DKP - Is now the time?

TeaLeaf · October 05, 2009, 07:46:00 AM

Yet another topic that got discussed during my beer-laden session with Fatdog & Thebhoy the other night and worth bringing up here again. Yes it has been discussed here before but DMR has changed since the last discussion about it and therefore I think it is worth bumping for a fresh debate. The motion:

DMR needs a loot system that rewards raiders more in proportion to the effort they put into the raid rather than relying on a roll which could see loot going to a first-time visitor.

After a heated debate about pros and cons we concluded that such a change would be beneficial especially when you are trying to get improved attendance, more reliable members and a better geared & prepared raidiing membership. People like seeing effort rewarded on a more predictable basis.

The Webdkp addon has already been used, the website is up and running (Jas set up a dMw account earlier this year - username & password are a few pages back in this topic) and it will run a system very simply for you.

Cue discussion about DKP.

Gandalf · October 05, 2009, 08:06:12 AM

Well, we already run the addon and I have the web account as seen here;
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/cmps_index.php?cc=dmrloot

I can make anyone an admin on that so no problems adding loot.

What we'd need to do is stop people running out of range if they actually want loot otherwise it's not recorded!

I'll do some reading up on the various implementations of DKP to see what may be best for us. I do agree that it is worth looking at as it will reward constant attenders.

JonnyAppleSeed · October 05, 2009, 08:10:37 AM

Apart from the admin side of using it i have never had a problem with dkp

sheepy · October 05, 2009, 09:54:18 AM

yes, it is time.

still make it as simple as possible, something along the idea of "zero-sum-hour"

TeaLeaf · October 05, 2009, 08:05:27 PM

Quote from: Whitey;291855One big lesson I learned from last nights raid was don't roll on things that are a small improvement as you could lose out on a huge upgrade having already won something. :doh:

....another huge reason to switch to a DKP system. People do this a lot, not just Whitey.

Azunai · October 05, 2009, 10:32:36 PM

One thing I fear from DKP is hoarding. "Not getting Upgrade X because Upgrade Y might drop and it's a far bigger upgrade, and if I spend my dkp on Upgrade X I won't be able to get Upgrade Y."

Then again I've only had experience with a massively inflated DKP system in Righteous. As long as I don't have to bid on stuff I am good. Just announce you want, highest dkp gets it, it gets deducted off your dkp. Earnings I'm easy on.

In general I don't want to burn my hands on it again is all I'm saying so I'm just going to go with the flow here.

TeaLeaf · October 05, 2009, 10:57:24 PM

If you keep the system cap low then inflation is never a problem, in fact a low cap encourages buying of loot as otherwise the DKP is wasted as it is over the cap. You raise fair points though.

Baylien · October 06, 2009, 05:45:02 PM

Although not always popular I also like the idea of attendance DKP.
Basically you attend(be online and accessible for the duration of the raid) you get a point, you join the raid at the cost of one point. So if you attend but raid is full you get +1 attendance dkp for sitting in reserve, people in the raid get one point, but also spend one.
Reset this weekly, monthly, bi-monthly, however you see fit.
As much as some people can't attend as much as 'others' that is not a fault of said 'others'. This is merely something which worked very well in BTDT, likely not the case for DMR.
Equality is a not a line it's a multidimensional manifold lol.
I am on the fence with DKP, I'm happy with or without it, gear is only really needed for hard modes anyway imo.

/Bay'

TeaLeaf · October 06, 2009, 08:19:27 PM

The way the addon works is that anyone in thew raid (not necessarily in the instance) gets DKP. We usually award 1 dkp for raid start then award 1 dkp per 30 mins (autoaward) and 1 DKP at raid end. Cap of 150 DKP and bid for loot (addon handles all the bids). Simples.

TeaLeaf · October 19, 2009, 10:56:06 AM

Bump.
Generally positive comments received to the suggestion if introducing DKP, but nothing has happened.

I've just got through reading Dillinja's migriane-inducing walloftextwithoutpunctuationorgapsforbreath and his rant would have been solved by DKP. If he never misses a raid he would be able to benefit more often for loot than someone who turns up less often.

The bottom line is the regulars tend to be the ones you rely on for raid performance so I really do think this needs some action.

DKP also encourages attendance as people know that they get better loot chances with higher attendance gving them higher DKP. It's a win-win situation.

Gandalf · October 19, 2009, 11:02:44 AM

yes, this is on my list of things to look into in detail. As I've no experience on running any form of DKP I want to research fully before proposing a system that will work for us.

Unfortunately I've not had a lot of free time to look into the options so it's slipped a bit.

TeaLeaf · October 19, 2009, 11:22:01 AM

Can talk about it at the LAN if it helps. Seen quite a few systems in my time.

Gandalf · October 19, 2009, 11:39:29 AM

Quote from: TeaLeaf;293143Can talk about it at the LAN if it helps. Seen quite a few systems in my time.

It would indeed help, thanks.

Gandalf · October 25, 2009, 11:05:51 PM

ok, after a good chat with TL at the lan and looking at what the webDKP addon ingame can offer I have a system that I believe will work very well. (Mainly because it works for others, so stealing ideas is always good!)

We will run a capped DKP system with an auto award set to award DKP at regular intervals.

1. At 19:55 everyone in the raid, including standby members (will need to ensure they are invited and moved to groups 6 and up) are awarded 1 DKP. This will ensure prompt attendance.
2. Every 30 minutes after this period the addon will auto award everyone in the raid 1 DKP. (This is why we have the standby members in the group, but not in the instance)
3. Bidding will be handled by the addon and people can bit what they want for the item, there are no timelimits for these bids to prevent sniping and a call to end will be decided by the ML.
4. People can bid more than they have up to -25 DKP. They will then have a negative number and will need to make that up before bidding again (So if something drops they really want, they won't lose out)
5. The DKP cap is to be set at 100. Anyone going over this will have DKP deducted for the cap. This will prevent hording and encourage people spending on loot.
6. There will no longer be any offspec or mainspec rolls. If someone wants it, they can bid for it. People are not going to waste valuable DKP by bidding loads for an offspec so this shouldn't cause any issues.

And there we have it. We'll have something that will award everyone who turns up on time and is available to raid. Even if we have more than enough, as long as they are in the raid group they will get DKP. Consistant raiders will be rewarded as they will have a greater chance of getting loot over people who turn up once every week as they will have more DKP to bid for an item.

What I will need is a few more officers to run the webDKP addon. Jas does, but some more would be good. I've setup Jas and Evo as an admin account on the webDKP site, I will also need some more officers on there, so I will need an email address and username. I'll then set a random password for it and you'll have access to the loot tables.

The addon is available on the site too, and it will syncronise between us so we can all run it and upload without any problems.

The website is here; http://www.webdkp.com/
And our account is here; http://www.webdkp.com/dkp/Aszune/Dead+Men+Raiding/Loot

gijs · October 26, 2009, 08:24:42 AM

sounds great i downloaded and installed the addon (there latest version is out of date).

happy to help out where/when ever needed.

e-mail: gijs75@live.nl
login: Gijs