Fire build 21/30/0

[Snowstormer]

Calcu

Reasons for talents: I love blastwave in AoE-ing, another new nuke with a slowing effect is very usefull.

The 65% chance to not interurupt os great too, and higher range on spells helps alot with bosses which are moved around, like kurinnaxx. The crit-chance is kinda an aggr-magnet, but it also adds alot of DPS.

PS: I did this fast during a raid so excuse the typoes. kreuz wanted me to post my setup so we can coompair.

[Snowstormer]

To add, i did NOT respec, this is just a speculation to what i will respec

Feel free to discuss, We already dicussed some of em with Kreuz in-game.

Edit: Damn my spelling!

[Arkhon]

Heheh that was almost my "ex" build.
I spread the Burning Soul points in Impact and Improved Fireblast though.

When I get/got aggro in raids I abort my spellcasting anyways.
And I safe up fireblast for the quick finishers.

Fireball till they are really close, fireblast, frostnova, make distance, fireball, fireblast either finishes it off or most....

Otherwise I follow up with a Cone of Cold to make more distance again. By that time Frost nova has popped up again... rinse and repeat.


I left out Improved Scorch to get blastwave (love AEing) but I can see it viable as a low mana,
steady dps spam in boss fights, the added vulnerability is a + for that too.


I currently am useing a Frost build and kinda like it....
I miss Blast Wave horribly for AE dps though. : /

Arkhon

[TeaLeaf]

The problem with that kind of build is the aggro management or the lost DPS or the mana efficiency.  Fire is really nto well suited to good PVE participation and I woudl urge ANY Mage to look at a Frost/Arcane or Arcane/Frost build if they want to pull their weight in a Guild raid.

Try and 'make distance' when it's a Molten Giant!
Abort spellcasting?  Try it on Broodlord, you'd be dead already and would have wiped the raid!
Longer fights?  You have a problem as you ran out of mana real quick - if you think Ragnaros is tough on mana then you ought to try some BWL fights!

Fire is not the way to go if you want to contribute positively towards SoG's raids.  The Officers haven't said anything yet, but we have several fire mages in RG2 and we would urge them to reconsider and respec appropriately for PVE.

For PVP-biatches it's different, but then a fire spec PVP specialist will not be wanting to raid PVE and get those those phat epic loot drops, will they?

TL.

[Arkhon]

Ehrm... Tea...

"It was almost my ex build. "
As in: my build was almost the same: I am frost specced for raids now...

I had no problems nuking Molten Giants with fire spec, but what I did notice is that now that I switched to frost I have *never* had to use Evocation in any boss fight yet. And my damage output in overall has gone up, with less aggro from the mobs.

The real problem in MC is Ragnaros...
I am now 100% convinced that a fire build is totally unviable to be able to put him down.

If I add up to that the awesomeness of Iceblock in boss fights, I am willing to give up a bit of AE goodness.



Arkhon



PS.

Any advice on some easy obtainable +frost damage items? My current DKP is -8

[TeaLeaf]

Never said it was you, Snow asked for some comments and I added my thoughts, adding some counterpoints to the comments you made about why you liked that build.  

Originally posted by Arkhon@Apr 28 2006, 12:40 PM
what I did notice is that now that I switched to frost I have *never* had to use Evocation in any boss fight yet. And my damage output in overall has gone up, with less aggro from the mobs.

The real problem in MC is Ragnaros...
I am now 100% convinced that a fire build is totally unviable to be able to put him down.

If I add up to that the awesomeness of Iceblock in boss fights, I am willing to give up a bit of AE goodness.
Arkhon

Hoorah!!  Another convert

Easy +Frost?  I don;t bother with it really - I tend to add +damage items not frost specific items - Kreuz is the big damage expert so I would ask him, he had a fair degree of frost specific stuff.  I just got most of my damage stuff from MC and a few bits from ZG.  Tbh I am not sure wha tis best, as you can see from below Kreuz has better damage than I do, by a fair amount if it is a frost spell, but by only a little if an 'other' spell, but I have better health, mana, regen rates, armor etc.  Which is best depends on who survives that specific fight I guess and tha towuld vary depending upon who you were fighting!

Teaelle:
Critical Hit :    +1%
Spell Critical :+3%
Spell Hit :+2%
Healing:    +395
Spell Dmg:    +425
Mana Regen:+13

Kreuz:
Critical Hit : +1%
Spell Critical :+4%
Spell Hit :+1%
Healing:  +398
Spell Dmg:  +428
Frost Dmg:  +40
Mana Regen: +12


TL.

[Snowstormer]

To add, maybe fire takes more mana, but it also does alot more damage with that.

I believe there's a fire-pvp build, and a fire pve-build. Same with frost. But you should not think that fire is only for pvp, and frost is for pve. For example, i see impact and improved fireblast as PVP talents, but there's also some PVE-talents. As one of em, improved flamestrike for the AoE'ing. I know tons of mobs in our *current* instances are fire-resistant, but thats not the case in later instances: On the contrary, some mobs are vulnurable, and some mobs are even frost-immune. Fire is still the way to go for high damage, but arcane power and fire is a bit "too" much mana efficent.

