Something i dont understand!

[Priori]

Yesterday, wednesday the 15 of november i go online and asked to join the raid in Molten Core, i got an invite, and went to insteance, after i got a summon i where asked to leave the raid because the raid diddent allow RG2 members.
 
I have checked the rules and they says:
 
"The MC raids will be open to both mains and alts and to the whole Guild irrespective of membership type."
 
I know and understand:
 
The run would not be open to RG2 mains in a week in which MC was on the RG2 schedule. Commanders will not approve RG2 mains to raid in such weeks, although alts are of course eligible.

 
But im maybe not coming for the RG2 MC run today and that what i said so before i entered the insteanse but i where asked to leave anyway after i got in.
 
THEN I ASKE:
 
Is there different rules from raid to raid?
 
If a RG2 member cant come for the normal RG2 MC run, then they cant raid and HELP alts getting gear, and maybe get the last few piece of gear they need in MC?
 
The result of letting me in and kick me out of raid again is that im saved for the insteance and cant join before next week.
 
\Priori :eyebrow:

[Tika]

i think the rules are there to prevent rg2 members to mysteriously be unable to raid on the days rg2 are doing mc. why not join the days the loot is "free" ?

it should be full clearance tonight, and we aren't going in there untill next week anyway, can't see why the "saved for the instance" should be a problem, as you couldn't come tonight.

but yes would rather see you in there, than many others who wasn't in the guild, you still need some of your tier 1 if im not mistaken. but rules are rules, and not there to be broken

[Knabbel]

Priori,
 
this is due to a little history of RG2.
 
Couple of months ago (2months) we dediced to do MC run once every two weeks. So the new RG2 schedule would be
 
Tuesday  - Thursday - Tuesday - Thursday - Tuesday - Thursday
 
  BWL     -     MC      -     BWL   -  BWL      -    BWL    -   MC
 
Now the weeks that we did BWL two times there was the posibility to join with your RG2 MAIN. Because the next tuesday we were doing BWL and then it resets. So main could join once every two weeks.
 
Due to people leaving and the major step back Marshalls decided to go to MC every week to gear up all the new people. Which is in my opinion the best decision they could take.
 
People that want to join on the RG2 mains, must be CERTAIN they cannot join RG2 raiding days. If you decide to join MC on wednesday and you cannot come on thursday then what happens if RG2 doesn't get a full clearance and need to finish it on tuesday? Right you cannot come because you are saved to the instance.
 
Also like you say,
 

But im maybe not coming for the RG2 MC run

that is not enough tbh. If you are able to join on thursday then you still cannot because you are saved to the instance and this way RG2 lack of defenders on their SCHEDULDED raiding days.
 
I understand still some people don't understand the instance resetting. For that I would like to point them out to the reset calendar posted here:
 
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/raidcalendar/index.html
 
40 man runs are resetted EVERY WEDNESDAY MORNING...ALWAYS.....
20 man runs is different also Onxyia. Go check calendar.
 
I hope this is an answer.

[TeaLeaf]

The rules are quite clear and imo simple to understand, you quoted them yourself Priori.  Things can happen that can make your attendance at a SOG One raid as an RG2 Main unacceptable, like the failure of RG2 to clear MC in a single night for example or a change in your personal circumstances that might mean the Thursday night attendance is now possible.  For example last night another RG2 member advised Marshalls they were unable to come tomorrow and asked if they could attend the SOG One raid - they were told no, just like you.  Twenty minutes later they whispered back saying that it was ok they could join the RG2 run on Thursday.  So things like this can happen.

I am sorry that you are now locked into the SOG One instance (you zoned in before Marshalls were able to ask the Commanders to remove you from the raid), but I understand you knew the rules and had previosuly been told that attending a SOG One raid was not acceptable for an RG2 Main.  Let's hope for your sake and RG2's that they clear MC tonight so that you are able to attend the RG2 raid.

As an aside and for information, the WOW raid instance reset calendar is also a forum link in the WoW section of these forums.

TL.

[Priori]

I understand the rules, and i find them just fine. I got my DS heltmet for free and think its was unfair that Bunfur and other hunters had paid DKP for there helmet.
 
Because i think the situation is a litte strange is because there where free spaces in raid, i only need 3 more items and maybe cannot join todays (Because i dont know when im home today)
 
Rules are rules, and i would follow them but then the word "main" should be deleted in the rules and only alts should be allowed.
 
OR
 
We allow RG2 members to come if there are free spaces but they pay DKP for the items and alt dont do that.
 
Just and ide!

[Knabbel]

I think the marshalls should stick with the rule.
 
If you are not able to attend on raiding days then to bad.... Like TL stated it's possible that thing can work out fine for people.
 
If this happens to a lot of people then they should think of if they are able to meet up the attendance rules.
 
Sure you can mis out a raid etc.......
 
I will try to talk to the marshall about this with the commanders.

[Priori]

Its okay with me....
 
