DKP in kara

[Othbarty]

I think this is something we should get sorted ASAP. We should have two ppl sorting and updating the dkp, one main and one alternate if the main cant attend or get rotated out of the group.

I would love to be one of them, but unfortunatly, i do not know how much i can attend in the nearest future, and i am (hopefully) starting to work full time after the summer, so im not sure what i can or cant do then, but time will tell, wont it?

[Bob]

First problem, as you said, somebody needs to actually do it. Now I'm done with my exams in a week now, and I do want to get to some raiding than, but as I'll be moving in about a month, probably be going between Trondheim and Ã...lesund a bit, so it's hard to tell how much I'll be available.

Secondly, I think we had a brief discussion about DKP in another thread (can't seem to find it now - haven't looked that closely though) - I don't know if we reached a final decision, but I think at least almost landed on that we'll just put it on hold, at least for Karazhan.
The reason for that, is that since Karazhan is only a 10-man raid, there will mostly be (in average at least I suppose) only one or two persons that would want an item that drops (heck, on the very first time we were there, two items were even disenchanted!). So with this in mind, I think DKP will kinda be an extra workload for the officers that really ain't worth it in the long run.

At least this is my thoughts this early in the morning - woke up 30 minutes ago, still a bit sleepy :narnar:

[JanuZ]

"the job of a loot system is to regulate access and distribution of highly-desired items that are in short supply relative to the demand for them."

Quoted from EJ forums in a thread about DKP systems.

This is not the case in Karazhan since there will seldom be more then 2rollers and supply will soon be more then 1epic per raid member in a single week. Closest thing you will come to a fight about items will be cloth caster items seeing as we have been going with 4-5casters. But still only 2rollers for the leggings from Romulo and Julianne.

Only thing that might be worth putting DKP on would be the T4 tokens but if we would have killed Curator last week it would have been 2pallies rolling, 2warriors and a priest rolling or the DPS rolling and seeing as almost everyone prefers spellfire/shadowweave over the T4 gloves it might have been defaulted to Theoline and i think it is the same for the T4 helm where those with Battlecast/spellstrike will not be rolling on the T4.

A full Karazhan clear yields 23epics(not counting the mini boss) if that was split in 2raids where we have 2people changed in for a new raid everyone except 1 would get 2epics per week. Currently it is just 8 out of 13people that get one but that isn't close to the demand as it was like in the start of Molten Core where we got 10epics for 40 people in 5weeks

[TeaLeaf]

We still use DKP for Karazhan in Genesis.  The reason for this is that particular items are less frequent drops and in particular since the patch a lot of items that would otherwise have been passed are now worth looking or are a positive upgrade.  

Personally I think if you stick to the roll system then you should also add a 'one per run' type of rule to avoid someone turning up for the first time in 8 weeks and then walking off with the prime loot from all the bosses in one evening - that'll really **** off the regulars if that happens!  If you introduce a one item per night system (or similar) then you get a new problem of people passing on items early in the raid in the hope of getting theirs later - this does not help the raid.

If you put a DKP system into place then some problems are removed and others introduced.  A zero sum DKP is pretty straight forward, there are parsrers to minimise admin work on it and it means new members still get a chance to get loot.  1 DKP per hour of raiding and DKP cost of an item based on the item level and stats (mods exist for this).  Nice and simple to run, everyone then knows that their particular investment of time has been noted and that their loot turn will come.

Whichever system you use it will also need some common-sense applied.  In Genesis there have been a few occassions when we have had to force an upgrade - ie allocate loot to someone who has not asked for it in the loot channel.  People are stupid and greedy when it comes to loot and you often need to force an item to someone to benefit the raid and the guild.  Our latest one was a 'dps' warrior who did not take an upgrade to their off-tanking equipment (a huge upgrade) - we had to refer back to him, ask to see his current item and then awarded him the item and deducted the DKP as it took him from a crappy green to a well-specced epic.  

The officers also need to apply some common sense on loot as to what it will be used for and apply a priority.  Is it RAID use, general PVE grinding use or PVP use?  We have this slightly bolloxed imo in Geneiss - we currently on;ly ask if for PVE or PVP use and prioritse PVE use.  Imo you should ask anyone interested in the item to state either Raid, PVE or PVP use.  This avoids problems with say a raid melee DPS class losing an item to a raid tank class for their 'wannabe future spec', or a dps caster losing an item to a healing class for their 'grinding/pvp' set.  You can apply this priority to rolls or to DKP, it does not matter, but THE single priority should be the benefit of the raid.  If people want to buff their non-raiding kit then fine, but it should not be at the expense of an upgrade to a member of the raid team.  You raid to succeed and get loot, so Raid use has highest priority.  IF PVP or grinding spec is an issue then go play PVP and get the PVP rewards, you can solo that and do not need ot raid for it.

At the end of the day the choice is yours, but I would probably go to a zero sum DKP system with an officer-led priority system using Raid/PVE/PVP use as the stated options for members.  Karazhan has a lot of really nice loot in it now and it would be a shame to see efforts wasted due to some petty squabbling from members if things get out of hand due to no system being in place.

TL.