TOC - Anub'arak

[Roary]

what im trying to say is there is allways the right amount of people for a 10 man but not all ways for 25 remeber the time a raid was cancel'd  because there wasnet the right amount of people online and it was a idea and wasnt getting at any one just the fact of trying that eluo tac 11 times and failing every time did get stupid tbh after the 5 try i would of tryed it differently but thats not my choice its up to the officers,


i watched the vid gandy posted with the purma frost placed in a sort of ring around the boss and not aoeing then mini adds down just single target them,  because when we aoe'd them every one was getting the debuff witch started to killl us off, and from what i seen it looked like the 2 add tanks tanked them on the same patch of purma frost

[TeaLeaf]

If you read the opening paragraphs of what I posted Roary I gave the info as a suggestion to aid control of the encounter, which DMR were struggling with.  I even mentioned it as being just one example of a strategy, not *the* way to do it.  As Az says, it has nothing to do with it coming from Eluo or that fact that this is DMR not Eluo, nothing in there requires you to be in Eluo before being able to actually implement that strategy.  If you read around the encounter you will find others have found similar paths, each with their own tweaks, but in a very similar vein.  The principle is the important bit, not necessarily the detail of the strategy.  The point is work out how to kite the adds and control P2, not that you have to kite them that way.  People should look at an encounter and then work out how the control aspects work best for your own raid.


Roary, just for info Eluo are still working on HC Anub and not killed him yet, but we know the tactic is sound and are now refining our P3 strategy.  It has taken us about 100 wipes so far, so doing 5 and wanting to change is probably not giving the strategy a fair chance.  5 is usually just enough time to work out if people understood what you said, not if the strategy works or not.

[Azunai]

What I've been thinking of changing based on the tactics we used last night is this:

P1 either remains the same OR me and Hal tank the 2 adds right next to eachother. Experience from P2 yesterday shows that we can handle 2 adds hitting 1 tank, so 2 adds hitting 2 tanks should be managable. Advantage: They both get hit by ricochet dmg initially. Once 2nd wave comes we split them back up because 4 adds is too complex.

P2: Instead of the BoP/fixed path we just drop down as many orbs as we can since they seem to be indefinite on normal. Someone who is kiting should opt for a patch as far away from the boss as possible to 'use up' as much of P2 time as possible. BoPs are optional but given our usual setup and specs we will not be able to maintain this throughout the entire encounter. Melee who are being pursued by spikes while they are killing big adds should clear away from the add patch asap so as to not consume it and cause the adds to burrow. Once adds are down we proceed to single target down scarabs. Everyone who is not kiting should be standing on a frost patch to avoid getting hit by the spikes if they happen to pass by.

This method relies less on strict kite paths that are prone to screw-ups.

Thoughts?

[Roary]

fair enoght TL but what im trying to say is even after 5 wipes it was still the sam thing happening people not placeing them self in the right place boss not being in the right place and yh i wasent in the right place at 1 point but thats because of not being able to hear things being said on ts because the coms arnt being cleard, maybe you should come along for a run and you can see what im trying to say and maybe point out where we could do some thing different,

like not aoe'ing them mini bug things because of that debuff or try and get as many pura frost down and as fast as pos little bits like that is were we how can i put it ummm fail.... and we defo need to sort the hop out with only 3 pallys in the raid just wasnt working

[Azunai]

Point is Roary that it's not right to dismiss a tactic after only a few messups. Only if something consistenly goes wrong can you dismiss it as not working. Like for instance killing the 1st wave of adds. After a few tries it showed us that we didn't have enough dps to bring down the boss enough in hp.

The rest of the tactic however had something differently going wrong every time. It's not the same thing going wrong, hence we can't conclude the tactic isn't working. It is, we just need to finetune the execution to erase the little errors that we encountered. And if they keep occuring then we can make changes as I posted below. But there's no point in dismissing a tactic if we haven't been able to fully test it yet.

It's like saying there's no black swans after seeing 5 white swans in nature. You can't conclude that on the basis of just 5 white swans.

[TeaLeaf]

Nice anology!