Take a chat with the other commanders and mashalls about my suggestion....
 
Its an alternative for those who miss a raid or something and still need the rest of their gear to get the last peaces. Also the alt get som help raiding the wednesdays.
 

[DarkAngel]

Its okay with me....
 
Take a chat with the other commanders and mashalls about my suggestion....
 
Its an alternative for those who miss a raid or something and still need the rest of their gear to get the last peaces. Also the alt get som help raiding the wednesdays.
 

As we see it, we will stick with this rule. Its because we do MC in our rotation that causes issues like this.
 
But we stick with that at this time RG2 Mains are not allowed in the weekly run. Yes in the past we have made exceptions but that stops now.

[saori]

Priori, there was a lot of people in your situation, a lot, belive me, but rules are clear, not RG2 mains are allowed in SoG One while RG2 is raiding in MC in the same week. I got whispered by Gorion as soon as i logged in yesterday and my reply was clear: "im RG2 so i cannot join", and spend the rest of the evening farming essence of air in order to get the +30 spell dmg that will increase my dps and RG2 ovearl dps. We now do MC each week, so while we keep that schedule you must think about helping your RG2 to acomplish the raiding objectives in the best posible way.
 
As someone stated me time before, there is no "i" in "team". I understand that you can be in a situation where you think: "well, i cannot assist tomorrow, so what is the problem in joining SoG one, help alts and get some epics i need, even if i have to pay DKP?". Its a normal feeling, i suppose, but let me remind you that eventually you will get that stuff while helping your raid group mates in their task (and your task too since you are defender) and with your attendance you will be able to achive your own objectives while achiving the objectives from your whole raid group. Helping adds must not be a priority to you beacuse your RG is the one that really needs your help, alt are that, ALTS! and all that have an alt gearing up has a main that is dedicated to his RG, as you must, in my opinion.
 
Loot is a piece of the big cake that everyone of us wants, but loot far from being a reward from killing bosses, is only another piece of the estructure that support our efforts as a 40 man group. The real reward is to see that the effort that 40 people are puting into the very same objective gets rewarded with nice play and with friendship. Really mate, that is the best reward you can ever get from WoW, and little games will give you the chance to meet a lot of nice people than the one we can enjoy in SoG.
 
By best advise to you is to try to push your efforts into RG2 progress, eventually you will get you loot and even better loot than the one dropped in MC when we make some nice progress in BWL, and the most important, you will be a more important part of the big overall that all of us (in our way) try to build for RG2. So, encourage yourself, put your gear on, and lets pawn today every mob in MC mate!!!! :yahoo:

[Priori]

I understand that we follow the rules..and I agree in all you have written, but RG2s situation in BWL is that we dont have the necessary damage gear to to further in BWL and thats way i propose that we change the loot rules on wednesday.
 
I was just a proposal so we all could get our gear faster if someone miss a raid or something. Then we could get some progress in BWL instead of people leaving and dont wanna raid.
 
About Tikas reply:
 
but yes would rather see you in there, than many others who wasn't in the guild, you still need some of your tier 1 if im not mistaken. but rules are rules, and not there to be broken
 
 
Where there non guildies in the raid last yesterday?
 
If there where = SOG wanna gear other people up whos not in the guild instead of letting the RG2 getting there last gear. Ill find that Totally stupid if the that is right.

[Luthor]

Priori, there was a lot of people in your situation, a lot, belive me, but rules are clear, not RG2 mains are allowed in SoG One while RG2 is raiding in MC in the same week. I got whispered by Gorion as soon as i logged in yesterday and my reply was clear: "im RG2 so i cannot join", and spend the rest of the evening farming essence of air in order to get the +30 spell dmg that will increase my dps and RG2 ovearl dps. We now do MC each week, so while we keep that schedule you must think about helping your RG2 to acomplish the raiding objectives in the best posible way.
 
As someone stated me time before, there is no "i" in "team". I understand that you can be in a situation where you think: "well, i cannot assist tomorrow, so what is the problem in joining SoG one, help alts and get some epics i need, even if i have to pay DKP?". Its a normal feeling, i suppose, but let me remind you that eventually you will get that stuff while helping your raid group mates in their task (and your task too since you are defender) and with your attendance you will be able to achive your own objectives while achiving the objectives from your whole raid group. Helping adds must not be a priority to you beacuse your RG is the one that really needs your help, alt are that, ALTS! and all that have an alt gearing up has a main that is dedicated to his RG, as you must, in my opinion.

 
Thats odd. you totally contradicted yourself there.
 
Your going to farm essences to help your overall DPS. by adding spellpower enchants to your weapon ([item]Staff of Dominance[/item] i assume)
 
But is it not helping the overall RG2 progress/DPS. that Priori get better items. Giantstalker etc? when apparently arent able to raid Thursday.
 
I understand and respect the rule set in place! but your argument there was plain wrong.

[saori]

Thats odd. you totally contradicted yourself there.
 
