I quit

[walrob]

I have been a member of this Guild for approximately six months. During that time I have seen it unsteadily drift from a truly social, raiding Guild to a far more hardcore raiding Guild. While I acknowledge that some efforts are made to help and gear up some members, it has become clear that the Guild is, in the main, run by the elite for the elite (and their alts).

Over the past few weeks I have been treated appallingly by four officers on three separate occasions:

Firstly, by TL who attacked me in a public forum and subsequently by Jas for not ââ,¬Ëœallowingââ,¬â,,¢ me a right of reply. While I strongly disagreed with this, out of respect to the Guild, I complied.

Lee poured his derision upon me in raid chat for asking a question which, although quite basic, was outside my knowledge. As a social Guild, I would have thought that helping others to gain experience and knowledge was at the heart of the Guildââ,¬â,,¢s ethos. I found this humiliating and totally unjustified, especially from an officer. When I complained to Jas, no meaningful sanctions were taken against Lee ââ,¬â€œ not even an apology was forthcoming.

When unceremoniously dumped from a raid to the reserves, without being informed or asked to leave, I expressed how rude I found such treatment (in raid chat) before complying. As a particularly pertinent aside, this view (that this was rude) was echoed by Dannage in raid chat. I did not mind being replaced in the raid (indeed I expected it) as it progressed to the higher levels of ICC, but did object to the way it was done. I didn't expect a reply to my comment, I would have liked an acknowledgement that the fashion in which it was done was poor, and an apology would have been ideal. What followed were a barrage of decidedly unfriendly whispers from Whitey (with subsequent, courteous replies from me) where he used phrases such as ââ,¬Å"ffsââ,¬Â and told me that I had a ââ,¬Å"problemââ,¬Â because I insisted that I be treated with courtesy and respect. Whitey only relented when I suggested that we agree to disagree and we should move on. Whitey informed me that (apparently) the officers were ââ,¬Ëœtoo busyââ,¬â,,¢ to consider courtesy, even though we were all on the customary ââ,¬Ëœbreakââ,¬â,,¢ after Saurfang.

...and when I logged on this evening, I found that Whitey had the gall to have removed me from the raid calendar...presumably as a result of the above conversation. No notice or explanation was given via the in-game mail...just auto-generated notification that I had been removed. I find this highly petulant and a disgrace to the position of officer.

If this behaviour had come from ordinary dMr members, I would have dealt with it in my inimitable, robust fashion and moved on. However, these people are officers and should treat us all with courtesy and respect; I am upset and dismayed that this was not afforded to me from those who should set an example.

It has become clear that for whatever reason, I am no longer welcome in this Guild. I am saddened by this, as I have met a lot of really great people, made friends with many, and have begun to make new friends as the former Ovo members have joined us. Indeed, I hope that those who have joined party with me have found me sociable and where I could be, helpful. More importantly (for me) I hope that I helped you to have fun.

I speculate that I am no longer welcome because I do not give others the adulation that they seem to need or feel that they deserve (and have become accustomed to from others). In addition, it is because I will stand up for myself (and others), I insist that I be treated with respect, and have no qualms in robustly asserting what I feel are my rights as a member of the Guild and as a human beingââ,¬Â¦oh yes, and I donââ,¬â,,¢t have the gear and experience necessary to ââ,¬Ëœfit inââ,¬â,,¢.

Better gear, ever greater DPS, and progress ever deeper into ICC has considerable importance in game, but is a distant second to my priorityââ,¬Â¦having fun with others.

In my opinion, there is a lack of courtesy and respect from the officers towards me (and others), and there is a greater emphasis on ââ,¬Ëœprogress raidingââ,¬â,,¢ at the cost to the social aspects of the Guild. I conclude that as things are, the direction and goals of the Guild are not compatible with mine. Therefore, I have (with considerable despondency), moved all my characters out of the Guild.

I would like to maintain my login on the forums to keep in touch with friends and follow the progress of dMr members, but as this is not Guild policy, I very much doubt that I will be afforded that privilege.

I will strive to continue improving, and maybe even face the Lich King himself one day, unfortunately it is unlikely to be with dMr.

