Chiefs & Indians

[TeaLeaf]

With the recent absorption of new officers from OVO we are distinctly top heavy as a raid team now and I really do think it is time to prune people who are not contributing at the required level to help refocus who does what.

I'll leave you to discuss, but I posted the numbers in the CL thread about DFE.

8 Officers (ignoring me)
6 (proposed) CLs

That's 14 of the 25 man raid in charge. That number is wrong.

Given the number of officers it might well be time to radically trim the CL rank.  The Cl rank was introduced when the Officer numbers were small but help was needed to cover all of the roles, but now that you have 8 Officers there is sufficient depth to cover most of that work and I see very little need for some of the CLs who have that rank to retain it (based on the little work or leadership they have shown).

Tanales - a 39% attender, lovely guy, I like him, but seriously he cannot hold down the rank with that attendance.

Bellanie - 71% attender but that figure covers the fact he is simply unable to complete a full raid these days and his performance as a non-resto shaman is poor imo.  Lovely chap, but he is not strong enough on class performance and his attendance is weak enough to make his position very difficult to support.

Limps - 54% attender, and only really able to show up the majority of the time if it is a Tuesday - and *always* states he has not time to do any CL work.

Aldaren - 63% attender but I see more effort going in from him so at last he is doing something even though he struggles to make Tuesdays.

Leemo - 61% attender and again I see effort going in on the forums and in-game.


The attendance numbers alone make nasty reading folks.  You cannot have CLs that are no shows, let alone ones which are no shows and say they have no time to do the work.

I would propose Council  consider reallocating the Role Leader roles to Council members, with perhaps only a couple of exceptions where needed.


Even DFE has issues, he's a 44% attender but I love the forum effort he puts in and would more thanoverlook his low attendance to get him a CL spot.  DFE is the type of guy who is putting the effort in and should have the rank despite his attendance.

There is still a place for a CL(role leader) rank where someone shows oustanding commitment to it (like DFE does imo) but as an outsider you have a bunch of people who have the rank but really do not drive things forward for you and the 'committee' is getting ever bigger.  

I think it's time for a radical pruning of numbers to make things more manageable and to reflect the people who actually do the work.

My 2 cents.

[Whitey]

I agree TL. I'd like to get DFE in as a RL due to the work he puts and I see no point in Tan being a CL as I don't see him doing much even when he is there to raid.  As Bell said himself, he is now melee and shouldn't be a CL for Healing (unless he is still helping with development and analysis in that area).

[TeaLeaf]

Well, you have 2 CLs who have volunteered to step down so I think some action might be needed.  Are we accepting their resignations?

Following on from this, let's also look at Council - we have some in Council who are not really about these days.  For example:

Evoxer has not even been on these forums since 17th May and his last raid was in January.  Sorry Evo, but I think it's probably fair to be demoted to social member rank whilst you enjoy real life.


Once you trim the chiefs to a more realistic number, let's look to assign the Role Leader responsibilities to those who are actively here and able to 'lead' the role for the guild.  Who, if you were given a free hand and ignoring anyone in the role at the moment, would you ideally want to lead these areas:

(name up to 2 but no more than 2 per role area)

Tanks: ?
Healers: ?
Melee DPS: ?
Ranged DPS: ?


My apologies to folks if they think I am being a' pushy pain in the arse', but I am looking in from the outside as an officer in Eluo and recognising things which I think need attention and action to keep the guild driving forward.  So my intentions are to help the guild......

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Tanks Hal/Lee
Healer Jas / Maypal
Melee Whitey/Ald
Ranged Gond/Limps

[TeaLeaf]

Brutal honesty time: Limps cannot do the job.  If you ask him he will deny any time to do any of this and always raises this first when the possibility of work arises.  Demote him imo.

Attendance Spreadsheet:
I've asked Oldbloke to look into automating this spreadsheet to pull out the data from the DKP website into a web page which caqn be queried to display the data in the format we want.  It might help review things.  However, a week has gone by since that spreadsheet and out of all of the officers I see only 3 downloads of the latest version and very little feedback apart from Whitey.  Has anyone else looked at it?  No offence, but did I totally waste my time?  Sometimes I feel like I post something I think is important in here and nobody cares about it.

