Rush on our server

[kregoron]

Both Naldo and Varg did, when it became apparent that the US side weren't able to come together as a team and mount a proper breakout attempt. Instead, most of US were doing the middle lemming route. Before Varg and Naldo switched, Bazer had already led me and I think it was Snokio out on a flanking run and capped C.

This game is as much tactics and strategy as it is anything else. A lockdown is a lockdown, and it can happen even when both teams have the exact same level of individual skill. It's teamwork that wins, not individual performance.
Trying to keep it perfectly fair at all times is, in my opinion, punishing teamwork and rewarding teams that break down. Player number advantages are automatically fixed by the autobalancer. Going over to the other team to even things up should be something all members ought to consider regularly, but not until it's absolutely clear that the other team is beyond turning it around for themselves.
At the point where you quit, that point hadn't yet been reached. At that point, it was a spawnkilling issue, not a balance issue. Once the spawnkilling was curbed, it became apparent that the balance was off, Varg and Naldo switched, and despite rallying and working together as a true team, we still lost it.

And if you'd listened to the comms, Naldo did make several attempts at changing sides, but every time he tried the autobalancer had beaten him to it, and the game wouldn't let him switch due to the crap playernumber algorithm not letting you give a team a player advantage. if it's 10-10 or 11-10, you can't change, because that would make it 9-11 or 10-11, giving the team you're joining the edge. There has to be a clear two player advantage, and even then you're gonna have to sit around and ninja the available spot before the autobalancer does it.

Ye Canals arent the best of rush maps (yeah i do liek rush when server is limited to less then 40 man)
But i fully agree on your post, people can say what they want, tactics and teamwork by a squad can change the battle, first round the attackers got owned, but then again, they were doing everything wrong when you attack on that map. Running like lemmings one by one up the choke point ramp...
Varg and several other dMw chaps moved back behind the objectives to give the attackers a chance of moving up...
Round changed and Varg, me and not really sure who the last was landed one the roof and had the defenders distracted while the team attacked.. its pretty simple and easy to do.
So why the heck bash people for knowing what they are doing, varg and naldo is probably our best players and they everything in their power to keep things as fair as possible, but lets not ruin their game either..

on the attacking from spawn note, if you sniping or mortaring from spawn, i will defend myself, i will snipe or mortar their butts till their either dead or moved out of spawn..

Sorry for misspellings/not making sense, got a crappy fever atm -.-

[Tutonic]

There used to be a time when a DMW server was something special. Somewhere where you could go and play to get away from the frag hunting, chaotic public servers.

When I play on our BF3 server, it feels no different from any other public server which is a frankly depressing state of affairs.

I'm not going to carp on about this any longer, as it doesn't seem to be having the desired effect. If this is the way you want the server to run, I guess I'll just go and play BF3 elsewhere.

[faust82]

I agree with you, dMw servers ARE supposed to be special, but the problems last night were threefold, and you only seem to want to address one end of them. You had a slight skill bias towards one team, a complete breakdown of teamplay and tactical thinking in the other, and a couple of all-out spawnrapers. With a situation that complex, there's no one-button quick-fix for it.

The spawnraping issue was a real pain, and should be clamped down on. Hard. If it weren't for that though, the balance issue wouldn't have been that huge, and everyone would have a nice time. This turned into a perfect storm, where it just happened that a couple of the best players I've seen in this game so far were on the same team that had loads of spawnraping pubbies. If one or the other hadn't happened, things would have balanced out by themselves. At least if some teamplay had occured.

Things did balance too. We had an excellent game for the rest of Seine after US broke out of spawn and our remaining Ãœberfraggers managed to change sides. US actually managed to pull a bit off the RU lead, but it was too big to begin with. We still had an excellent time trying, and I think the remaining pubbies and public regulars (saw a good number of them) enjoyed it as well.


The core issue here seems to be what dMw should do about stuff like this when (it's only a matter of time) it happens again. Had there been an admin presence on Seine, players could have been moved or eliminated. Without that option, we were powerless to influence things in any real way. Being unable to get our team to work together for a breakout, a team change for Naldo and Varg was the only option available to us, and we all could hear them bitching on TS when the autobalancer got in the way of them switching sides. I don't know how much else could have been done. Perhaps you have some insight for us there, but without that magic insta-change button, changing teams is a real pain. Additionally, if you've changed teams a couple of times, the game seems to quarantine you in your team for a couple of rounds, so even when there is an open spot on the others you might find that you can't switch.

It simply boils down to everyone (or at least gameleaders/admins) sitting down and agreeing on some set procedures for when the server goes to hell, and the admins being a bit more high-profile in-game. Knowing how to implement balancing measures when there's no admins available, and knowing when to do it, is vital for all of us if we're going to keep playing this game. I know I enjoy the game much more when the teams are fairly even and the battles get intense. (With intense I mean fast-paced and dynamic, not an all-out rocket&nade meatgrinder in the middle).

This being said, we can't have a situation where the desired outcome is constant 1-ticket wins. For one, we'll never get there, and even attempting it would probably just ruin the game. Team advantage will shift based on map, the people on, and the level of teamplay on each team. dMw's ethos is, as far as I've understood it, fair, tactical teamwork based play, which for me means that as long as a team has decisive wins without doing anything wrong, that team should be allowed to continue carrying it on to a win instead of instantly nerfing them. That's pretty much their reward for playing as a team. if dMw players are causing an excessive bias towards one team, that should be corrected at map-change when it's much easier to sum the numbers and have a little bit of a chat about how the round went.

[Vargen]

I agree completely with that. The dMw server should be something special. However making it something special is not done over night. So far the admins have listened to feedback from members and made changes to balance the games out and accomodate tactical play. For those of you that were on for the last bit of the Seine Crossing map around midnight last night, THAT is how the dMw server should be, always. Squads moving together, balancing classes and moving as a team to take objectives. It was a LOT of fun. I think TE was the only dMw not on the US team at the end, so I can't speak for him if his experience was the same.

We can make the server and the game fit in to the dMw ethos and make it a true tactical server and a place to escape the sillyness of most public servers. It is not something we can quickfix though, and we need to use a few days trying out changes one at a time. We all know what happens if you bring out the nerf mallet and smash it around too hastely. Lowering the player cap and upping the tickets seems to be a step in the right direction as I've said. Obviously there are other issues still, but I think we need a few days to have enough "data" to make the correct decisions on what to change.

One way of dealing with mortar spam, is to simply enable friendly fire. That way mortaring players have to be more carefull of where they lob shells. It will also impact aircraft, tanks and rpg/granades though. So this is a BIG change. If it were my choice, a tactical server should already have ff and be on hc just for the realism of it. But we have many members and many opinions to consider before the admins can make any major changes.

I say we try to be patient in these first few weeks of a brand new game. Take care of your fellow community members and try your best to make every game a fun experience. You don't have to win to have fun, as we clearly demonstrated on our last game of the night. Except for TE ofc, who won

I'd like to thank the admins also for taking everyones opinions seriously, and Ninja actually making the effort to come on TS last night to hear all sides to the situation. I can also add that I think one thing would help avoid these situations from the admins side, and that is incresed admin precense. The admins can't be on all the time though, so this is something a bit harder to achieve. But ofc we look forward to hopefully seeing admins on and hearing your sexy voices on TS with us for a few laughs.

[faust82]

FF cuts both ways. It will drive away some of the pubbies, but it makes the game waaaaay more tactical. You'll have to think before you send flying down a hallway.
You'll also fall victim to the idiots a lot faster. Guys who can't be arsed looking at the minimap or the ground before rushing over a claymore, then insta-punishing you for it.

[Penfold]

Can everyone please just take a moment to re-read the  Community Membership Standards and the General Gaming Standards threads.

Things have got heated on here but at the end of the day we're all fighting the same cause.

You've  all been here long enough to know  that we  always get teething problems with the introduction of a new  game. I know  that Ninja's been listening and commenting on the problems  when  presented and these are and will be addressed. Things such as  reducing  the number of player slots have been done in an attempt to get  the right  level of balance and that has worked. Prying into the admin thread I see that he and his team are also working on the other  matters.

Everyone has made valid points  and we're all trying to  get to grips with the game. There are some problems - some serious - but that's to be expected with a game which is so new. Infighting will solve nothing.

There are a few things though we should try and remember.

1. Language: Please be aware that we have a diverse age range of players all with different sensibilities. Swearing is not acceptable and not tolerated on TS or on server (especially before 9pm). We're all guilty of it but let's try to keep it nice.

2. dMw'ers *should* autobalance themselves if the game is one-sided   and if a nudge is needed to prompt that then so be it, it's not personal. We've had this   before on COD and BC2 where people are in the throes of a game and just   don't make that mental click.

3. Spawncamping is unacceptable period and should be jumped on. If there is no admin on then check Steam or report it back.

4. EVERY dMw player is an ambassador for our Community and has the rights and responsibilities that entails.

There's no reason why this game can't or won't work it will just take a bit of time to get the agreed rules and parameters sorted. In the interim, just give it a bit more flex than you would normally..... we'll get there.

[faust82]

I think we all agree on those points, as well as the Standards, but point 2 is a bit unclear. Autobalancing ourselves is all well and nice, no lack of clarity there, but at what point does one determine that the game has gone one-sided? I think we all agree that if the same team wins round after round, there's something wrong, but with BF3 team advantage can change in a heartbeat, depending on map and the level of teamwork. One team can be dominated for most of a round, and then turn things around by themselves by playing smarter. Do we start balancing mid-round if one team has been doing well up to that point, not only undoing the results of their teamwork but robbing the other team for the opportunity to turn it around for themselves? This is why I think we need to come to a common understanding of when we intervene and when we take a wait-and-see approach hoping that the game will balance itself.

[TeaLeaf]

Please bear with us and please keep posting your feedback as we WILL get there, but if you have something to say try to keep it non-personal.  If you have an issue with specific people, please address it to a Game Admin or the Game Leader in the first instance so that they can try to deal with the issue raised in a less flammable way.

@Faust: I think the point at which it is one-sided is determined by the dMw member on the whole.  Whether that is the same point as someone else might decide is open to question, but the diverse nature of the opinions makes us stronger as we can debate them and come up with sensible answers.

I'd also echo what Penfold said, the game is young, the admin tools don't always do what they said on the tin, and we're struggling towards establishing which modes work best with which player numbers on which maps.   With your continuing help & feedback we will get it right in the end.

[DrunkenZombiee]

Can everyone please just take a moment to re-read the  Community Membership Standards and the General Gaming Standards threads.

4. EVERY dMw player is an ambassador for our Community and has the rights and responsibilities that entails.

Pen hit the nail on the head there.

[TheDvEight]

Just a bit of feedback - I NOW LOVE RUSH! with the lower player limit on the server it is much more playable and i'm able to do some teamwork based game play with other dmw'ers! quick question is the ticket limit also increased as with the rush?

[Jewelz^]

Just a bit of feedback - I NOW LOVE RUSH! with the lower player limit on the server it is much more playable and i'm able to do some teamwork based game play with other dmw'ers!

Idd, tonight was awesome fun!