When I was just a little boy

[Benny]

PM sent

[smilodon]

Ohh good luck BFG. I know the pain of redundancy.... twice.

I don't do network, IT, nerdy stuff beyond keen amateur status but if anyone ever need a photograph of a bit of Cat-5 or their favourite server rack then I'm your man.

[Luminance]

When you're a jack of all trades the expectation is you won't be that great at any, but the sad thing is with the half arsed job many people do it's not hard to beat them at their own game...and I'm a lazy bugger. I shudder to think what a well motivated person could do...

As I've chosen to become a more physical working/operating/thinking bachelor instead of a theoretical one. I sort of have to be a jack of all trades.

Sure there are others around me that know things better or have better sense of the theory behind it. But the hard part is to convert that into a proper testing machine instead a wall of text. (In theory almost anything can be done).

I've noticed though, since I like to do anything myself, even if its not directly my task (I'd like to know more around it), to create that Fingerspitzengefühl or get a better understanding of it, that people start to see it as my job to do it. And i'm not just talking about sub 30s, but all ages.

Furthermore the new students (just 1-3 years younger then me [yes i was a young one]), really do demand a starting salary they deem fit and in my opinion are way less flexible them me (for example, I don't and didn't mind getting fresh pots of coffee during project meetings with other company's, or help out moving office furniture or fill excellsheets unrelated to my (internship) project or make a fuss when they request me to work weird hours, but they do anything they can to deflect such requests).

As for the demand of salary, I also think the problem started at school. There they kept saying, a new bachelor chemical engineer can easilly make 30-40k euro a year and companies will line up ... bla bla company car ... blabla exciting projects ... etc.

So even though I found that unrealistic (I googled the real salaries of the jobs and found that 25-35k euro is more realistic). But i was a bit disappointed when I started at 20k, no car, 6 month contract, not so interesting work etc. I did however take the job because of the potential it had. And I did everything I could to make them realize I can do better and they should invest in me. Which payed off. (Not directly due to crisis they laid me off like all other youngsters, but after 3 months and 22 months they tried to rehire me. The first one I deflected, but the 2nd time I didn't). Back at the company last December I retook a better position, got 10k per year more, now have a 12 month contract going after 2 smaller contracts, and am now closer to my goal and by "simply" doing more then just told (and with the luck of a new positions being created) in September I'm pretty much at the job I was going for all along (which is the job the students pretty much demand straight away, while not wanting to put in extra efforts, and maybe even slack off (extending lunch breaks and so) with the salary I'm making [1 even wants more o.O]).

[A Twig]

From my POV, I have similar feelings.

At my current place of work, being successful means you just get more work dumped on you to take up the slack from the other incompetents.  To get the job in the first place I taught myself all the skills I needed in approximately a week and a half. I had a two day handover from the old outgoing person, and was left to get on with it. None of the job has any real relation to my actual degree (electronics and communications engineering). However, a can-do attitude and willingness to bang in the hours during my first few months meant there was no drop in service levels.

Having worked here about a year, I have delivered cross departmental flagship projects that were continually being fobbed off, simply by getting on with it, rather than spending 8 hours a day in hand wringing meetings. My reward? I have to re-apply for my job and accept a pay cut.

So I am currently back out in the job market, I know what salary I need to cover my mortgage, food and bills, that's all I want. It's pretty low expectations after my 5 years at Uni doing an MEng. I am applying for jobs that often I am well over the basic requirements for, yet nobody is prepared to take a punt on a recent graduate. In the current climate everyone wants people who have "ben there and done it" but to only pay them peanuts. To help things along, the MOD just laid off 800 Electronic Engineers.

I have sent off in excess of 100 applications and begging letters to just about everyone going within a 60 mile radius. I have 2 interviews to show for it, both of which are only fraction better paid than I would get as a graduate manager at McDonalds.

Not all "young people" are incompetent, a lot of us are being tarred unfairly. In my current place of work, as a rule of thumb, incompetency is actually higher the older the staff are, and the longer they have been here. None of them can be fired due to frankly ridiculous "protected employment" HR schemes and policies, they just get shuffled sideways or re-located to new departments on the same wage, but with less responsibility.

If companies were run more efficiently, and people who couldn't do the job were able to be got rid off more easily, the workplace would be a lot healthier, as a culture of incompetency and mediocrity would not be allowed to thrive.

/rant off

[Benny]

So whaddya do Twig?

[Luminance]

Thats harsh Twig, hope you find anything decent soon.

[T-Bag]

Yeah, I know what you mean about being lied to as an undergraduate. I was told Physics is a subject where people will pay loads and hire anyone. To an extent it's true...if you do teaching (or maybe banking), but those are both a huge waste of a 4 year masters degree. I went to a careers fair and all the companies who were willing to employ physicists seemed to want to make you become an engineer first by making you sit through another masters degree in engineering first (paid, but not especially well), might as well have just done engineering...
So now I'm doing a PhD and expect employment prospects to be even lower at the end. I'm still a physicist, but by the end of it I'll be over qualified for many jobs and not qualified enough for others.

I completely agree with the statement that incompetent people have too much job security. It makes businesses completely uncompetitive and stops others even getting on the ladder. As for asking for too much money for a job, I've got no problem with that, if you don't ask you don't get. If they get the job they've sold themselves better than you have and that's something everyone can stand to improve on. Learn from it and try harder next interview.

[A Twig]

So whaddya do Twig?

By qualification I'm an Electronics and Communications Engineer. Major areas I studied are:

o   Digital Networks and Protocols
o   Satellite, terrestrial and mobile communication systems
o   Optical devices and communications systems
o   Space-born/Terrestrial remote sensing and satellite navigation systems
o   Operating Systems and Structured Programming
o   Computational Intelligence
o   Programming in JAVA and C
o   Digital Systems Design
o   Electronic Devices and Circuits
o   Principles of Radio and Optical Transmission
o   Optical Devices and Communications Systems
o   Electronic Control System Design

My Final Project was a dual band secure software based radio link for UAVs.

I currently however am working as a Web Services Co-ordinator, doing a bit of database, programming, IT support, web development, mobile application development and maintaining AV systems. Pretty much anything else remotely technical that goes on also gets thrown at me, as I am in a department of one, and come under the "leadership" of the Director of Marketing and Communications.

So the only actual bit of my degree that I've used is a bit of programming in JAVA, and my ability to write good technical reports. I taught myself enough PHP and mySQL to do the database stuff needed for an online seat planner project, brushed up on my web skills that I taught myself about 10 years ago. Along the way I have also picked up enough Photoshop and Illustrator skills to do the majority of web design work required.

Basically, I'll do pretty much anything, and as soon as I find I don't know something, I make sure I do know it by the next time.

[Benny]

Wow, anyone got a lid I can put back on this can of worms? People should be clear on a few things though, degree's are a proof of ability, not a level of experience. It shows a capacity to learn, not much more. I have a degree in engineering and use none of it. My original complaint and what triggered this thread was the apathy with which most people approach issues. There is a benign acceptance that things break and are broken, nobody cares or has any urgency around the fix, it's all about money.

I cut my teeth in supporting financial exchange houses, when it went wrong, you knew about it. Nowadays it's just another business, no accountability, no responsibility.

For those of you looking for jobs, by advice, which I'm sure you don't need is to tailor your CV, you can never be over qualified if you dress the CV correctly.