Your going to farm essences to help your overall DPS. by adding spellpower enchants to your weapon ([item]Staff of Dominance[/item] i assume)
 
But is it not helping the overall RG2 progress/DPS. that Priori get better items. Giantstalker etc? when apparently arent able to raid Thursday.
 
I understand and respect the rule set in place! but your argument there was plain wrong.

It isnt wrong and i didnt contradict myself, Luthor.
 
The point was that while i couldnt join to SoG one to get some nice epics i also need because my commitment if for RG2 i spend the rest of the evening doing something that might be beneficial for me and for RG2, that was farming those essence that are a pain to farm so i can get more dps that will definitly increase overall DPS from RG2 (in a minor way, of course, but will increase).
 
of course will help to RG2 that priori gets better items, i dont doubt it, but let me ask you something, if Priori joins yesterday to MC he will not be able to join today, so today we had at least 1 less defender to help with the raid, and if we dont clear MC tonight, then next tuesday he cant join because he will be locked to, so when will he use those nice items he got for helping RG2? in 2 weeks from now?
 
Sorry, but i think is far more important to count on him as an active defender raiding at RG2 scheduled days than to get him his items and wait him to join in 2 weeks (and BTW, he will get eventually those items while raiding with RG2, no?)
 
Oh, and BTW, this isnt about me, Luthor, im happy with the rules and i know my place in the big picture, and i dont complain, and i was just trying to encourage Priori to raid with us at a team!
 
So, please, Luthor, open your mind, be formless, shapeless, be water my friend!

[TeaLeaf]

The real reward is to see that the effort that 40 people are puting into the very same objective gets rewarded with nice play and with friendship. Really mate, that is the best reward you can ever get from WoW, and little games will give you the chance to meet a lot of nice people than the one we can enjoy in SoG.

Amen to that.  Ask anyone in RG1 what the bigger thrill was - getting Twin Emperors down or getting some of the phat loot that they dropped.  It was no contest.  The thrill of defeating them was awesome, the loot was a long way behind and an after thought for everyone.

thats way i propose that we change the loot rules on wednesday.
 
I was just a proposal so we all could get our gear faster if someone miss a raid or something. Then we could get some progress in BWL instead of people leaving and dont wanna raid.

It's a proposal, but one that has already been considered and discounted for the reasons already given in this thread.  Seeing it as 'slowing RG2 down' by not giving you persoinally the chance to improve your gear is totally the wrong end of the stick.  If you look at it from the other end of the stick you'll find that it is about ensuring your RG2 has a full raid and can make progress otherwise your solo improvement will hurt the other 39 in RG2.  The raid progress is the more important, but in turn this progress will gear you up.  

Thats odd. you totally contradicted yourself there.
 
Your going to farm essences to help your overall DPS. by adding spellpower enchants to your weapon ([item]Staff of Dominance[/item] i assume)
 
But is it not helping the overall RG2 progress/DPS. that Priori get better items. Giantstalker etc? when apparently arent able to raid Thursday.
 
I understand and respect the rule set in place! but your argument there was plain wrong.

I see what you are saying Luthor and technically you are right.  Yes, Priori gearing up through a SOG One run helps RG2 as does Saori farming the essences for the +30 spell damage enchant, but that's hardly the point here!  Saori quite rightly turned down the spot in SOG One when Gorion whispered.  Well done Saori!

RG2s situation in BWL is that we dont have the necessary damage gear to to further in BWL and thats way i propose that we change the loot rules on wednesday.

Oh this statement is just soooo wrong!

RG2 can clear MC in less than 3 hours and my personal estimation is that RG2 could do a 2 hour 30 minute MC clearance with relative ease.  Ask any other BWL guild how quickly they clear MC, you'll find most use a whole night to do it.  The fact that RG2 have already killed Razegore, Vaelestraz & Broodlord proves you can do it.  Firemaw, Ebonroc, Flamegore & Chromaggus do not need the DPS required for Vaelestraz and you will not need higher DPS until you get to Nefarian.  By the time you do that you will have a couple of months of killing all the bosses in BWL up to Nefarian, most of your raid will have the majority of their T2 set and most will be using a T2 weapon.  Ergo your DPS will be much higher when you reach Nefarian and the increased DPS needed will be there automatically.

RG2 have the DPS & they know the tactics required to defeat the bosses.  They just need people to commit to being part of the team and turn up consistently to work with the other RG2 members.  

TL.

[Knabbel]

RG2 have the DPS & they know the tactics required to defeat the bosses. They just need people to commit to being part of the team and turn up consistently to work with the other RG2 members.

This is SO true....... I hope all read this...

[saori]

RG2 have the DPS & they know the tactics required to defeat the bosses. They just need people to commit to being part of the team and turn up consistently to work with the other RG2 members.

Totally agree! C'mon guys! lets take down to hell the whole BWL and kick Nefarians ass!!!
 
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