I wish all officers, class leaders and ordinary members of dMr every success in whatever they strive for - both within and outside the World of Warcraft. Above all, I hope that you all have fun doing it.

I hope to see you around Aszune.

Robert, the sorry-ass noob

aka: Treekin, Katee and Fixxit (and others)

[TeaLeaf]

I wish all officers, class leaders and ordinary members of dMr every success in whatever they strive for - both within and outside the World of Warcraft. Above all, I hope that you all have fun doing it.

Robert, the sorry-ass noob

When you leave the guild you lose access to the DMR member's section Robert.  Nobody is banning you, so you retain access to the rest of the forums.

GL wherever you go, I hope you find a guild & community that's a better fit for you.

[Leemo]

Lee poured his derision upon me in raid chat for asking a question which, although quite basic, was outside my knowledge. As a social Guild, I would have thought that helping others to gain experience and knowledge was at the heart of the Guildââ,¬â,,¢s ethos. I found this humiliating and totally unjustified, especially from an officer. When I complained to Jas, no meaningful sanctions were taken against Lee ââ,¬â€œ not even an apology was forthcoming.

On Saurfang I said: "Omg don't be so dense"

If you believe that to be "derision" you must be hyper-sensitive - DMR is positively a Utopia compared to most guilds in this game, which are god awful bear pits full of selfish loot-whores.

On the one hand I dish out sarcasm to people who a) don't research bosses b) don't prepare for raids (Raid Frames, for example) c) expect to raid END GAME content when they aren't prepared.

But on the other I help people, which in your case I did, with ToC 25 invites and loot from there, in addition to the 3.3 Balance Druid rotation guide I sent to you via PM on these forums (which you didn't acknowledge, or didn't get).

[sheepy]

His wow badge has now been removed as he is no longer a member of the guild.

I would personally refute a lot of his claims and I would hope that no one else feels like they are miss treated, if you ever have and isse please speek to an officer.

/rant on

he was not attacked mearly questioned about something he said and took it the wrong way, when in raids he didn't ask about somethings he didn't understand and when was told about them got his knickers in a twist. He jumped to a conclusion about being dropped when we as the officers were discussing group set up and playing with the groups to look at setup and then when he was dropped made personal attacks/comments to an officer through wispers, this was totally un acceptable.

The reason he was removed from the raid calendar was simply after the last episode the officers had a discussion and it was decided that we couldn't put up with that sort of behaviour in raids so he was dropepd to a social member, hence not having invites to raids.

/rant off

[Vargen]

This is why I had a whole team of diplomatic and politically correct officers around me when we had SOG

Not taking sides here, but I do see the point about not being told before replaced in a raid and such. Even if the bump from raid is expected, it makes the person feel a bit more appreciated if they get a little heads up in stead of just being replaced.

It's not much fun to sit one out, but most people gladly do it for the good of the many, as long as they feel part of the group.

[Whitey]

Not taking sides here, but I do see the point about not being told before replaced in a raid and such. Even if the bump from raid is expected, it makes the person feel a bit more appreciated if they get a little heads up in stead of just being replaced.

It's not much fun to sit one out, but most people gladly do it for the good of the many, as long as they feel part of the group.

Just to put the record straight on the way it happened.  The officers/role leaders were moving people around in the groups during the break, as we usually do after the first wing, to see what we needed for the second wing in terms of the class needs, dps and making sure people got a chance to raid.  It had been mentioned in TS (RL channel) that Treekin's dps was too low for the second wing and he was moved to group 7, at this point or shortly after Treekin asked in raid chat if he would be needed for the second wing and I replied that he wouldn't (my mistake for trying to be helpful so that he could go and do something else rather than hanging around).  I should have just shut up and waited for one of the Ranged Leads to have a chat with him in a whisper.  When I tried to explain the situation in a whisper to Treekin, all I got were patronising comments about my manners and he even mentioned that he seemed to be the only person in the UK with any manners (I did say 'ffs' in the whisper which I should not have said but by this time I couldn't believe what was being said to me).  Rob mentioned I "relented" when he said we would agree to disagree, No, at this point on another officers advice I stuck him on ignore.  As far as removing Treekin from the calendar, that was as a direct result of him being returned to social rank which was done by someone else before I removed him from the calendar.

