Sadako and KKND

Whitey · November 26, 2007, 06:45:11 PM

I think this is better discussed here, rather than in the PM's we've been sending. I have now been through the logs and they confirm the story I was told. I have spoken to both parties (on ventrilo last night), although KKND left half way through as he didn't like being told what he did was wrong and then sent me a PM telling me to remove his admin status. I'll recap for those not included in the PM's.

Last night on Boomer a muppet (Killumanati) joined and the server and TK'd KKND, at the beginning of the next round, KKND shot the player. Sadako then kicked KKND and the muppet from the server. Sadako then sent me a PM to tell me about the incident.

The admin events and general chat are in two different logs so I have merged them here:

QuoteL 11/25/2007 - 19:10:07: [atac.smx] [ATAC] Killumanati has 1/10 team attacks.
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:14: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_say (text Deliberate Team Wound will result in a kick!)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:16: [atac.smx] [ATAC] -=[dMw]=-KKND has 1/10 team attacks.
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:18: [atac.smx] [ATAC] Killumanati has 2/10 team attacks.
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:19: [atac.smx] [ATAC] Killumanati has 3/10 team attacks.
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:19: "Killumanati<435>" killed "-=[dMw]=-KKND<437>" with "ak47" (headshot)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:20: "-=[dMw]=-Luminance<402>" say "kknd don't!\]"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:22: "Killumanati<435>" triggered "Dropped_The_Bomb"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:22: "Killumanati<435>" committed suicide with "world"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:23: [basecommands.smx] "-=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><>" kicked "-=[dMw]=-KKND<437><>" (reason ""Away From Keyboard"")
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:23: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<437>" disconnected (reason ""Away From Keyboard"")
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:27: "Killumanati<435>" say "wow"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:30: "-=[dMw]=- Bk.<401>" say "huh?"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:36: [sm_super_menu.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> sent command "sm_kick "Killumanati" "Disrespectfull Behaviour"" to client console
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:37: "Killumanati<435>" say "he tking me"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:43: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><>" connected, address "213.84.242.254:60805"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:44: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><>" STEAM USERID validated
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:44: "-=[dMw]=-Luminance<402>" say "i'm sorry for that killu, thats not dmw policy"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:48: "Killumanati<435>" say "kknd is a tker"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:50: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><>" entered the game
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:50: "Killumanati<435>" say "please kick"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:10:53: [sm_super_menu.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> sent command "sm_kick "Killumanati" "Disrespectfull Behaviour"" to client console
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:11: "-=[dMw]=- Bk.<439>" say "heya KKND"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:11: [basecommands.smx] "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><>" console command (cmdline "mp_restartgame 3")
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:15: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438>" say "helo"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:23: "-=[dMw]=-Luminance<402>" say "kknd why did you lowered urself to that?"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:40: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_say (text Type MOTD in chat for the server rules. Read and follow!)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:11:55: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_say (text Not following the rules WILL lead to slay/kick/ban.)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:12:21: "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438>" say_team "did you kicked me mats.?"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:12:31: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_say (text Complete the objective AND play as a team!)
-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><> sent command "sm_kick "Killumanati" "Disrespectfull Behaviour"" to client console
L 11/25/2007 - 19:14:22: [basecommands.smx] "-=[dMw]=-KKND<438><>" kicked "Killumanati<435><>" (reason ""Disrespectfull Behaviour"")
L 11/25/2007 - 19:15:09: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_chat (text leave it KKND . I got it)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:20:49: [sm_super_menu.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> sent command "sm_slay "Killumanati"" to client console
L 11/25/2007 - 19:20:49: [basefuncommands.smx] "-=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><>" slayed "Killumanati<441><>"
L 11/25/2007 - 19:20:58: [basechat.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> triggered sm_say (text You were slayed for going out of bounds, please type motd in chat for the server rules.)
L 11/25/2007 - 19:21:56: [sm_super_menu.smx] -=[dMw]=-Dr Sadako<434><> sent command "sm_ban "Killumanati" "10080" "Disrespectfull Behaviour"" to client console

I'm not sure at what point Sadako explained why he had kicked him but it was done on voice comms, not chat (probably at the point KKND asked).

I do feel that a direct warning to KKND would have been better than a kick but I'm not sure if that would have sent out mixed messages when Sadako then kicked Killumanati for the TW's after KKND shot him. I've cut out the other parts of the log for clarity but it does look like there were a few others on the server going past signs and generally not following the rules.

Penfold · November 26, 2007, 07:52:20 PM

KKND should know better really imho and, although harsh, we know that Mats is very strong on admin'ing and will brook no mis-behaviour from anyone. (I know I've been on the sharp end of his tongue once or twice).

