phase 3 - yogg

[Limps]

I saw the video and it looks like we can go either way on dps but whats important is also to have all dps sortet so every one is on the right target.
If we go with melee (portal group) on the adds beside the boss then the boss should get some extra damage from it, and the buff to yogg will come if the adds are to slow dps's but it should not be a problem with all the good melee and maybe have a couple of ranged aoe them, main thing is to get down down fast.
If it is ranged that are on the adds i think easy we can take dps away from the adds and on the boss.

Look at this site http://www.wowwiki.com/Yogg-Saron_(tactics) to see what debuff and buff are casted it very helpfull, if i understand it correct if the adds are 20 yards away from the boss "Empowering Shadows*" will not heal him if it comes wich it should not, so maybe a good idea to use ranged. but i wonder if ranged could stand with their back to the boss and dps them, if the tank move them longer up.

* "Yogg-Saron will cast this buff in phase 3 on any Immortal Guardian whose HP has gone low. He will, however, not cast it immediately but first cast Shadow Beacon on an elligible Immortal Guardian to announce Empowering Shadows. If that guardian is then not killed within 10 sec, Empowering Shadows will be cast on it healing everything in a 20 yard radius of the guardian (i.e. any remaining tentacles, other guardians, and possibly even Yogg-Saron) for 750,000 over 20 sec per buff."

From what i can see the yogg have no spell other then "lunatic gaze" that takes damage from people ranged or melee.
But if the adds are tanked by the boss they need to be pulled 20 yrds away when beacon hits them so that the boss dont get healed.

"The healing Guardians receive can be reduced by a rogue with Wound Poison and Fan of Knives."

[TeaLeaf]

Re Empowering Shadows

Afaiaa this is an ability you only need to worry about if you do not have Thorim assisting.  In normal mode the adds should be going down quickly enough to never see it.  Tbh I have never seen it in normal mode at all and have only ever seen it in the couple of YS+0 tries I have done, so I would not worry about it.

Yogg-Saron will cast this buff in phase 3 on any Immortal Guardian whose HP has gone low. He will, however, not cast it immediately but first cast Shadow Beacon on an elligible Immortal Guardian to announce Empowering Shadows. If that guardian is then not killed within 10 sec, Empowering Shadows will be cast on it healing everything in a 20 yard radius of the guardian (i.e. any remaining tentacles, other guardians, and possibly even Yogg-Saron) for 750,000 over 20 sec per buff.

If you burn the Immortal Guardians all down quickly and have Thorim helping (who will kill the Immortal Guardians at 1%) you will not have to deal with Empowering Shadows possibly healing Yogg-Saron. If you're doing hardmode without Thorim, the Immortal Guardians will not die and need to be tanked at least 20 yards away from Yogg-Saron.

Re YS DPS
We have always tanked the adds right next to the boss so that YS picks up splash damage from all the melee.  We assign usually (irc) 4-5 ranged people to go on the boss only, everyone else goes adds as prio.  It's a case of checking the time remaining, YS' remaining health and then adjusting the number of dps on YS to make sure you beat the enrage.  Clearly there is a balance to be struck though as if you have too few remaining on adds then they will back up and quickly become a problem which you can never allow to happen.

One trick to making this fight a lot easier is for your portal group to become seriously good at their job.  Usually when learning the fight the portal group needs a heroism during their best portal phase to get the brain down to 30%.  Once they are up to speed (& dps) they can do the portal rooms and get the required dps without the need for a heroism during P2.  This leaves you a heroism for the start of P3 which makes a serious dent in the dps requirements for that phase.

Gandalf's linked video says it all, but also mentions the 2 ways of handling the adds.  If you plan to dps the adds further out then you need to ignore the way I have described above.  However I would strongly recommend the adds are in melee range of YS both for splash damage from melee and also for safety reasons.  The safety aspect is that if you line up your group like this:

Yogg-----Ranged/Healers--------Melee--Tanks---Guardians

^^in this configuration you force 90% of the newly spawned adds to run directly through/past your healers in order to get to the tanks (unless your tanks run huge distances to get the new adds).  It also requires you to never be behind on add dps or the tank will not have time to release and taunt in the new add and it puts more pressure on tank sanity as they will spend more time facing the boss during travel to and from incoming adds.

