Druid 2.0.3

[Bob]

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Druids
-  Due to various talent changes, all Druids will have all their talent
   points refunded.
-  "Feline Swiftness" has been renamed "Feral Swiftness". The dodge %
   increase now also applies to Bear and Dire Bear Forms.
-  "Improved Moonfire" has been reduced to 2 ranks, for a 5/10% bonus.
-  "Insect Swarm" has had its damage on all ranks increased. The mana
   cost of ranks 1 and 3 has been increased. The mana cost of ranks 4,5
   and 6 has been decreased.
-  "Nurturing Instinct" now grants its benefit at all times, but the
   bonus has been reduced to 25/50% of Strength.
-  "Improved Starfire" has been renamed to "Celestial Focus" and now
   also increases the chance to resist casting pushback when casting
   "Wrath" by 25/50/70%.
-  "Blood Frenzy" benefits have merged with "Primal Fury".
-  "Improved Leader of the Pack" has been reduced to 2 ranks for 2/4%
   total health healed.
-  "Pounce" no longer requires the druid to be behind the target.
-  "Barkskin" is now usable while stunned.
-  Druids now need substantially less agility per dodge.
-  "Dire Bear Form" armor bonus increased to 450% and health bonus
   changed to a 25% percent health increase instead of a flat increase.
-  The Health bonus of "Bear Form" has changed to a 25% percent health
   increase instead of a flat increase.
-  "Swipe" has had its threat bonus multiplier removed.
-  "Maul" has had its threat bonus multiplier changed to a flat value
   similar in threat per time to "Heroic Strike".
-  "Regrowth" has had its mana cost reduced by approximately 18%.
-  "Tree of Life" healing bonus now increases the healing received
   by your party members instead of the healing dealt by your party members.
-  The "Tranquility" base amount healed per second has increased by
   approximately 273%. The radius of effect has increased from 20 yards
   to 30 yards. Mana cost has increased by 40%. The Cooldown has
   increased from 5 minutes to 10 minutes. The Duration has decreased
   from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.
-  "Mangle" will not stack multiple copies from multiple forms or
   druids anymore. This was never intended behavior. The percentage
   modification on bleeds has increased from 25% to 30% and "Mangle"
   now increases the damage from "Shred" as well. In addition, "Mangle"
   will now benefit from the damage boost from "Tiger's Fury".
-  "Enrage" will now show up in the combat log and in floating combat text.
-  "Lifebloom" will now correctly consume clearcasting.
-  "Predatory Instincts" has had its tooltip adjusted to indicate it
   only works in feral forms, and that it increases damage by a percent,
   not damage bonus by a percent.
-  If a spell is resisted, it will no longer break stealth.
-  "Tree of Life's" bonus healing aura will now reactivate correctly
   when "Banish" wears off.
-  Shapeshifted druids will now be able to speak to npcs while
   shapeshifted.  Source

So, what do the rest of you guys think about this?

I guess "Druids now need substantially less agility per dodge" at least are a good thing, and also that Mangle now works with Shred as well.

That armor increase/HP decrease I'm not really sure how that'll effect us...  Like will the reduced HP even out with the increased armor, or does this weaken us?

And when it comes to "Shapeshifted druids will now be able to speak to npcs while shapeshifted"... What about making us able to eat/drink/use potions while shapeshifted instead... That would have been far more usefull :sideways:

[Sandrion]

That armor increase/HP decrease I'm not really sure how that'll effect us... Like will the reduced HP even out with the increased armor, or does this weaken us?

There is no HP decrease Bob. Currently we get a fixed amount of extra HP in bear form (in addition to the HotW stamina increase). This was changed to a 25% HP increase so it scales with gear. This used to be 40% in the previous beta patch (which was a bit too much); maybe you confused it with this 'nerf'?
 
 
This list contains mostly fixes and stuff we should have gotten last patch.
-Shred is no longer 'obsolete', since it's affected by mangle now.
-Pounce has become more usefull.
-Mangle got slightly buffed.
-More armor.
-More health.
-An incredible amount of extra dodge (due to the new formulae and the 4% dodge talent).
On the other hand there are some things that are sad as well (of which the first two where absolutely nessecary):
-The idols nerf (they're near useless now, but I get why they did it).
-Imp.LotP is down to 4%. 6% was a bit overpowered since we have such a shitload of health.
-Druid threat got totally and utterly obliterated (it sucks donkey balls compared to how it was) :ranting2: . I'm pretty ****ed about this, since I don't quite get it why they changed it :unsure: . We where 'out-tanking' warriors in 5 man dungeons, yes. They should be buffed with some multi-target threat ability, because they are lacking in that area; we where 'fine'. Pretty dumb last minute change, as this is fundamentally changes the way druid tanking works. It won't be really be tested now either, since the expansion releases on such short notice. They just had to nerf something didn't they :sideways: .

[Neff]

don't quite get it why they changed it :unsure: . We where 'out-tanking' warriors in 5 man dungeons, yes. They should be buffed with some multi-target threat ability, because they are lacking in that area; we where 'fine'. Pretty dumb last minute change, as this is fundamentally changes the way druid tanking works. It won't be really be tested now either, since the expansion releases on such short notice. They just had to nerf something didn't they :sideways: .

