DKP - reasoning behind Tirkads comments

[Gandalf]

He pm'ed me with a detailed explanation of his comments, and it does make sense to me. However, as TL pointed out I believe the bidding system is self regulating and the best option for us.

Hi Gandalf, I just wanted to explain why i posted those suggestions. Back in TBC, i was in a guild called Loyalists. It was an hardcore guild and the main reason people were in that guild was becouse of progress and loot. The guild adopted the fixed prices dkp system, and it worked, even if not perfectly. However, they changed it to private bids system, and the atmosphere in the guild degenerated, becouse some members could get certain items with a little bid, due to the fact that very few members can use it. Take for example holy paladins, we are the only one that can use plate with spell power, but we can also use mail, leather and cloth. So you'll have tons of bids for cloths, a bit less for leather, even less for mail, and only a couple for plate (remember balmius last time on the druid/priest trinket?). The atmosphere in the guild degenerated becouse the cloth classes begun to bid on items that they evidently can't use or would not be an improvement, just to force others to make an higher bid. As you can imagine this is a very nasty situation.
This is why i suggested fixed prices, so everyone can be sure that they will be awarded equally for the same time spent in raids (becouse in the end dkp are just a way to track attendance and time spent in raids). Of course the prices that i posted there were just numbers to make an example, since weapons can be used by most classes and are the best way to improve your gear, while on the other hand cloth, leather, mail and plate are much more bound to few particular classes.
Thanks for your time,
Tirkad.

[TeaLeaf]

The way we deal with this is the (Loot COuncil) override.  ie act like a cock and Council wll overrule you and award loot elsewhere.  If any palas do this kick them, but I have never seen this happen in any guild I have been in.  That's also one of the reasons it is an open bid system, as it forces peopel to act like idiots inpublic which they are then less inclined to do.

[Gandalf]

The way we deal with this is the (Loot COuncil) override.  ie act like a cock and Council wll overrule you and award loot elsewhere.  If any palas do this kick them, but I have never seen this happen in any guild I have been in.  That's also one of the reasons it is an open bid system, as it forces peopel to act like idiots inpublic which they are then less inclined to do.

Exactly my thoughts too. I'm not really worried about the system as tonight showed it works really well.

[gijs]

i think the gear loot should only go to those that can use it the best..so if pally and shammy bid on Mail loot (wich has ghappend in past) it should go to shammy cos hes made for mail...pally is made for plate end of discussion. ofc if noone wants it it can always go to pally but at first its for mail users.

[Azunai]

I don't know... I would say that a piece of armor should go to who has that armor type as his primary, but on the other hand, a piece of cloth can have very good druid spellcaster stats on them as well, and a piece of mail can be very decent for a pally.

It's not oft that a pally likes a piece of cloth though, in my experience..

[gijs]

ofc i dont say they cant use it im just saying that piece of armor (take  mail for instance) is made for shammy's first and not for pally's.
 
Tbh i find i rediculous to see a pally with Cloth gear on but that just me.

[TeaLeaf]

I think it is one of those things you have to take a view on when it happens.  Where the bid is clearly wrong (or misintentioned) then Council becomes Loot Council and you question the bid and maybe overrule.  However there are situations where a bid on non-standard loot item is viable and justifiable.  For example:

Good bid:

There is a Best in Slot (BiS) bracer for elemental/resto shaman that is cloth.  Where the item is BiS & the stats are the stats used by the class then we allow bids.  So this item is bid on my cloth casters and ele/resto shaman alike.

Questionable bid:

There is a BiS item (I forget which slot) for dps warriors that is actually mail armor (not plate) that has intellect on it!  The warrior bid the highest but we discussed on Vent and the warrior agreed he would pass to hunters/shaman first due to the Intellect on the item.  This is what the Eluo Council would have enforced had he not concluded this himself as whilst it was a BiS item it had stats on that would not benefit him (Intellect).

Bad bid:

We had an under-geared holy pala (brother of the arms warrior mentioned above as it happens) in an alt raid who rolled on pretty much all & any cloth items as they were an 'upgrade' for him.  In cases like this where it is not a BiS item then his rolls or bids would clearly be discounted & ignored (which they were) where plate items would usually provide his upgrades.

Clearly in this situation where the loot would otherwise be DE'd then it is worth allowing a bid, but only where others do not want the item.


Bottom line is it comes down to being sensible and for DMR Council to make sure members continue to bid sensibly.