Vladics post

[KKND]

It a idea, and I like your waffling mate so no worries there.  I dont see either group as lacking in either, I want the option for people to move faster if they want to hardcore depending on how BG progresses.  I think the main thing here is how to deal with this statement and we need to sort out what to do about him.

I will move to the UK and slap him in da face!!!:)
I realy dont know what you must do with him,talk again and again?
You guys spent time with him bout things but it seems it doesn't matter.
Maybe one last time.....dunno

[Penfold]

/thought/
If you want to dump him but don't want to risk fracturing the group doing it from SWOTR Council then I (we) will do it from dMw's perspective and say we've made the arbitrary decision.

It's a bit of a fluff but I don't care if it puts things right and gets you out of an awkward situation.

[Grimnar]

I don't have much to say about this topic as most has already been said, and for myself i have the feeling as being (an inexperienced officer, and not the most social one aswell) i stayed out of this and let the "senior" officers / community leaders handle this.

But i know Vladic also from wow and know how he is etc. But in the RG raiding group is another person that is the same as Vladic and i think we have to take notice of that with handeling Vladic. It is Twisted i am talking about.

He is sort of doing the same as Vladic and i already needed to step in into a conversation in guild chat about his powerplay and RG going hardcore on their own rules etc.

He tried that in wow aswell and was very good at blaming other people for his actions.


I don't know if this should be in this topic but i felt i needed to share this info as i think it sort of the same.

[BrotherTobious]

Ice we are all the same level here mate so get stuck in cheif dont hold back

Ok so the idea of dropping vladic is a option but it does leave us with the issue of who will run the RG I have asked Varg to be back up but he is thinking about it.

[Penfold]

I've had a pm from Vladic

Understood, I may have conveyed my Idea's in the wrong tone etc, new less Blunt version online now, its about as nice as my writing can get, if it isnt up to standard this time someone is gonna have to proof read it.
Vladic

[Gortex]

Well I think dumping him out is an extreme measure to take but one that needs to be considered if this is to continue as it has been said we have dealt with this stuff for several weeks now.

His, and Twisted views are ones of a total selfish nature and is only interested in going on runs when there is something to gain from it. I think if it came to it and he is put into a reserve position and Varg leads it he would then not help out the other group because of no reward to him. However there is a point in this that we are all paying a subscription and should be allowed to play the game how we like, But when in a Social Gaming Community like ours it is just as important if not more to respect others, interact with them and have fun gaming while being successful at the same time. I feel this is something Vladic keeps forgetting or is not in his nature to do. I personally have not seen him log on once to help others through a Flashpoint of heroic run, and this is someone who is leading the raids and wanting to see how people play??? how can he know if he does not play with them?

(rant done)

On the plus side and this has been said several times he is good at once on the OP run at leading and giving good, clear and encouraging advice and tactics. Because of this I feel for the moment he should not be dumped from the guild or community. It might be worth giving him a warning, saying people are not happy with what he is doing in benefiting the few and thinking about himself all the time.

For the moment I would run the two groups separate to each other for the first few op runs and not think too hard about moving people around from group to group. Once experience and knowledge has been learnt we can start swapping people around and getting everyone involved.

I also like Jaz's point and we pick the team for the raid leader not the raid leader and possibly make this clear to all those on the raids that it is not his choice to make.

I have done a fair bit of raiding in my time and all really hard core raiding guilds have always had a very strict way of applications, try outs and requirements to make it into the main raids. I don't think we want to go down this level of strictness as it really does feel like being in a school or going for an interview rather than playing a game and is something I would not like our members to be subjected to. I also don't like his idea that if you do mess up or not up to scratch your banned for a month...... Am sorry this I will not stand for. I think saying something like "I don't think you’re quite ready for raids in hard mode yet, but here is some hints and useful help to improve. Or if I don't know go have a word and a practise session with someone who does know the class". Constructive and helpful

[smilodon]

Wise words Gortex. I've replied to his new post with some personal thoughts of my own. It's a better post, but still asks for the right to decide on an application. I certainly think his advice is worth giving a lot of weight to as he's best placed to know what the group needs and who is able to fill a specific role. But I'm personally very reluctant to pass over any actual power. Right to give us advice that we should act on, yes...... right to decide arbitrarily,no.

[TeaLeaf]

Just so Dark Council members know:

The ripples in the force about the Vladic issue have been felt in the dMw Council and by Penfold & me (as Head Admins) and we've been involved in chats with both Vladic & Toby about a week back, and with Toby and other dMw Council members throughout this week.  We're aware of the issue and have discussed possible solutions with Toby and he is currently mulling over the options open to him and hopes to reach a decision today.