One thing that did spring out from your previous post (#19) was that you said you are not getting the adds down before the next lot arrive.  That's the thing I would work on first, you need to stay ahead of the adds or the problems back up through the fight and eventually become insurmountable.  You need to aim to kill the first wave of adds before the next lot spawn.

[Roary]

ok fair enough and i agree now and see the point and apologize


but what im thinking is them little scarb things need to be single targeted and not aoe'd cuz that debuff is a ass to heal agenst  

im gunu do something on paint to show what i mean later see if it helps me to explain better

[Azunai]

Nice anology!

One thing that did spring out from your previous post (#19) was that you said you are not getting the adds down before the next lot arrive.  That's the thing I would work on first, you need to stay ahead of the adds or the problems back up through the fight and eventually become insurmountable.  You need to aim to kill the first wave of adds before the next lot spawn.

It was our original plan, but we were literally 100% off the enrage timer. He was 55% when enrage hit. What we did next was ignore the adds and go all out on boss in P1, and instead we let the adds take as much ricochet dmg as possible by positioning them close enough for melee multitarget damage to bounce off. This way we were getting into P2 with 1 add on roughly 30-50% health constantly. We then proceed to kill these adds followed by the scarabs and so far we have managed to do that whilst keeping tanks and raid up. Upon wipes he would be at roughly 50% hp with less than half of the enrage timer having ticked away.

I haven't paid much attention to scarab kills but I believe these keep spawning if killed during P2. So in theory it wouldn't matter if you killed some of them during P2, as long as you can manage to clear them right before/during/after transition back to P1. What I'm trying to say is you do not need full time on scarab killing in P2 so you do have time to hit the adds. The only downside is healers having a bit harder job since tanks are taking more damage. But on the upside, killing the boss becomes a realistic goal, which it was faaaaaar from when we killed adds upon spawn.

Point is that you even things out again by killing big adds in P2.

[Roary]

yh but the thing with them scarabs is the debuff that stacks on who ever they hit and they tend to hit healers and that aint good tbh and with the dbuff stacking on others makes mine and the other healers job ridiculously hard

[Sithvid]

love the swan analogy...let me add ... not trying to feather my own nest...

Some of the ugly ducklings in the raid (I'm ONE) need time to grow into the fight eventually we will spread our wings and fly through it.

I cannot see the problem because if the game was too easy no one would bother playing it, last night was great fun comms and banter were also good.

[TeaLeaf]

yh but the thing with them scarabs is the debuff that stacks on who ever they hit

^^^ this kills healing.  Spot on.  The debuff is seriously nasty to have to heal in addition to everything else.  Single target is the way forward.  People need to step up their personal dps and deliver what is needed.

[Fatdog]

ya, this was a problem last night, some people were stacking 25+ of those debuffs, i was hitting 12-13k heals on them, with others landing as well and struggling to keep them up.  we defo need those scarabs single targeted down rather than mass AOE on them like last night

[Azunai]

And if people notice these scarabs being close by then enter the PvP mentality: Stun it, slow it the whole shebang. Survive.

[TeaLeaf]

ya, this was a problem last night, some people were stacking 25+ of those debuffs, i was hitting 12-13k heals on them, with others landing as well and struggling to keep them up.  we defo need those scarabs single targeted down rather than mass AOE on them like last night

As a comparison, the worst I see is 11-12 stacks and typically that's on only one person in the raid.  25 sounds like it comes from a tank in an AOE strategy.  Typically I would see maybe 8 people in a 25 person raid with the debuff, most with only 1 stack and maybe a couple with 5-6 stacks and maybe one the one person with 11-12 stacks.  The multiple stacks all come from enraged adds (nothing you can do to avoid them), so it's a measure of how poor the dps on them is.

The adds have something like a 20k threat focus on a target.  This means you can approach them and they will ignore you until you pull aggro by exceeding this threat value.  In essence this means you can attack any scarab that is not targeting you and so long as there are a few of you attacking at the same time you then the scarab will die well before any of you pull aggro.

[Fatdog]

unfort on this example it was dps with the stacks