DuVel

Doorman · January 21, 2008, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: Armitage;219716I think a 3 month ban would make anyone stop and think. But I'm guessing the fact he verbal abused a yongen, show's in match play he just isn't thinking. what about removing all his match play rights, permanently. you could add being busted down to alpha or bravo, but if matches are where his a problem, it's easily fixed.

Are you saying that apart from when he's in a match he's really a sweetheart?

Armitage · January 21, 2008, 10:48:03 PM

I'm not on the CS server much these days. But I'm guessing it isn't normal for him to verbal abuse people on the server.

Whitey · January 21, 2008, 10:48:14 PM

Quote from: Armitage;219716I think a 3 month ban would make anyone stop and think. But I'm guessing the fact he verbal abused a yongen, show's in match play he just isn't thinking. what about removing all his match play rights, permanently. you could add being busted down to alpha or bravo, but if matches are where his a problem, it's easily fixed.

I wasn't going to post anything else tonight until I'd had a sleep on it but...
It's not just matches, it's anything that winds him up. Six months ago someone made a comment that he didn't like (said yippeee or something when they shot him). He got in a right temper and swore like a trooper.

Doorman · January 21, 2008, 10:54:28 PM

There is one problem. The Amsterdam trip. :flirty: Banning is very likely not on the cards I'd say.

Whitey · January 22, 2008, 09:33:08 AM

Quote from: Doorman;219722There is one problem. The Amsterdam trip. :flirty: Banning is very likely not on the cards I'd say.

I've had a couple of other PM's from Squonk:

QuoteIt was a real shame i feel for phil he was so looking forward to be playing a match just like his dad.
you must understand phil has grown up around dmw and people who are now good family friends come from me being in dmw.
he had looked round he map with me and mats and took in our tactics and pointed out good spots etc..he was really gettin in to it.
sunday night he rushed his tea..so he could get the home work he needed to finsh done so he could shower and be ready to play .

then on the 2/3 round he as some mad man yelling at him..this isnt the 1st time ive had a run in with duvel i really do think he as big problems.

as from now on i will not be playing on th server with duvel and neither will phil

Iam at work at the moment i;ll try to catch you later in the week for a chat

thanks again

steve

QuoteJust to clear somthing up steve

I have no issues with late night swearing /banter/peetaking
i could be one of the worse ofenders for a drunken friday night laugh

what i do object to is verbal abuse and bullying!

and if i let phil got on the hook on a friday evening then iam aware of what goes on

he's a bit like me tbh he can joke/peetake along with the best

as i said in my other reply i'll try to grab a chat with you later in the week

Whitey · January 22, 2008, 12:59:17 PM

Having looked through the replies and thought about this a lot my thoughts are:

1-3 month ban from CS:Servers and when he returns he has Alpha status.
I really don't want people as volatile as DuVel, representing dMw on the CS servers. He should also get a final warning that if he steps out of line again, it will be a complete permanent ban. Hopefully that will be enough to make him think about his attitude when playing games.

As far as communication is concerned, I can handle the PM to DuVel but should anything be posted on the forum (see quote)?

The following PM from DuVel to a member of Charlie:

QuoteGot to say that I have changed a bit last year with gaming but only because the admins have messed up a few things aswell.
There are also things that happend that you have no idea about.

Do you even know how I lost my adminstatus?
On 1 Friday-evening, 2-3 "older" guys/admins thought it would be funny to comment on me 3 times in a row in a not so nice way after which I lost it and slayed the guy who made a 4th comment (this was a person who just joined our side and heard the comments and started with it also).
The same admins that made the comments also got to view my complaint after that and just said that I overreacted and that it was just some Fridaynight fun.
Well, 4 times in a row of comments and you say something about it..."Hey we're taking the p*ss at you for fun and it's allowed".
This has changed gaming for me a bit aswell.

Just to let you know on what changed a nice Fridaynight and what happend to me aswell.
But then again, you wont hear about this on the Publicforum...

Pete out...

Lets sort this out quickly.

Anonymous · January 22, 2008, 02:17:11 PM

If he starts complaining publicly then he can have a forum ban as well.

Whitey · January 22, 2008, 03:14:10 PM

Quote from: OldBloke;219699Just to clarify ... Duvel said he apologised to both Phil and Steve immediately after. Steve's reply to Whitey doesn't mention this so we don't know if an apology was offered or, if it was, if it was accepted.

DuVel has not had a reply to his "apology" from either Steve or Phil but if it's been worded in the same way as some of his other PM's on this matter, I'm not surprised. DuVel seems to think some of the blame lies with Phil for not playing well enough. I really don't think Steve wants to have any contact with DuVel.

