New application system

[Bob]

Sounds like a good draft :thumbup:


There is one issue that is not addressed that I really think we should take into consideration, and that is new members:

It is my opinion, which I also have discussed with some others (and it has also been pointed out by quite a few of those that have left in the recent time), that one of the reasons we have fallen apart the way we have seen the last month, is that SOG grew way too big - there were way too many new members joining, and it were difficult to maintain the old tight bonds that have been between the members (and also to include the new members in this).

I hope nobody feel hurt in any way by this, and if so I deeply apologize for that. It is not meant as something targeted to specific members in any way, it is just a general observation I have made.

We have many members left, and I assume also many that want to raid, so we shouldn't have any problems filling up one (probably two) raid group(s). Therefor I think we should freeze the admission of new members (close friends joining is another case, as usual) for a while, meaning, when a raid group (or more) are assembled, we should give it a decent amount of time to settle.

When we so choose to open up for new members again, I think we should change the application process. My main idea here is that it is not those who want to join that should submit an application, but they should need to get an existing (none-initiate) member to submit an application on their behalf. There are two main thoughts I have which I think this solution will address:

Firstly, we have in certain periods been over-flooded with applications. Some of them are the "random noob" that almost by pure luck ended up on our forum, others are "that-guy-that-has-already-submitted-10-applications", and you also have those applicants that actually are of interest for the guild (both as raiding- and none-raiding member). This vast amount of applications is for one quite tiresome to read, so I have very often found myself skipping that part of the forum (and I guess I'm not the only one, so what is than the use of such a system if almost none reads it anyhow), and I would also guess it leads to quite a lot of extra work for the Officers.

Secondly, I don't think the "sponsor system" works at all. The thought behind a sponsor, is that it should be somebody that really knows (doesn't need to be in RL) the applicant, so that we can have at least some kind of guarantee that it is a half decent person. Many that apply do it without a sponsor (and some don't even know anyone in the guild), and I would think that it's not an unreasonable guess to say that many of those that are sponsors in an application don't really know the applicant that well (e.g. someone you've been in a dungeon with once or twice, and he/she asked you to sponsor, and you thought "what the heck, he/she could heal/tank/DPS good enough).

My main point is, that you should really know the person you are sponsoring, and by doing it this way you actually have to think a bit about the person you're sponsoring. If you can't be bothered to write an application (or in our case, fill out a simple form) for a friend, you don't know the person good enough, or you don't care enough for him/here.


I think that SOG should be a guild where the members know and care about each other. You should of course not necessarily know everyone, but it should be in such a way that when new members join the guild, you can think "I've never seen that guy before, but I know that he is a close friend of Bastet (either in-game, RL or both), so I trust Bastet when he says it is an all right chap". That way I think we can maintain a close bond between our members.

So let us continue to make Silver Oak Guardians the best guild also in TBC, the same way as we have been before the expansion :clap:

best regards
Bob

Edit: this ended up quite much longer than I thought in advance, but I spent some time writing it, so I hope at least some read it and can supply some good comments to it :blush:

[Bob]

Just to continue a bit myself on this discussion: I think it is really important that we don't fall in the same trap as SOG did earlier; namely, we grew way to big.

On that list Shep made in the other thread, I counted 59 persons. Now I guess not all are aiming for raiding (I for once are not), but still - that's almost enough to fill two raid groups. And we will have to get some shamans (or do we actually 100% need all classes?), but also some more people will probably leave, so we should end up with around this number.

Already now, it's not hard to imagine that this might be a problem: we'll end up with folks not happy cause they don't get to raid enough (and all those other problems we had earlier), which again might lead us to recruit some more so we're enough for a 2nd raid group. That's a way we should not go, so I believe we ought to be very careful when inviting new folks into us.


Now as Gorion has mentioed in other parts of the forum, raiding is nothing we're aiming for yet - priority #1 is to build a strong fundament for the guild. But still, if we during that time get a small steady flow of members, we'll end up with too many folks when the time for raiding comes. So it's something we should at least have in mind

[Sheperdbook]

Application Comments:

I pretty much agree with all that you have said there Bob :thumbup:. Kind of reminds me when Secohan joined who I forged a good friendship with beforehand.

I do have to agree further that given the present scenario we should not be tendering applications; but as I said I'd like to review the numbers next week. Half the point for me putting them up there today so that we can start to gauge the trends in guild change. (62 might have been a little generous but we'll see hehe).

With the guy who has signed an application, we can postpone him but find out what lvl his shammy is atm and if necessary I'll go and spend some time helping him and see what I really make of him. Atleast that way no-one really loses out (well maybe a couple of hours of my time hehe).

My only real worry about your proposal is about ppl just harassing members to make them an application. Though it is simple to press ignore it will be annoying when some idiots endeavor to contact everyone in guild in the, very sad, hope of finding one person to make them an application.

Required Class Comments:

Though I don't think it is necessary to have all classes present at a single raid, we should have the flexibility to be able to present any class at a certain raid. (I'm sure that several instances will be significantly easier with certain classes present, much like locks with that mana-exploding boss back in AQ20).

Final Comments:

Really over the next month I think we just need to keep ourselves flexible and when enough peeps reach 70 we can start doing guild runs into the 5/10 man 'heroic' instances; just to keep everyone occupied if nothing else. Should also mean that when we do get round to 25 man raids that quite a few peeps will have some good kit ready.

Ok, I'm one verge of going to bed now...

[Bob]

My only real worry about your proposal is about ppl just harassing members to make them an application. Though it is simple to press ignore it will be annoying when some idiots endeavor to contact everyone in guild in the, very sad, hope of finding one person to make them an application.

Yes, I can see this might be a problem. But I also believe that the downsides with this suggestion is less than with the way it works today.
One possible way to handle this, can be that we urge the members to notice about people that nag around with many in the guild to get an application, and than one of us officers can contact the person and politely explain to said person why he won't be accepted as a member if he continues like that.

I'll continue the discussion about that shammy that applied in the other thread, to keep this place for the application system :flirty:

[Gorion]

yep, i totally agree with your points
 
regarding the application thing. well, it makes sense and so does the downside. but imo i think its for the better
 
so for the moment we should close applications, but we should check and invite that shammy

[Lucian]

Invite the shammy then close membership In terms of membership, I think we need to think ahead about how we want to structure our raid groups.  How many of each class etc...

[Gorion]

just spoke to the shammy yesterday, he needs to think about it now..