Moderation - last night

[TeaLeaf]

/moderator hat ON

Just a clarification here:

I closed the thread last night with my moderator hat on as it was way OTT in terms of aggression and ranting.  We have had a slew of threads recently where people have let off steam and they seem to have been getting progressively worse in their tone, but it is a trend I do not want to see continue within this section of the community.

What I was not trying to do was to shut down discussion of the issue.  Members are always free to discuss things but we want the discussion to be mature, civil and constructive.  My view last night was that having let a couple of similar posts go in the last few weeks, we reached a point where a member was telling an Council member to sod off in the forums in quite an aggressive manner.  Worse still, this was not just a member, it was a supposed 'Class Leader' - what sort of impression does that give to the guild when a CL is telling a Councillor to 'sod off' (and believe me the swear filter kicked in during that post).  To me the post crossed a line and I needed to shut it down to make the point that this type of agressive behaviour is not acceptable.  If I had not shut it down to send that message I believe the next one from Ice would have been even worse.

For my part I sent Ice a personal PM last night advising him that the way he dealt with the issue was wrong.  As Council it might be worth pulling him to one side and explaining the standards expected of him as a Class Leader and reminding him of the reporting channels and how to discuss things with others.  Ranting, swearing and telling a Council member to sod off are not in the job description of a CL afaiaa.  He needs to learn to deal with things in a more mature fashion.

Ice

Much as I can understand your point in what you have posted in the DMR forums, can I strongly recommend that you PM Gandalf next time you have an issue rather than letting off steam on the forums?  It is much more productive to speak with a knowledgeable and experienced guild leader than it is to rant on the forums and the thread does not make us all look good.  Give the officers the opportunity to deal with it quietly and correct any error or miscommunication rather than lambast everyone in public please.

TL.

cc Gandalf

I'm sorry FB, but you need to recognise the community standards here and that they override any anger you feel at the particular issue.  If communication amongst GLs/Council has been wrong then deal with it and resolve it and issue clarification, apologise to those it inadvertently affected and mvoe the guild forward, but I would not expect any Council Member/GL/GM/CL to post a bunch of swear words to discuss it.

My actions were taken not as a DMR Council Member, but as a community moderator.  If I see that type of post elsewhere I would moderate it in a similar fashion and speak to that person directly with a cc to the Game Admin, just as I did in this case.  Re-posting the issue is fine, that is what I wanted, a clean thread, but putting back in a bunch of swear words is out of order.  May I suggest you consider editing your own post to remove the offending words and calm down the tone please?  That's not 'nany state'. it's civility, maturity & common decency.

If you still feel that my reaction is out of line then my presence in DMR becomes untennable.  I have to be able to act as a moderator across all topics within the community.  If necessary I will remove myself from DMR to continue that job as I feel that dMw's standards are more important than my DMR membership, despite my passion and wish for DMR to succeed.  

ok me here... just to say i dont think that was right to close Bast's thread he has a very valid point !!! esp following on from Jas last week.
 
I been telling ppl all week not to pug toc 10.. cos that was the order !!!
 
on 2 occasions i had to ask ppl not to pug it. ok 1 was space new baby etc and i said to him go for it as he's kinda stuck with times he can go on but hes asked innocently in guild for help and i told him no !!!.. we may need ppl.
 
Coulda gone friday or sat myself im ****ed now means ive missed 15 badges for no reason !!!!i need them for tier nine like alot of others....dont get me wrong no problem missing a full raid on saturday thats the way it goes sometimes theres space, sometimes not however as said i told ppl not to go all week...not been myself and voila late decision and its all okay !!!!
 
rule was set last week !
 
changed on sat night with a few good raiders online kinda seems set to suit !
 
More ****ed at thread closed really nanny state etc all our valued raiders have a voice.... down to GL and GM to shut down if we feel its wrong soz TL no disrespect but he has a valid point and i for one would like to make that decision as a guild leader.
 
FB

[FatBob]

I have deleted what was a bad post from me - frustration had the better of me at the time please accept my apologies.
 
 
From your position as a forum moderator i guess we just have different levels of real world language but then i guess i need to understand that this isnt the real world...its a forum ! not a building site, for my part i'll try my hardest to remember that in future.
 
I accept that moderation is required and has always been here and i understand that if it wasn't here most threads would read like a script from an episode of the wire so please continue to do what you do, in return i will try make your lifes easier by thinking first before typing !
 
FB

[TeaLeaf]

No Hard feeling FB.  Se you at the bar in a couple of weeks.

For info.  Ice's reply:

I can do that and i normally do but yesterday i didn't as already has been noticed. Simple reason: Almost the whole leader group was messing around incl Gandy.   But i will send a pm next time to the leaders even if they all messed up etc. Or post something in the classleader forum, if i have acces ofc.
 
Thnx for the reminder
 
Icy

[Azunai]

We need to respect community standards I get that, but I fear that closing down this one, given my post last week, may have caused a bit of "Oh, so if anyone but the Officers post rants then it gets closed down".

Ice had a point, I messed it up a bit and the idea behind the ToC10 thing wasn't clear enough, to me either, that 2 october post did give me the impression that we weren't gonna do it on off days anymore as well, I just simply forgot about it as it wasn't followed up on.

That said I do think the response from multiple parties is a bit overreacted. The end result is that they missed 1 ToC10 raid in 1 week, which given the fact that it's 10, they might have missed anyway. 15 emblems is nothing seeing as we can get that ammount every week within the timeframe of ~1.5 hours, not counting 25man, dailies, and stuff like VoA and Ony. Easy for me to say as I was there, I know, but you'll just have to take my word on it that I'd happily sit out.

Finally, we should have just been more clear on what the idea behind that 2 october post etc. was, imo. No use hiding behind the fact that it did say "PuG". My thought is that we simply didn't give clear feedback on what the idea was, and now we pay the price because it upsets people. This one is on us if you ask me.

[FatBob]

Indeed hopefully i will TL (you're buying though )

[Gandalf]

No Hard feeling FB.  Se you at the bar in a couple of weeks.

For info.  Ice's reply:

And I was only in there because a tank was needed. Though if Ice was online, then he could have easily tanked for you.

My plan that night was to check the AH then log off and watch a movie.

Anyway, yes it wasn't as clear as it should have been and I have posted making it clearer for all. Let's put this down to a learning experience as it appears that we do need to spell out everything so there is no confusion!

[TeaLeaf]

We need to respect community standards I get that, but I fear that closing down this one, given my post last week, may have caused a bit of "Oh, so if anyone but the Officers post rants then it gets closed down".

I doubt anyone will make that link, it was the result of a series of posts all ranting that reached a line in the sand and then crossed it.  It would not matter who had posted it, a moderator would have acted be it me or in this case Penfold initially.

[Baylien]

There will always be misunderstandings and disagreements in any social community, we just have to deal with it in a civil and constructive manner.
I think the change of raid schedules is a non-issue now as we know to add 'in effect from....' on any notifications
Sorry if this seems mute, but thought I'd show my interest.
/Baylien