TeaLeaf · January 22, 2008, 03:20:58 PM

I think any response to Duvel should address the verbal abuse/bullying angle to keep it beyond argument. I do not see a demotion to Bravo as having any practical impact, so I would suggest we do the followiing:

I think because of the nature of the incident it would be appropriate to ask duvel to take a leave of absence from ALL dMw game servers for 4 weeks starting immediately. If he disagrees then you can tell him he is banned for 4 weeks. Either way he will get the message that his outburst was unacceptable and he should not show his face on the servers again for 4 weeks. In gaming terms this is a long time so it will have an impact.

We should advise him that we will not tolerate further such verbal abuse/bullying and that if it happens again he will end up with a demotion to Alpha and a longer term or possibly even permanent ban.

We should ask him to take time to think about his actions, we should acknowledge his immediate apology, but set out that whilst the apology was welcome the actions cannot go unpunished and that the short term nature of the break we're asking him to take reflects that fact that he is a valued member of long standing.

We should set out that we hope to see him back on our game servers on .

If he goes public on the forums we simply set out the bare facts of the case and the appropriate punishment issued. I suspect this will shut him up. By all means ban him on the forums if he then continues to stir it up, but I do not see a forum ban as helpful at this point.

If you need me to word something or to pass an eye over a draft PM as 'contributing editor' (or some other such publishing bullshit) then please let me know.

My 2 cents.

TL.

PS: I think my views here are tainted by the fact that the victim was a minor. Such behaviour on a Friday night between consentin adults on our game servers is some times called 'an argument'. It therefore also raises the question as to whether or not people of younger ages should be encouraged onto our servers. This is after all an adult community as the poll on age ranges of members showed very well. However age limits I am sure are a topic for a separate debate. who wants to start a thread......take it away Ron! :boxing:

Doorman · January 22, 2008, 04:03:12 PM

Quote from: TeaLeaf;219794...that he is a valued member of long standing.

Valued? Name names. :lmfao:

Quote from: TeaLeaf;219794However age limits I am sure are a topic for a separate debate. who wants to start a thread......take it away Ron! :boxing:

I don't have a problem with age per se, it's immaturity and stupidity I don't have time for.

Anonymous · January 22, 2008, 04:12:01 PM

Quote from: TeaLeaf;219794We should advise him that we will not tolerate further such verbal abuse/bullying and that if it happens again he will end up with a demotion to Alpha and a longer term or possibly even permanent ban.

I am totally of the opinion that if he bullies again after the ban then it is not our responsibility to coach him in the correct way of doing things. Consequently, if (after this episode) there is another one then a permanent ban is the only way.

He has already lost admin status, he should now lose Charlie status at least and, in the words of Ron, we need to stop pussyfooting about! There are not enough hours in the day for us to be parents/workers/gamers/admins and to carry out life-coaching duties!

Anonymous · January 22, 2008, 04:12:30 PM

Quote from: Doorman;219807I don't have a problem with age per se, it's immaturity and stupidity I don't have time for.

Sorry Ron but I try my best :narnar:

Whitey · January 22, 2008, 06:44:19 PM

I just received another PM from one of the public admins.

QuoteDang, I was only joking about the Duvel thing and it turns out that Duvel was actually being....well... 'Duvel' ( i got a msg from Steve aka Squ0nk) :eyebrow:

I must admit, when i was Alpha, i heard Duvel hurling abuse at some of the youngsters, if i was to hear it now, I will be actioning it in accordance to your thread!

Penfold · January 22, 2008, 08:16:04 PM

Are we any nearer finalising this?

I reckon it should be sorted and put to bed as soon as possible so all concerned can move on.

Once the final decision has been made I presume someone will tell Squonk / Pip so they know what action has been taken and so they're kept in the loop?

We need some closure .......... please

PEN

PS. Final oar.... I think TL's four-week ban is pretty appropriate. (I'm not sure he should come back as a Charlie though but that's not my call).

TeaLeaf · January 22, 2008, 08:47:22 PM

Quote from: Doorman;219807Valued? Name names. :lmfao:

You can't argue with history. He has contributed a lot of positive to the community over time. You may not like him, he may be an arse at times, but he does some good things. Even if they are only syrup waffles.

Call me a *******, but I do not believe in shitting on someone from a very great height when they are down. Sure give them the hard message, but you do not have to wrap it in a brick and embed it in their skull. Hence my carefully chosen words. People will read and take on more of your criticism if at the same time you give them something positive to read. That's not my opinion, it's proven scientific fact. So if you want to call him a '****' then do it at the same time as praising something else he does and he'll actually ignore you less.

Quote from: BlueBall;219811I am totally of the opinion that if he bullies again after the ban then it is not our responsibility to coach him in the correct way of doing things. Consequently, if (after this episode) there is another one then a permanent ban is the only way.

Let's stick to the current transgression and not hypothesise about a possible future violation. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

@Penfold
Whitey has drafted a PM which has been edited and sent to Oldbloke for comment. Whitey has our full support in this issue.

TL.