i wanna shoot stuff....lots and lots of stuff......NURSE!!!

TeaLeaf · September 29, 2002, 08:23:39 AM

Bob, it was 3.21am when you made your post. We can now officially diagnose you as suffering from insomnia. I'd also like to advise his team mates for the little competition that he'll be completely useless come Sunday afternoon as he will have been up all night :lol: Tough luck guys!

What's that you say? He's wha.....on who's..........he's on which...........he's with me?.........

Damn you FB you're on MY team.....I order you to GO TO SLEEP and get rested for next Sunday!!

/me thinks that the team name may possibly relate to FB's insomnia :lol:

TL.