What would your loadout be?

[Justin Tolerable]

Given that the Idris is going to be more of an Org resource than private party boat, what's your opinion on the loadout for the hangar deck?  It will be able to hold at least four hornets, according to Erin at F42 (PLEASE don't share that info outside this subforum, it was told to the Idris Owners' Club when we delivered their gifts recently).

I currently have:

3 x Super Hornets
1 x Hornet Tracker

I do also have an M50 and 350R, plus an Avenger.  However, I plan to use those for other things, so not for the Idris hangar.  They could be drafted in though.

My question is, are Super Hornets actually the best things to have in there?  Should I melt them and spam the deck with M50s, for example?  How about regular hornets, with the slight speed advantage over the SH?  Should it be a mixture of different ships to make sure we have the rock / paper / scissors dynamic covered?

Now's the week to decide, and I thought I'd give you guys a say - seeing as in reality you'll probably be flying the thing more than I will (I have a busy job and a young daughter!).

[Gorion]

Depends on how the size system is going to work in ships really, which we don't know much about.

You should keep those SHs.  If the size system is variable, like hangars, a good loadout would be 2xSH, 1xRedeemer/bomber (Anyone has info on the Bomber size?) for example.

M50's are agile, but in the end useless in CAP ship battles.  Firepower against both CAP ships, and fighters would be needed, which is why the above loadout would be good.

The redeemer could be used to drop take over teams, plus assist as a mobile turret platform, whilst the bomber would help destroy the CAP ship.  Depends on the path taken.  Take opponents' CAP ship, or blow it up.

I'd rather we took it over, then use it, sell it, take its parts/weapons etc.

[Galatoni]

Redeemer would be landible but if the mechanic applies to the Idris as the hangar module, it would be the only one in there  due to the large size ship. Don't count the M50 out. Being fast is excellent when intercepting (if not destroying incoming fighters) point defence can take care of some too. I would personally leave support roles (fleet repairs\SWACS\medevac etc) to more specialist assets. We've got plenty of them. Concentrate the Idris on c&c and fleet defence. With it being the P, it lacks the largest cap ship hardpoint , not a problem though if you use torps.

As for carrier ability focus on expensive short range assets that need field access to hanger facilities. Anything else is really wasting the resource. Imo anyway.

This is a really good point though. While we may be 'making assumptions' generally were looking at something that is as close to s tell life version of space fleet carrier actions. While we can say that a particular asset belongs in a category, it's the category that we'd be assigning to a role or job. Keeping it general like this we can start to organise things in a fairly practical way. Same with personnel too. Rank aside (to say we may or may not have them is a discussion for another time - but one we should maybe have soon?) we can say what people will like to do.

[Justin Tolerable]

What I'm really talking about is the Idris hangar deck, which is extremely unlikely to fit a Redeemer (am I reading you right there?).  It's a set size, so you can put whatever fits in there.  Apparently it may fit something as big as a cutlass, but it will be tight.  I can see the Redeemer being a brilliant support ship though, heavy on the guns and a boarding crew if we need to get "fighty".

Galatoni - your point about keeping it "general" is a good one and is part of why I want to have this discussion.  SH are space superiority, but they are going to be pretty slow and far less maneuverable than other ships.  Perhaps it's better to have:

1 x F7C-M
2 x F7C
1 x Tracker (I'll explain in a minute)

That way, we have at least one heavy hitter and two more flexible ships.  I imagine it will be easier to refit a standard hornet for stealth, for example - given the superhornet's bigger powerplant and hull size, I figure it'll be harder to conceal.

As for the tracker, there are two reasons for this.  Firstly it's apparently part of the standard Idris flight group in S42 according to Erin, suggesting that the game mechanics will make it valuable.  The second is that the Idris is a big ship.  It may have big scanners, but I don't want to take that thing into an asteroid belt to have a poke around.  I can't imagine a scenario where scouting ahead isn't going to be enormously useful.  I wouldn't take a tank into tight city streets without sending someone in ahead first.  Even in an exploration scenario where there's nobody else about, I'd rather have something that can zip around checking stuff out than fly my massive ship (with expensive running costs) into every blind spot.

If we don't need the tracker, we take the radar out and keep it in storage.

Quick note on the M50's - they might not be any good for cap ships, but they're currently legendary against hornets.  You can be in the most well equipped hornet in the universe and you'll still struggle to hit a tiny, highly maneuverable, extremely fast target.  When I've played in that during multiplayer, it's been a piece of cake to take a fair few people out (and I'm pretty bad at combat).  Picture trying to use a rocket launcher to shoot a bee.  I suspect it will get balanced in the future, but right now I can imagine a swarm of those things coming out of an Idris being an absolutely terrifying sight.  The big limitation is pilots - to fly a swarm, we need a ton of pilots!

Next question - do we need an interceptor?  Something to hunt down that Herald that's causing trouble?

[Gorion]

The SHs might be slightly slower, yet their firepower cannot be matched by a the normal Hornet.  Remember that tuning and custom parts will be available, so the slight speed disadvantage can be mitigated.  M50s will be used as guerrillas, yet a single missile and they're down, there's that Phoenix auto defense turret as well, and it should tear those pests to shreds.  Considering that we'll have tons of missiles, I don't see them becoming a problem.

As for the Tracker, there might be role specific scout ships, which would perform better in that sector than the HT.  To be honest, an M50 is brilliant as a scout.  Also, there should shields/engines that reduce heat signatures.

Re hangar space, it depends on how the space on the Idris is classified.  IF it's 1 hangar space, and works similar to the current hangar module, then it should hold either 1L, 1M, or 3S per bay.  Redeemers are classified as L; but that thing packs one hell of a punch.  However, it would depend what the ships in the escort are - If there are redeemer escorts, then there's no need for storing one in the Idris.

The the spinal mount for the Idris-P, afaik CR mentioned that it should be possible to retrofit the railgun for the P.

[Justin Tolerable]

Yeah, current thinking is that we can fit the railgun.  Although I'm not sure how many capship fights we'll be picking.  Actually, I have no idea at all, come to think of it!

I'm afraid the hangar space on the Idris doesn't work like the hangars we have at the moment.  Last info from Erin was that they're a physical size and it'll fit what it'll fit.  That makes sense - the hangar deck would have to be enormous for one of those to fly out the front of an Idris.  Don't get me wrong, If one of those does end up fitting I'll be delighted.

I'm coming around to keeping the Superhornets.  They pack a big punch and we can have more of us out flying if that's what people want to do, given they have two seats.  Your point about the auto defense hardpoints on the Phoenix is a good one.  The 890 has one too, if we bring one or two of them along.  Plus we should have a handful of Freelancer MIS pilots to boost the missile count.  I was just considering having some M50s of our own - we could probably fit at least six of those in there (the benefit of having a constant hangar size instead the current 'bay' system).  I'm not sure I'd use one as a radar scout though.  I agree they'd be good to look ahead, but I can't imagine them being able to see as much as a tracker.

I see my tracker as just another hornet at the moment.  It can hold its own, but we have a radar dish to fit if we need it.

[Galatoni]

Ya. Those Pd turrets should be able to shoot down missiles as well np. This got me thinking. If anyone has played wing commander prophecy? You had missions where you had to destroy torps fired against the cap ship. Just another point for fast interceptors and Pd turrets. Hopefully the Idris will be have plenty - this would save personnel being ' wasted ' on that roe too.

[Gorion]

You might be able to shoot missiles at torpedoes too.

Used to do that in FL, proved efficient when too far away from torps.


Isn't the Karthu-al a scout?

[Galatoni]

I think so. Pretty sure anyway.

Can you imagine 4 hornets of any kind heading your way followed by an idris.
"brown alert!"

[Gorion]

Depends what that Idris and hornets are heading to..

[Justin Tolerable]

Depends what that Idris and hornets are heading to..

A poorly equipped, under-crewed pirate-owned Javelin?

I suddenly feel less inclined to spend $2.5k on one now.

[Galatoni]

I certainly think of you've managed to equip one to a point where is tactically viable then you've still got the issue of being potentially overwhelmed by numbers. When orgs are issuing slogans like "out auroras will blot out the sun " it just seems a bit... Cheap?

[TeaLeaf]

A poorly equipped, under-crewed pirate-owned Javelin?

I suddenly feel less inclined

....and this was where I came to as well.  I think there will be limits early in the game as to what might be usefully deployed - logically there has to be otherwise the longevity of the game is seriously undermined.   It would be awesome to find one of  those 200 Javelins fairly early in the game, board it and take it over!

I think the Idris is going to be at the upper end of the scale for us for some time, given our org size and intended play style.   If we were a hardcore military org with 500 members then I'd take a different view, but I'll bet there will be a number of Javelins at launch that will go out into space without a proper loadout and without a proper escort fleet.   It'#s Guaranteed to happen!

[Galatoni]

....and this was where I came to as well.  I think there will be limits early in the game as to what might be usefully deployed - logically there has to be otherwise the longevity of the game is seriously undermined.   It would be awesome to find one of  those 200 Javelins fairly early in the game, board it and take it over!

I think the Idris is going to be at the upper end of the scale for us for some time, given our org size and intended play style.   If we were a hardcore military org with 500 members then I'd take a different view, but I'll bet there will be a number of Javelins at launch that will go out into space without a proper loadout and without a proper escort fleet.   It'#s Guaranteed to happen!

The idea of find a Javelin early on in this way reminds me an awful lot of that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean where Capt. Jack is basically picking which ship to sail out of harbour with. With the Idris being how it is, its not a weak ship by any stretch, and i've a feeling you'll get a number of options in combat. Its small and fairly manoeuvrable (i'd hope!) so cornering it if it were pitted against a (larger) cap ship to put it under sustained fire would be difficult. This flexibility gives you an edge and more options than larger ships. You can 'hold-the-line' to allow either reinforcements to arrive, or for those under your protection to jump out. Larger ships cannot simply move away from combat. I think there are going to be a few broken hearts when the Captains of Javelins learn this the hard way when they charge into battle only to be swamped by smaller ships and torpedo boats and are unable to escape and are boarded.

On the other hand. It would only take a well placed Redeemer with the right marines to take an Idris. I think with practice and support, the Idris will be a real force to contend with, though. Total speculation all this of course - but fun

[Justin Tolerable]

Right, I'm keeping the Superhornets.  They may be heavy and slow, but I don't think I'd want to be the guy seeing them fly out the hangar at me.

Thanks for the discussion