webpage makers.

[Gandalf]

true, but after you've cut your teeth on wysiwydg (usually ) then it's the only way to go.

html isn't hard, if I can do it anyone can.

[smilodon]

So following Doggers decision not to mince words....WYSIWYG editors are basically crap to varying degrees. They interpret your commands into html and you have to settle for what they produce. Invariably they don't do a fantastic job of it. Frontpage is a disgrace and Dreamweaver is adequate at best.

I don't believe there is a serious professional designer who doesn't go line by line through WYSIWYG created html before they ever consider publishing it.

Dreamweaver etc. can produce OK code, that may be browser independent and just might be standards compliant at a push. If you are creating a simple home page then these apps alone may hack it. If you want to do quality work where you control exactly what you are creating down to the pixel then text editors, or text editors used with WYSIWYG editors are a must.

[Doorman]

[TeaLeaf]

As I said, CoffeeCup is WYSIWYG, but also has a load of real simple tools to help you along.  I am not a web designer, I like basic web design software, I like CoffeeCup.

TL.

[Anonymous]

..and I would remind everyone that what was requested is something that will work for a novice lest we lose track of the requirement  

I accept all the points about "real men don't eat quiche"  

[smilodon]

I take your point, but do you want to stay a novice?

If you do then there's lots of advice above as to what software to choose. If you want to move on from novice to competent then I still maintain you need to use a text editor or at least a text editor in conjunction with a WYSIWYG program

[Doorman]

Originally posted by smilodon@Oct 10 2003, 09:54 PM
I take your point, but do you want to stay a novice?

If you do then there's lots of advice above as to what software to choose. If you want to move on from novice to competent then I still maintain you need to use a text editor or at least a text editor in conjunction with a WYSIWYG program

I can feel the 'incoming' already, but isn't that like saying "It's better to light a fire by rubbing two sticks together than switching on the gas"

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by BlueBall@Oct 10 2003, 01:33 PM
..and I would remind everyone that what was requested is something that will work for a novice lest we lose track of the requirement

I accept all the points about "real men don't eat quiche"

BB - you can try CoffeeCup at the LAN - it is aimed at novice but also allows you to switch to full-on geek mode when you want to do so.

TL.

[smilodon]

Originally posted by Doorman+Oct 10 2003, 10:41 PM-->

[Gandalf]

Exactly right. Once you've got your site up with a wysiwyg editor you can then start to play with a text based editor.

It's not as difficult as it sounds. The one I use for example has lots of shortcuts so you can add a quick table by telling it how many rows and columns you want. Adding images is also as simple as clicking the add image button and then browsing to your image using an explorer box.

Also clicking on a tag makes the left menu list all of the various attributes and options for that tag so adding attributes is easy. It also has a very good code interrogator/validator. It will tell you if anything is wrong with your code by clicking this option. You can then click on the error in the error window and your cursor in the main page will jump to the offending piece. Helps on those big pages.

The key to a good website is not its look, it's how well you can navigate. Menu design is everything. If your just after a few pages, then you'll have nothing to worry about.

The simplest way is to use tables. You can create most designs by using tables alone, and if you are previewing the design in a browser and it looks 'odd' just give the table a border so you can see all of the lines and that will usually tell you where you're going wrong

But that is my opinion. I guess I'm too much of a perfectionist (all of my code needs to look just right, even though it displays the same the indenting and attributes need to be perfect!) and unfortunatly the code from a wysiwyg editor is just not what I like.

Still, I started out with MS FP95 and worked with that for a while. I then found aceHTML (was version 2 then I think) and started to use that. What I'd do was layout the page in FP and then open it up into ace and edit the code so it wasn't so bloaty. Thus learning html in the process. I continued doing this for a year or so, then I just used ace exclusively and just used FP to upload the site to the webspace.

Then Stryker showed me the joys of Linux and Apache and I now use aceHTML and aceFTP for everything

I got where I am today by using wysiwyg courtesy of FP, but do not blinker yourself with these as they are not the best way to go. Learn, advance, and when you finally code your site yourself you can sit back and feel good.

[smite]

It was slowhand who first asked the question.

While you all have points on what to do/use please remember that not all of us work with PC's all day and we only take it on as a hobby.
A lot of what you are saying is above my head and what we dont want is to put someone off by debating how it is best done..

Remember the question was:-

Lo fellas.
Could you point me at any webpage making progs that would be usefull to a novice............... errm thats me actually.

Remember the key word here is NOVICE.


SLoWHaND

Not a dig its just that you are starting too get a little advanced

Were not all as clever as you lot    

[smilodon]

Perhapse the question needs a little clarification ?

A novice that wants to do what ? Knock up a quick web site or learn how to code html site?

There's good suggestions for both in this thread  

[SLoWHaND]

Well.............
All this NOVICE wanted to do was make  simple web pages.
Something to display piccies on rather than bloat out the forum with graphics.
Maybe something in the way of a slideshow setup.

SLoWHaND

[smilodon]

PM replied to  

Something like THIS?

Full web site



HERE

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by SLoWHaND@Oct 11 2003, 04:09 PM
Well.............
All this NOVICE wanted to do was make  simple web pages.
Something to display piccies on rather than bloat out the forum with graphics.
Maybe something in the way of a slideshow setup.

SLoWHaND

Then I recommend a program called iView Media. In this program you can organize images in a database style but also make slideshows in HTML by just selecting the images.

This can also be done from within Photoshop.