Sorry to bash you, but you are SUPPOSED to lack something, warriors are tanks for a reason, you cant have both.

[Nefertem]

But we all want both :norty:

[Vargen]

They fixed a lot of things that I was ****ed about in the last patch. But then they go and totally mess up the way aggro works for the druid. I'm guessing it doesn't scale with gear at all anymore, or at least that is how it looks. Let's hope we don't get out tanked by pallies now

[Sandrion]

Sorry to bash you, but you are SUPPOSED to lack something, warriors are tanks for a reason, you cant have both.

Warriors aren't just tanks either, they are generally accepted as a DPS class as well. They need to spec for it to be effective. For hybrid classes this is even more so, we can't be good at everything and we don't want to either. Speccing feral means you'll do very little magic damage, you comprimise on healing and vice versa. Are feral druids and protection pallies supposed to be worse then a DPS warrior when it comes to fullfilling a role they are specificly specced and geared for?
 
Warriors should be the number 1 tanks, definately I agree with you on that. However Druids and Pallies that spec for it are supposed to be as good, but different. Our scaling aggro was one of the things that defined our way of tanking, it was what made us different. What Blizzard did was change the mechanics to resemble those of a Warrior, making us equivalent at this point. This is the thing I don't get and I'd like to hear the dev's comments on this, because it 'conflicts' with what they have been saying in the past :unsure: .
 
Druid threat was borderline overpowered, absolutely. We generated shitloads of threat and it scaled very well. I would have had no problem with it if they'd toned it down, but fundamentaly changing game mechanics and detroying our unique features just ****es me off a bit.
 
Blizzard wants every spec to be wanted in raids. Currenly the hybrids are most often pushed into the healing role because they are not considered to be 'as good' as the other classes at fullfilling any other role. This has several causes; end game design, itemization and abilities/talents are the ones Blizz could do something about and they did. The whole role stereotype thingy got blurred, which is definately a good thing. The people fullfulling certain roles in a raid should be picked on bases of their preference and skill, not on the class they play. Some warriors don't want to tank but DPS, sure they're melee specialists so go ahead. Some shamans don't want to heal but do magic damage instead, they can do that very well so why not? The same goes for every class that can do more then just one thing. The min-max mentality will always be present, but at least it won't be the same class that is the best for fullfilling a certain role in every single situation anymore. Every class received something that made then unique and different.
 
I hope this clarifies things a bit. Although I still think warriors could use some love from Blizz :huggy: . This nerf didn't solve their issues.
 
 
With regards to the nerf, I don't have any exact numbers yet on how bad it really is. Maul was our main aggro skill, but that got changed to a heroic strike style rage dump :sad: . Swipe is still 'fine', it no longer has the 175% threat modifier, but it's damage got increased considerably. So no real loss there. Lacerate should be our new main threat skill, but that doesn't work on many mobs (bleed immune undead/elementals/...). We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. I still expect our threat generation to be ahead of warriors, since we do a lot more damage while tanking. The question is, but what margin?

[Bob]

This is the build I put together just now before I entered Outland, just did it in a hurry, cause I'm eager to get going
Looks ok?

Just one question: now that our aggro has been nerfed quite much compared to what it was, could it be worth it putting some (perhaps all 3) points in Feral Instinct?
Perhaps take 2 points from Shredding Attacks and 1 from Predatory Instincts (just while waiting for more points while I level :flirty:)?

[Sandrion]

This is the build I put together just now before I entered Outland, just did it in a hurry, cause I'm eager to get going
Looks ok?
 
Just one question: now that our aggro has been nerfed quite much compared to what it was, could it be worth it putting some (perhaps all 3) points in Feral Instinct?
Perhaps take 2 points from Shredding Attacks and 1 from Predatory Instincts (just while waiting for more points while I level :flirty:)?

Those are the old talent trees Bob. Blizz hasn't updated them on their website yet I guess. The ones on wowhead are up to date.
 
And on the aggro question, you'd probably want to keep the points in shredding attacks, since Lacerate is 'supposed' to be our new threat skill. I don't have any exact numbers, but appearantly we're now generating around the same amount of threat as a warrior. So the +15% threat talent finally became usefull. I'm not sure which talents I'm gonna sacrifice for it though :g: .

[Bob]

Those are the old talent trees Bob. Blizz hasn't updated them on their website yet I guess.

Think I've just simply copied the wrong  URL... :doh:
Here is the correct one (also updated in the original post).

[Bob]

So the +15% threat talent finally became usefull. I'm not sure which talents I'm gonna sacrifice for it though :g: .

Well, one option is to just wait till you level and put the points in than (or just borrow some points form another talent while leveling).
Originally I thought about a 0/41/20 build, but if I go for 0/46/15, I'll be able to get all 3 in Feral Instinct, and I can also fill up the remaining 2 in Predatory Instincts :g:

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Im almost the same build as you Bob ..I have taken your word on how good it was and ya know somthing ya right Any tallents from now will be put into resto as I still end up healing in partys.. So far i have found if you have a sensible group and a set of healing kit being feral is workable:clap: