I've just been watching the news...

[Vincentvega]

Originally posted by Gh0st Face Killah+Sep 4 2004, 11:45 AM-->

[0ni0n]

Originally posted by Gh0st Face Killah+Sep 4 2004, 11:45 AM-->

[Phog]

Why didnt they have more police on the streets holding the locals back? I know that the parents are worried about their children but running around carrying weaponry makes them just as much a threat as the terrorists. The parents should not have been able to run in through that hole and i think thats where the whole situation went out of control. Even riot police should have been called in to hold them back. I know for a fact that if this happened in the UK, there would have been no locals or civilians in the area as the Army would be surrounding the the building keeping it secure.

[Anonymous]

OK let me explain where my comments come from:

1. In the past 5 to 10 years Terrorist demands have become more serious and the tendency for negotiation to work has been reduced - in short they mean what they say.

2. As a consequence of 1 a plan should have been in place to cater for the eventuality that the terrorists would turn on the hostages - there's not much evidence of Stockholm syndrome these days.

3. The SF guys have a difficult enough job without worrying about who is running around in the area - everyone who was not essential to the containing of the situation should have been well back and cordoned off.

4. In any situation like this it is imperative that you put yourself in the position wher you totally control the situation and can drive it in the direction you need it to go. This is to give you the best chance for success.

IMHO none of the above was carried out by the guys running the operation.

[OldBloke]

Don't let the performance of the Russian forces cloud this issue. They acted, or to be more precise, reacted in good faith.

The simple fact is a bunch of total nutters herded a large number of civilians together, the majority of them children, surrounded them with high explosive, denied them water for two days and then tried to slaughter as many of them as possible.

Totally incomprehensible.

[A Twig]

I would like to point out, that many deem a successful anti-terrorist mission to be the apprehension or elimination of the terrorists. Safe rescue of the hostages is secondary.
Therefore, in purely strict harsh cold objectivity, it was successful.

[Phog]

Well to be honest, it was a very unsucessful sucess if you catch my drift.
I wish i was there for the beating of 2 of the terrorists that escaped, they deserve everything they got.
Why children? Theres no real word to descibe it.

[Moment]

there is Phog.....more than 1...

sick
evil

but dont really want to think bout it.. just makes me feel horible seeing them kids after it

[target]

The hardest thing for any military operation is going against an opponent who is not afraid to die (and in many cases, looking to die and take as many others with them).  It is made significantly more difficult for the military forces when non-combatants are involved (especially children).

Anyone who places C4 plastic exposive surreonded by nails and ball bearings above the heads of kids, isn't doing it for show - they intend to use them to create massive carnage.

Yes the Russian troops could and should have controlled the area better, but hey if it were your kids in there what would you do?  

But please take nothing away from the bravery of those Russian troops who were using their bodies to protect the kids from the incoming fire from the terrorists.  Going into a close quarters battle where you know the enemy is willing to die is no mean feat, and yes it is a horrendous shame that so many innocents died, but if the Russians hadn't reacted how many more would have died?

My 2p

[Thulsa Doom]

Originally posted by target@Sep 6 2004, 09:53 AM
The hardest thing for any military operation is going against an opponent who is not afraid to die (and in many cases, looking to die and take as many others with them). It is made significantly more difficult for the military forces when non-combatants are involved (especially children).

Anyone who places C4 plastic exposive surreonded by nails and ball bearings above the heads of kids, isn't doing it for show - they intend to use them to create massive carnage.

Yes the Russian troops could and should have controlled the area better, but hey if it were your kids in there what would you do?

But please take nothing away from the bravery of those Russian troops who were using their bodies to protect the kids from the incoming fire from the terrorists. Going into a close quarters battle where you know the enemy is willing to die is no mean feat, and yes it is a horrendous shame that so many innocents died, but if the Russians hadn't reacted how many more would have died?

My 2p

I see it the same way

[Anonymous]

An after the event analysis by BBC

Ooops, spelling

[target]

An after the event analysis by BBC

An interesting read, but I feel it is very easy for an academic to pick fault with any military operation in the cold light of hind-sight

[Anonymous]

Believe me, it is even easy for the military to find fault with a military operation in the cold light of hindsight.

To be fair this guy is from RUSI and they are pretty well respected as analysts even by the military.

[target]

Fair point