I have a feeling that I have to come up with some ideas. But there is so much to say I simply dont know where should I begin so my post might look a bit... strange.
I dont like raid to be called. Though, in my opinion that is not the worst thing that can happen. That would be a raid with people in it that dont know tactics, dont know their class or they know both but dont perform it properly and thus spoiling the experience for others. That raid would look like those terrible  5 attempts on BQL.
There was pretty good feel of progress a month ago also people were attending. But in last couple of weeks I start to have the feeling that there are simply too many people in raid that get dragged through, or are lootwhores or simply they dont care about the guild too much. If something, I dont like THIS ATTITUDE and one of possible displays of this is how people behave in raid - "I dont give a s**t about single targeting Plagued Scientist (because I dont even know how they affect the other 20+ mobs) so I will just AoE the pack".  "I dont give a s**t about switching targets, others will kill it anyways". "I dont give a **** about reading up on the boss mechanics for 10-15 minutes, it will be explained anyways and people will not be looking bad at me if I screw up because the encounter is new to me" You could have seen WAY TOO MUCH of this recently. I mean, it can happen, but you see the same people doing it all over again. That is frustrating. Yet I wouldnt blame 10 man runs (although  they provide much more fun because these people are usually not there and people doing progression runs in ICC10 generally show up every time for 25 man runs.

I think it is perfect time now for the class leaders to look closely at their respective squads - although it would be hard to achieve for some class leaders since they havent attended much recently - and identify the weaknesses.  In my eyes this would not mean step from casual to hard core, rather it would strengthen the feeling of friendly and still progress-oriented guild. Otherwise I fear the efflux of some very good raiders - and however sorry I would feel for seeing it, I would understand.
This is not intended as a QQ post excusing me quitting from the guild - you will not see me doing that simply because there are way too many people that I like to play with so that not even Deepriedegg, the Light of Dawn would force me to do it. Rather, see this post as a "call for arms" to save this guild as 25 man guild.

Same as Sith, I am too curious where some raiders are. Same as him I think the attendance during World Cup (1 month from Friday on) might be limited. Also there is summer vacation in one month. However, I dont think switch to other raiding days might help.

I am also a bit curious if the lockout extension - which I fully support - might have turned couple of people off. If this is true, it would be a bitter fact to learn that people are actually more concerned about loot than progress. Also I fully support DKP substraction for no-shows and I would go far enough to do it retroactively for this week.  Order has to be restored and rules kept otherwise the future of 25man is unclear at best.

Please, do your best to show that dMr are in better, much better shape than they look like now.

DFE (aka the guy that can only raid twice a week now and still he dares to post this)

This is a classic example of where we're headed if Council do not take action.  Please, this is a call to get on with things and take action.  

1.  Reduce the number of chiefs, the reason is easy, with Ovo people onboard we no longer need this many 'chiefs', it is not a reflection on any individual, thank you for all the hard work etc etc.  
2.  Cull the raid squad.  Be brutal and honest with yourself or sentiment of the above quoted post will spread like wild-fire and kill the raid squad.  The feeling is already out there, but only a few put it into words - your job is to stop it becoming gquits.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

I grabbed it and im using  it tho it's a bit of a chore to update ...

Regards wasting time i think this thread sums  it up....only 1 person has an opinion on who should be running the  guild? Over the last week a few simple request have been made with  little or no feedback. It's not a case of leave it and one of the others  will sort it out it's a case of thinking that's my bit ill look into it  

regards  Limps yeh you may be right tho I missed off Mal (sorry) so he would be  taking that spot. Tho I need to hear from our ranged guys regarding  Limps as he puts in a fair bit of effort in the raids. Bel Tan Evo are  easy ones to drop.

Please guys more feedback tho or im running blind

[Maypal]

I am not and never really have been someone who posts masses of replies on forums, I never seem to be able to find the right words for what I want to put across and find myself disagreeing with what I am typing as I am actually typing it.
I prefer to chat through the problems we are encountering in the officer channel of TS and if you see me logged on to WoW 99 times out of 100 I'm logged into TS, I feel that I get feedback from people when chatting to them on TS that is totally lost in the forums.
I remember being part of a conversation with Trickboxx , TL and Gond on TS that when it was transfered to the forum, bore very little resemblance to the actual conversation that had taken place, this being said I do scan the forums and keep my eye on the hot topics.
As far as my attendance goes, if I'm not at work I am available to raid, I work a shift pattern that means that in a 28 day period I cover every day and night of the week once. This means that in any 28 day period I WILL miss 3 raids due to being on nights.
As far as my role as an officer goes, I am prepared to assist in anyway that I can to improve our raid attendance / performance, this would include stepping aside for someone else to do the job if it was felt they could do a better job.
This is not a resignation or even a rant although as i read back it could appear to be either, it is just me offering my support in anyway that I can. (OMG give me TS anyday, this post has taken me way too long to compose and eaten into my valuable WoW time)