A raiding suggestion

[Améthyst]

Since the inclusion of former Ovo members into our Guild there seems to be a group not of a standard to raid deep into ICC but would like to raid none-the-less.

 

The inclusion of some of these members on the Thursday night raid for the fist few bosses is useful to gear them up, but it will be a long time before they get enough Emblems of Frost  for full sets of tier 10. In addition some cannot raid as early as 20:15 (GT) due to parental commitments.

 

Would it be possible for the guild organise a second raid group for those not picked to raid ICC to raid lower Northrend Raids on Sunday and Tuesday nights, including the awarding of dkp?  Not only would this give us all some kind of group/team building activity but it would also give us valuable raiding experience.

 

Perhaps this group can start to raid an hour later at 21:15 (GT)?  Even if we cannot raid for a full 3 hours, less is more!

 

It would be helpful & good for moral if an experienced member or officer would join the group each night to help with tactics and general advice.

 

The above has come from a few suggestions made by dMr members over the past few weeks. I am hoping that this post will start a discussion on what non-elite raiders would like in the way of raiding.

[TeaLeaf]

If I'm not involved elsewhere I'd be happy to help on something like this, I'm sure many others would be too.  Just depends which night.  Often very late on a Friday is a good time to kick off an alt run.

However, I would also say that I think we could push deeper into ICC than you think.  The last DMR alt run I got involved with killed 6 bosses and only stopped as it was 3am, so don't set your sights too low - as long as people know what they are doing and can play their toons effectively then you have a more than decent chance of killing bosses.

Re the badges:  I struggle to see how most people do not already have close to if not full T10 already?  Most of my alts have acquired the gear just through daily random heroics and some weekly raid quests, so I would hope the badge issue is not as big as you fear!

[Tirkad]

I'm interested on the tuesday raid @ 21:15, becouse i could (barely) be back home in time for it. So if you have a free spot for a tank/healer/dps, just poke me, and i'll be happy to join.

[walrob]

If I'm not involved elsewhere I'd be happy to help on something like this, I'm sure many others would be too.  Just depends which night.  Often very late on a Friday is a good time to kick off an alt run.

However, I would also say that I think we could push deeper into ICC than you think.  The last DMR alt run I got involved with killed 6 bosses and only stopped as it was 3am, so don't set your sights too low - as long as people know what they are doing and can play their toons effectively then you have a more than decent chance of killing bosses.

Re the badges:  I struggle to see how most people do not already have close to if not full T10 already?  Most of my alts have acquired the gear just through daily random heroics and some weekly raid quests, so I would hope the badge issue is not as big as you fear!

That's great TL. Nice for you to volunteer.

I think that Ame was trying to point out that these runs are for those players not regularly raiding and not on the progression raids...alts of those players to be of lower priority, apart from one officer/senior member.

Late any day may be a problem...kids tend to get up early (mine at 05:30 to 06:00 every morning - ug). Anything much past midnight (UK time) would be a problem :-(

Doing daily HC, weekly raid , and raiding ICC once a week:

14 from heroics, 5 from weekly and 8(?) from raiding ICC first 4 bosses on Thursdays; thats 29 each week max

for four pieces of T10: IIRC its (2 x 95) + (2 x 50) = 190 + 100 = 290

That is 10 weeks minimum, more if I have my armour costs wrong.

Then there is all the peripheral gear, getting the 5th piece of T10, etc. That is a lot of dedicated time that RL will tend to spoil :-(

...and once geared, it is still likely that we'd be "all dressed up with no where to go", unless we have enough raiders to form a second group (more on this  in a separate post).

I understand your points TL and welcome such a positive stance; I just feel that it is a little unrealistic.

Robert
aka Treekin, et al

[walrob]

I agree with Ame that a second raid group would be good for the Guild.

Personally I would like to see the organisation of a raid group with priority for  non-"elite" raiders go through all the lower Northrend instances, and be included in mixed* 10-man ICC runs, providing that they have a minimum of T9 gear.

*A good mix of "elite" and non-"elite" players, not only would it reinforce the social aspect of the guild, it would allow non-"elite" players the chance to see more of ICC. As mentioned by TL, we may be able to get further that Saurfang (or however you spell it :-).

Going one further, could we actively recruit other raiders so that we could form a second 25-man (non-"elite") raid group?

Of course, this is only what I would like...hopefully others will contribute with their own (hopefully better) ideas :-)

Robert
aka Treekin, Katee, Fixxit

[DFE]

I agree with Ame that a second raid group would be good for the Guild.
...
Going one further, could we actively recruit other raiders so that we could form a second 25-man (non-"elite") raid group?

To be honest, I personally cant imagine 50 people online at the same time, making two raiding groups of them, with a good setup, divide them into "elite" and "non-elite". Something else may be doing ICC 25 alt runs mixed with those that had not the chance to run main 25 man but in my opinion, 10 mans are much more fun for alt runs

Personally I would like to see the organisation of a raid group with priority for  non-"elite" raiders go through all the lower Northrend instances, and be included in mixed* 10-man ICC runs, providing that they have a minimum of T9
*A good mix of "elite" and non-"elite" players, not only would it reinforce the social aspect of the guild, it would allow non-"elite" players the chance to see more of ICC. As mentioned by TL, we may be able to get further that Saurfang (or however you spell it :-).

We have alt runs doing easily 6-7 bosses. I remember I was in one such alt run with you on last wednesday, which was the first time for my tank in ICC10  because I missed all our alt runs due to RL and because all those "LFM ICC 10 Achi and GS 5300 or GTFO". There were also progression 10 mans running at the same time. I would assume that if I join alt run on such night, there will not be many experienced and well geared people in the group. If I remember well, we had 6 or 7 people getting their Lower Spire achievement that night

Also now when we aim to kill the Lich King in 10 mans, I dont think it is a good idea to mix in non-experienced players (note that I speak as an outsider here, I was not in those progression groups for most of the time due to RL)

In my opinion, having 2-3 progression 10 man teams that have more or less the same people involved is better idea than to mix those team every week.

[Leemo]

Robert - into your badge calculation you should add VoA, which has the chance of dropping T10 and has frost badges from Toravon.

Regarding the "lower Northrend raids" unfortunately due to Blizzard's sheer retardedness it is quicker to do ICC 5mans and ToC10 (which is a 30min raid).

Players are able to skip huge swathes of raiding content, including Ulduar which is criminal in my opinion (the most enjoyable raid in WoTLK).

So gearing up isn't an issue given the current badge system, I managed to get past most of the bosses with iLevel 245 + 251 gear.

However, I do agree that the 10mans do need some structure, particularly during the week.

I'm currently posting Icc10s on Monday, Wednesday and sometimes Friday - anyone is free to signup for these. And the more that do, the more likely we're going to get 2 groups going.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

We have been talking in officers regarding the 10 man runs ... As such we have tried to run 2x10 man in the past and it falls down... It dilutes the pool of players available over the week to a point where you can't run any.. You end up with 17 people online wanting to run all locked to different instances:doh:  

I'm not saying it can't be done as I would love to see multiple raids running tho we just need to take care not to shoot off our own feet

[DFE]

Jas, what about creating 10 man raiding teams off approx. 15 people? Like that people would be doing 10 mans with very similar group of people, will get used to   each other and in the end , you know, the teams can yell at each other "hey, RG Noob, you are still at Fester? Our RG Imba has Sindy down :boxing:"  
We had something like this in Ovo and in my opinion it worked (though, I dont know how officers felt about it) - one knew which days was his RG doing 10 mans.
Anyways, just a thought, perhaps we are just seeking issues where there arent any.

[Leemo]

At one point we did split the guild 50-50 into two raid groups, trying to balance them out as much as possible.

I don't think it worked, it may have improved a few players in terms of gear and experience, but it overall it seemed to handicap the better players.

The main problem was tanks and healers, once you have set groups if healers and tanks are missing, or some casuals don't show up, it can seriously gimp the progress of either group.

I agree with Jas, particularly on the dilution effect.

It was painful sometimes in Ovo to see some of your best DPS having to sit out because they were locked to a raid that could only run once a week because of absences and so on.

Thus Preventing them stepping into a progress night later on in the week.

I don't know where the solution lies, I think recruiting more healers in the short term would definitely help (I'm currently trying to get a friend of mine who plays resto shammy to apply).

Until then, all I could suggest was for those missing out on Icc10 to take the initiative by posting some raids on the calendar, see what the response is like.

[walrob]

Robert - into your badge calculation you should add VoA, which has the chance of dropping T10 and has frost badges from Toravon.

Regarding the "lower Northrend raids" unfortunately due to Blizzard's sheer retardedness it is quicker to do ICC 5mans and ToC10 (which is a 30min raid).

Players are able to skip huge swathes of raiding content, including Ulduar which is criminal in my opinion (the most enjoyable raid in WoTLK).

So gearing up isn't an issue given the current badge system, I managed to get past most of the bosses with iLevel 245 + 251 gear.

However, I do agree that the 10mans do need some structure, particularly during the week.

I'm currently posting Icc10s on Monday, Wednesday and sometimes Friday - anyone is free to signup for these. And the more that do, the more likely we're going to get 2 groups going.

Just been looking at Wowhead. They don't list Toravon under the EoF entry nor list EoF as a potential drop under Toravon's entry. As Toravon has 119 possible drops (in 10 or 25), the chance of a piece of a suitable piece of T10 dropping, even on class runs is very small, assuming an equal chance of any one piece dropping. Of course, I could be reading it wrong or Wowhead may be wrong.

I was expressing that I would like to do the lower Northrend raids. I realise that I don't have to...I want to see the whole game.

Well done for getting past most bosses with T9 gear. As I am relatively new to the game, to get into the second wing of ICC,  T10 seems a better option for me...and Sanctified is but a dream :-) I am still learning, but thanks to Sithy, Limpsy, Brazier and others, I feel that I am making progress as my DPS will testify (although still below the levels of the aforementioned).

I welcome the introduction of more structured 10 mans and your organisation of ICC10 runs. As you mentioned it, could we have a regular ToC10 night (pretty please :-)?

Robert
aka Treekin - the Tree who is not a tree.

[Leemo]

Perhaps an oversight on Wowhead's part, but Toravon does drop 2 x Emblems of Frost in both 10 and 25man modes (http://www.wowwiki.com/Toravon_the_Ice_Watcher)

Regarding ToC 10 - it's a 20-30minute raid at most, personally I don't think it's worth putting on the calendar given the speed at which a group can be pulled together and clear it.

ToC25 might be a good idea to calendar at weekends perhaps, but again it's ridiculously easy to faceroll through even on 25man.

However, I'm happy to raid-lead VoA 25s and ToC 25s if there's enough interest for guild runs.

Also - I'd like to see ToC 25 heroic on the calendar for a raid night, it still offers some BiS gear (I believe, feel free to correct me on this) and might get us used to the normal-heroic difficulty gradient or whatever.

[DFE]

They don't list Toravon under the EoF entry nor list EoF as a potential drop under Toravon's entry

Perhaps an oversight on Wowhead's part, but Toravon does drop 2 x Emblems of Frost in both 10 and 25man modes

These Emblems are not implemented in the game as boss drops, you simply get them when you kill the boss without ever seeing them on the boss corpse. The only loot table it is on is LK and still only it was looted one single time - so rather wrong data. As Lee said, Toravon "drops" it both in 10 and 25 man version so the total amount of Frosties you can get per week is 81

[walrob]

These Emblems are not implemented in the game as boss drops, you simply get them when you kill the boss without ever seeing them on the boss corpse. The only loot table it is on is LK and still only it was looted one single time - so rather wrong data. As Lee said, Toravon "drops" it both in 10 and 25 man version so the total amount of Frosties you can get per week is 81

Cool...that's really good to know...so anyone up for a VoA run...?

Oops sorry wrong place :-)

Robert
aka Treekin, the sorry-ass noob