[Padding]

I dont see most of his points and i think he's expecting something else of the guild than what can be delivered at times. IMHO the leaders have to satisfy most of the raiding group which is trying to master ICC25 and that involves setting the right team at the right places in the instance. Call it hardcore or not, its the only way to create the progression that most are looking for.

As counts for ICC10, you cant generate teams that will always fit everyone. Since its ffa, reople that are more hardcore will always try to make a grp that fits their needs so they can try to reach LK. I find that both reasonable and sane.

And to Vargen, you cant hide behind Bastet anymore :devil:

[Trickboxx]

Not taking sides here, but I do see the point about not being told before replaced in a raid and such. Even if the bump from raid is expected, it makes the person feel a bit more appreciated if they get a little heads up in stead of just being replaced.

Although I really havent followed this "happening" around treekin and therefor I cant give my opinion on that subject I do agree with Vargen here that if you are getting bumbed out of a raid a small whisper why would be very nice.
I didnt get into a icc10 man a few days ago, got a little whisper from lee why not and that is very helpful imo....

for the record I dont know what happened during that raid with treekin or the other things in his post so this is not particulairy about treekin, but just a message when you are getting bumbed out of a raid sounds very reasonable.

Trickboxx,

[TeaLeaf]

Although I really havent followed this "happening" around treekin and therefor I cant give my opinion on that subject I do agree with Vargen here that if you are getting bumbed out of a raid a small whisper why would be very nice.
I didnt get into a icc10 man a few days ago, got a little whisper from lee why not and that is very helpful imo....

Indeed, which as explained is normal practice, but Walrob asked specifically so was answered - and at that point the typical member does not normally get abusive to officers and throw their toys out of the pram.

[jantore]

Indeed, which as explained is normal practice, but Walrob asked specifically so was answered - and at that point the typical member does not normally get abusive to officers and throw their toys out of the pram.

Agreed, after raiding with Sora in TBC i know all too well how a hardcore raiding guild does there planning on bosses and so on. Now i was fortunate to be one of first two then three locks in the guild. So a spot was almost always a sure thing. But for certain bosses locks was a no go. And we would hafto rotate who did what. If u where not needed someone would let you know and you where requierd to stay in a few minutes distance to the instance incase you where needed for next boss or the boss after that.
 
When we raided with Silver Oak Guardians it was a diffrent story, we had a rather large raid group and at one point i think we had something like 6-7 locks. So there where always someone that would need to sit out. And as far as i know everyone would be happy with the roatation cycle. And if you had the loot from a certain boss, you would give the spot to someone in your class so that they would have a chance on getting it on that boss.
 
It's all about seeing the big picture, what benefits the raid groups progress, and helps other raid members to gear up and what fight can you handle and what fight do you need to practice on. Most of the time the lower geard, more inexperienced player would sit out on the "new" bosses and join in if needed or when the boss is downd and the group knows what to do. So that they can learn the person that don't know that encounter.
 
But in general, the raid leaders do what they think are the best for the raid group. And yes the class leader will hafto inform ppl if they are sitting out or not. But they do shuffle around on the setup, so dont worry if you get into the dreaded group 7
 
Now after doing 2 ICC 10 man raids i think can say that the raid leaders do know what they are doing, and are not unfair. But i could be wrong.
 
Vargen the officers in SoG where just amazing, best i have ever come across
 
JT

[Vargen]

Vargen the officers in SoG where just amazing, best i have ever come across
 
JT

Indeed they were. Oh the good old days

We had TL, the proper and politically correct spokesman.
Bastet, who always made sure I looked like the good guy, as well as his loot management along with Tanales the programmer.
Luna, the realist. You really need dutch ppl for that job you know

Come to think of it, it really was a whole damn team of officers!
Tenilia, Kreuz, Padding, Ragnarh, Pentesilea... did I forget someone?


Back on topic though. I do know most of dMw in general to be kind and pollite, so if that was unclear in my previous post, I apologize. It cannot be said too many times though, communication is the most important thing. Even when I raided with Sora, you would be asked to sit out, you wouldn't be bumped. So hardcore or not, there is always time for manners