I'm very much hoping you will not make a decicion to force everyone to frost after BWL too, but i'll go on with whatever's decided. In the meantime, i'll keep "defending" my view's of the diffrent mage builds to avoid stereotypic talk between the two damage types =P

As for my gear, its Alot based on critical hit chance/damage/int, no stm/armor at all..survivanility to hell, DPS in

[TeaLeaf]

I think after tonight's performance Snowstormer (aka Mr Rezme Again) you'd do anything possible to stay away from damage.  
You need to learn how to control some of that +damage that you already !  :roflmao:
You'd never get to live if you went Fire now  :narnar:  :roflmao:

TL.

[Snowstormer]

Now, before you mock me to the ground, I will defend this firebuild again =P

Fire actually doesnt create any more aggro. First of all, the crits arent as high as frost, but they happen more often. the damage comes from the DoT after the crit, instead of 2.6k frostbolts. + No arcane power, just passive +10%.

If it comes to that, i will start to control my aggro more. But once you get your frostbolt rank 11, you will know how it feels Anyway, i havent seen it as a problem yet, cause the overaggro-part only happens in mobs and..hmm, bosses and...hmm, everything? :/ But i dont mind the repairs. As for my current damage, its only a bit over 300 in frost, nowhere near 400

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Apr 28 2006, 10:09 PM
I think after tonight's performance Snowstormer (aka Mr Rezme Again) you'd do anything possible to stay away from damage.
You need to learn how to control some of that +damage that you already ! :roflmao:
You'd never get to live if you went Fire now :narnar: :roflmao:

TL.

[post=124158]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I quote it again.  You died.  A lot.  Learn aggro control before playing with fire.   :roflmao:  :roflmao:

TL.

[Neff]

Tl' you sure are on a roll

I am now 100% convinced that a fire build is totally unviable to be able to put him down.

Its not unviable, but makes it f'kin harder for the tanks to tank the mob, healers would have to use some mana on you (godforbid)
Fire in MC = it's only dis-liability against most mobs & bosses there, because of a 100% FR aka immune.

oh, and the +frostdmg thingy snow, dont concentrate  on +XYZdmg, just overall +dmg. With warlocks its _much_easier, its either FIRE or SHADOW. and im a SB spammer. I take as much spelldmg i can have, but f.ex my new gloves(brag brag) has a kickass amount of +shadowspelldmg on, so its worth it


(off topic, woo you only have 1 more spelldmg than me Kreuz  B) )

[Arkhon]

Let me refine my statement a bit.

I think for the gear that I have, and with me quite some Mages in RG2.
That it would be impossible to keep good DPS up on Ragnaros,
AE the crap out of his sons, and then keep good DPS up afterwards.

Frostbolts when not frost-specced are just to expensive for the damage they do.
But since fire is useless at Rag and AM costs even more mana I see no other option at this time.

I can understand the better geared Mages when they like fire better,
I miss the burst damage that is really nice on trash mobs.

I can only hope that 1.11 will make Elemental builds more viable, and that Mages wil finally get an Aggro management tool.

In my opinion holding back on DPS as a DPS class defies all reason,
and most certainly is not reasonable if you give other DPS classes like Hunters and Rogues tools to reduce aggro.

They already have better survivabillity in boss fights as it is. (allthough most bosses ofcourse make no discrimination in 1-shot killing any other class but a good specced Warrior)






Arkhon

[Gorion]

Originally posted by Arkhon@Apr 29 2006, 09:49 AM
I can only hope that 1.11 will make Elemental builds more viable, and that Mages wil finally get an Aggro management tool.

there is already one.. but you gonna have some talents in frost

bdw, unless you want to try tanking (not recommended) you should try to keep away from high burst dam and multiple crits in a row.. cos trust me.. thats a whole cr apload of aggro.. and if you insist on tanking.. ille let you tank ille get aggro back after you die

[Arkhon]

Originally posted by Gorion@Apr 29 2006, 01:25 PM
there is already one.. but you gonna have some talents in frost

bdw, unless you want to try tanking (not recommended) you should try to keep away from high burst dam and multiple crits in a row.. cos trust me.. thats a whole cr apload of aggro.. and if you insist on tanking.. ille let you tank ille get aggro back after you die

[post=124200]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Iceblock only makes the Mage invulnerable for a short duration, in which he can only pray that the warrior will get aggro back.
I am hoping for something more alike the spells I had in EverQuest with my Wizard, like Concussion

http://eq.crgaming.com/spells/default.asp?...ell&SpellId=752

It really was an essential tool... I do not understand why WoW Mages do not have something alike.
(The quest to get it was fun too, as it was an essential spell that you just had to have past a certain level)

And for the crits, I mostly take a little pauze after a crit before I start nuking again.




Arkhon

[Snowstormer]

Rewarmped to match new calculator. NO need to the shitty imp. flamestrike to get blastwave anymore. YAAY

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev...000000000000000

On the mana-side its still a bit low, but atleast the "master of elements" helps a little bit. A viable option to this could be to put 28 in arcane, but thats better for frost than fire, Cause if you cant get some of the last talents, you're pretty useless as fire damage dealer or AoE'r.