I know what you're saying Whitey about messaging KK privately but that could easily have lead to an accusation of double standards. KKND was in the wrong (doubly so as a senior CS admin). He knows and has stepped up to the plate for which one has to give him credit.

As to removing his admin as requested then obviously that has to be your call.

PEN

FWIW, Luminance is the one who comes out best of all reading those logs!

Bastet · November 26, 2007, 11:34:52 PM

Action taken is justified, looking at dMw admin standard (whiter then white).

Lumi's got his head bolted on properly since hes got a job. He might be worth considering putting through admin school (asumming he didnt go through yet, its late, and i cant remember where the post is :blink:)

Anonymous · November 27, 2007, 12:36:22 AM

My personal view is that both were out of order. KK really should know not to retaliate and Mats has an itchy trigger finger. I cannot think of any reason for a dmw admin to be kicked without a private chat first.

TeaLeaf · November 27, 2007, 08:40:12 AM

Quote from: BlueBall;214125My personal view is that both were out of order. KK really should know not to retaliate and Mats has an itchy trigger finger. I cannot think of any reason for a dmw admin to be kicked without a private chat first.

:withstupid:

TL.

Whitey · November 27, 2007, 08:47:08 AM

It was a judgement call that is difficult enough to asses now with plenty of time to discuss it. Should Sadako just have had a word with KKND and kicked the other guy (double standards), kicked both and look fair to the outside world (there were a few non-dMw people on) or just send another message and not kick anyone (could leave the door open to other TW's and an argument as they think we're soft). I've discussed the matter with Mats again last night and he thinks it was the correct call on his part given the circumstances on the server at the time. He did explain his actions to KKND in voice comms as soon as things had settled down on the server and he could join a team.

I'm not sorry to lose KKND from the admin team as he is prone to going off in the huff or losing his temper. Admin School "may" have helped him but I just didn't want to put him through it myself due to his reaction when things don't go his way and no-one else was willing to put him through.

Here is the PM I received from KKND after our discussion on Ventrilo (the one he walked out on):

QuoteWhitey can you take my admin status...
Cos i dont like that peeps sending you an pm bout stuff what happens on the server.
I think it's bit sneaky and i dont like it..
And surley dont like that i got kicked from the server by Mats...

He was more annoyed that he had been reported than he was about the kick. As this involved an admin, a post in the Admin section would not have been appropriate, so a PM was the correct form of notification.

As TL and OB are looking into this could one of you please post a reply to Blunt's thread in the CS Admin section regarding the outcome.

Penfold · November 27, 2007, 10:31:24 AM

Whitey and I were talking about this last night. Personally I would probably have not kicked either of them - metaphorically banged their heads together - and given them a last chance.

We know Mats has an itchy trigger finger and is obviously very adept at using his commands (last night he had banned people by the time I had opened the admin commands lol).

Like I said with the DA post, it has to be imperative that everyone is dealt with a fair hand as accusations of double standards would be very damaging.

I think Whitey has told Mats to calm down a bit on the server (?) He probably does need a guiding hand here as draconian is too soft a term.

I think KK has had his admin status removed at his own request - If that is standing then we need to change the RCON password I guess.

PEN

Whitey · November 27, 2007, 12:55:59 PM

Quote from: Penfold;214144I think Whitey has told Mats to calm down a bit on the server (?) He probably does need a guiding hand here as draconian is too soft a term.

I didn't tell him to calm down on the server, I told him that I thought a direct message to KKND should have been given. Mats tends to follow the Admin Standards to the letter (even in this case, he did give a warning before the kick) and picks up more issues than a lot of the admins who don't admin as regularly on the public server. He's quicker on the commands (as mentioned by Pen) which means that if he is on the server you will normally see the slay/kicks being done by him. In my opinion Mats is the best "public server admin" we have.

A post should be made in the CS Admin section in reply to Blunts, I would have liked that to have been from me but as my position has been undermined by the post saying OB/TL are looking at it, I would rather the reply came from one of you. (it would be good if this could be done today)

I hope I've made my opinion on this clear, this was an issue with CS Admins on a CS Server, I did think my actions were appropriate in this case (especially given KKND's attitude in the last few months).

The End...

Anonymous · November 27, 2007, 02:25:39 PM

Quote from: Whitey;214137As TL and OB are looking into this could one of you please post a reply to Blunt's thread in the CS Admin section regarding the outcome.

My mistake. I had meant it in the way that it was being looked at in general. I missed out your name Whitey and have now added it to my post for correctness - I wasn't trying to bypass you.