Toby has the dMw Council's FULL support.   the dMw SWTOR guild is a strong one and will survive, so let's work together to ensure we keep the membership positive.

Also, in the spirit of keeping everyone aware, this was the post Vladic deleted as his response to Toby's 'Blue Group Sign UP' thread:

Red Group will Most likely be advanced to through Application Or Review request due to gear and skill requirement for Hard/Nightmare modes, also due to rotation there will be a set number of places available (too many people and Rotation sacrifices Progress and takes more time EG weeks to complete).

Vladic

To post something like that in the Blue Group Sign Up thread shows incredible immaturity and lack of empathy. :frusty:

[BrotherTobious]

Gents I have been thinking about it all night and after all that is said and done, I have decided to remove Vladic as Operation Leader, you know the reasons communication, he makes post like above and is stepping out of his role which then makes more work for us.  

I still feel he did great work in running the operations on the night the practical side, and that was never in question!

He will be told of this after the run tonight or tomorrow.  TL will be having the word as I am not around for then next couple of evenings.

I wanted to give you fair warning so that when the news hits we are ready.  I will write up a post saying that he no longer the OP Leader for Red Group.

This will give us a week to find a replacement, I am still waiting on the response from Varg I will drop him another message today to see what he feels as OP backup.  As he will be care-taking till  can get someone if he says yes.

So need your imput as who to ask in Red Group to take over as they are all ready to Hardcore?

Toby

[Penfold]

I think it's a good call and one we will support.

I haven't spoken to TL  now how we'l broach it but we may make it a dMw decision which would mitigate any SWOTR council involvement and hopefully make it less disruptive to the guild.

Update to follow......

[KKND]

Gents I have been thinking about it all night and after all that is said and done, I have decided to remove Vladic as Operation Leader, you know the reasons communication, he makes post like above and is stepping out of his role which then makes more work for us.  

I still feel he did great work in running the operations on the night the practical side, and that was never in question!

He will be told of this after the run tonight or tomorrow.  TL will be having the word as I am not around for then next couple of evenings.

I wanted to give you fair warning so that when the news hits we are ready.  I will write up a post saying that he no longer the OP Leader for Red Group.

This will give us a week to find a replacement, I am still waiting on the response from Varg I will drop him another message today to see what he feels as OP backup.  As he will be care-taking till  can get someone if he says yes.

So need your imput as who to ask in Red Group to take over as they are all ready to Hardcore?

Toby

Good call Toby!
It's a shame that it have to go like this so fare,i think if whe keep Vladic as OP'S leader at the end members will leave the guild wich is offcourse sad.( and that for one person).
On most post that he has made there was only one word that keeps coming up and that was ME.....
It looks like hes the most important guild member there is....atleast he thinks..

Like said above whe never see him online helping guild members with runs (To get there Gear)so they can be a part off the group that wanna do OP'S.
Hes only online when doing OP'S and thats it.
Good example is Sneaky...Vladic says in his post pure that Sneaky is crap (Thats how i read that).
Now whe do runs with Sneaky HM and i can tell Sneaky aint crap just bit low geared.

So dont jugde members bout their gear/skill if you never online or dont wanna help him to get it..
For myself im happy he be removed as OP'S leader,cos with his mentality whe better do without him.

Just my thoughts.

EDIT: Dont forget to change his Rank (Guild Details) after you told him his place!!

[smilodon]

I'll always defer to the community leaders but as a wishy washy liberal and all round appeaser I'm surprised. Then again I am not close to being privy to all the conversations etc that have taken place. So I ask this from a position of ignorance rather than disagreement, but have we had a really straight conversation with Vladic, basically such that if we gave him access to these forums he would read little that hasn't been said to him directly? Does he appreciate the concerns we have about his possible raiding-centric approach, private agenda etc? If not I think we owe it to any member of the dMw to be utterly candid and have that conversation first before we bin them. Of course as mentioned these conversations might already have taken place is TS, in which case I shut up

[TeaLeaf]

Yes he appreciates the concerns, to the extent that when friction between officers & Vladic were escalated to me.  I spent over an hour on TS with Vladic telling him where his problems lay and what he needed to do.  It was done in a fair manner and one in which I also laid some work at Toby's door (he was also there on TS) to ensure the support was there and that Vladic did not think the whole meeting was aimed at him (which in reality it was).   Vladic unfortunately has completely ignored what he agreed to during the conversation and has reverted to type.

I would also point out that he had a similar loot-wore-me-me-me reputation in WoW which I did declare to Toby before he was appointed.  That having been said, nobody else volunteered, which with hindsight might in itself have been a warning I guess, but it left Toby with Hobson's choice for op leader.