I much prefer this positioning:

Yogg--melee/tanks--Guardians---------------Ranged/Healers

The advantages as I see this it are:
-a dps increase on Yogg through spash damage from melee
-all new adds head for the healers who are stood towards the outside of the room.  This leads to improved tank sanity as the tanks never have to face Yogg as 95% of new adds will have to run past the tanks when heading for the healers and can then be taunted off to the melee camp.  You might get one or two spawn closer to the melee camp, but again these are easily taunted when the tank is not worry about sanity issues.

In both strats healers face away all the time and clump up.  Typically we have one resto druid with a secondary priority to heal the healer/ranged camp.  All other heals go into melee range usually via the MTs (chain heal, PoM, Holy Light splash heals within 8yds etc).   Warlocks/Shadow priests can face away most of the time anyway as they have several attacks which do not require them to be facing the target.  Only the ranged need to worry about sanity and that's simply a case of watching the ability CDs and turning away once the CD is up to wait for the ability cast, then resuming dps.

[Limps]

Re Empowering Shadows

Afaiaa this is an ability you only need to worry about if you do not have Thorim assisting.  In normal mode the adds should be going down quickly enough to never see it.  Tbh I have never seen it in normal mode at all and have only ever seen it in the couple of YS+0 tries I have done, so I would not worry about it.



Re YS DPS
We have always tanked the adds right next to the boss so that YS picks up splash damage from all the melee.  We assign usually (irc) 4-5 ranged people to go on the boss only, everyone else goes adds as prio.  It's a case of checking the time remaining, YS' remaining health and then adjusting the number of dps on YS to make sure you beat the enrage.  Clearly there is a balance to be struck though as if you have too few remaining on adds then they will back up and quickly become a problem which you can never allow to happen.

One trick to making this fight a lot easier is for your portal group to become seriously good at their job.  Usually when learning the fight the portal group needs a heroism during their best portal phase to get the brain down to 30%.  Once they are up to speed (& dps) they can do the portal rooms and get the required dps without the need for a heroism during P2.  This leaves you a heroism for the start of P3 which makes a serious dent in the dps requirements for that phase.

Gandalf's linked video says it all, but also mentions the 2 ways of handling the adds.  If you plan to dps the adds further out then you need to ignore the way I have described above.  However I would strongly recommend the adds are in melee range of YS both for splash damage from melee and also for safety reasons.  The safety aspect is that if you line up your group like this:

Yogg-----Ranged/Healers--------Melee--Tanks---Guardians

^^in this configuration you force 90% of the newly spawned adds to run directly through/past your healers in order to get to the tanks (unless your tanks run huge distances to get the new adds).  It also requires you to never be behind on add dps or the tank will not have time to release and taunt in the new add and it puts more pressure on tank sanity as they will spend more time facing the boss during travel to and from incoming adds.

I much prefer this positioning:

Yogg--melee/tanks--Guardians---------------Ranged/Healers

The advantages as I see this it are:
-a dps increase on Yogg through spash damage from melee
-all new adds head for the healers who are stood towards the outside of the room.  This leads to improved tank sanity as the tanks never have to face Yogg as 95% of new adds will have to run past the tanks when heading for the healers and can then be taunted off to the melee camp.  You might get one or two spawn closer to the melee camp, but again these are easily taunted when the tank is not worry about sanity issues.

In both strats healers face away all the time and clump up.  Typically we have one resto druid with a secondary priority to heal the healer/ranged camp.  All other heals go into melee range usually via the MTs (chain heal, PoM, Holy Light splash heals within 8yds etc).   Warlocks/Shadow priests can face away most of the time anyway as they have several attacks which do not require them to be facing the target.  Only the ranged need to worry about sanity and that's simply a case of watching the ability CDs and turning away once the CD is up to wait for the ability cast, then resuming dps.

Ya thanks for the info very helpfull the reason u see me talking about Empowering Shadows is because some1 said that if the melee was to close to the boss this ability will hurt them, but it will not and it should really never be up but it can happen. So as TL says its about position and cordinated dps, and melee on adds might be the way to go which we also talked about
So i really look forward to tuesday to try some new tactics, all we need to do is to tune the dps and positioning then we should be good

And yesterday we hit p3 without much problems. The first the times were bad in the portals but as we cordinated the dps on adds in brain room it went damn good best try we had over 35 sec time on the brain, so i think we can spare hero for p3 as we did not really use it in the good tries.