Alysrazor - Defeated 31/07/11

[Arcticfire]

no no, that post wast with the nerf.

[Twyst]

The little druids at least pre-nerf is 1 interrupt and 1 cast letting go and interrupt the other one.

With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through? From my perspective less fire on the ground is better than killing the add slightly faster.

[TeaLeaf]

With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through?

Because not every dps has an interrupt.  A shadow priest for example.  However 2 dps with 1st & 3rd (alternate) casts interrupted usually means the add only gets a single cast off before dying.

[Arcticfire]

with the nerf there is only 1 cast if you have 1 melee on them.

[Twyst]

Because not every dps has an interrupt.  A shadow priest for example.

You're right, as the boss mechanics in this tier (unlike the previous one) are not dependent on interrupts.

If we were still running BWD where boss mechanics are based around a constant stream of interrupts, I would argue that speccing Silence would be worth it over the potential DPS drop. If memory serves, when we were tackling the council for the first time there was a big debate in the ranged camp about who could interrupt Feludius for the lance when I had to be 6 yards away to avoid his big aoe as my interrupt requires melee range. From personal experience, I sacrificed some survival talents so I could get an interrupt without runic power required as a missed interrupt from me due to a lack of resources is a raid wipe and not good.

But we aren't running BWD anymore and this is the only fight that actually requires interrupts so I can understand why you don't so. I have also specced out of Endless Winter.

Pro tip  - Engineers have High Powered Bolt Gun which can interrupt

[Whitey]

Re the tanky phase, tanks stand on the other side of the boss so the main group should never be in the cleave zone.

The tanks should also not be in each others cleave zone, so 45 degrees apart (roughly) or run in for taunt and other tank run out.

[Azunai]

With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through? From my perspective less fire on the ground is better than killing the add slightly faster.

Oi, the thing that's being interrupted is not the thing that's causing the fire on the ground

If your people are dying, there is *no way* it's because of those interrupts not going through, if you have 2 dps on the adds. Especially post-nerf. I wanna bet me some good money that it's because people are not avoiding Brushfire. I've seen RGT'ers do it too. You *HAVE TO* watch the add - look in which direction he's casting it, and not be there when it goes off, or you're hugging up 2 ticks of Brushfire = a *lot* of damage.

You also have to be particularly directionally challenged to get hit by the fire from the Worms while dpsing adds. Ranged has no business being on the inside of the room and will be nowhere near them. Melee just stands behind the add - as in, the add is between the worm and you - and will never get hit that way. The only point where you could get hit by it is when you're going for feathers. You just have to be careful with that.

[Sithvid]

I tried flying  last night and found it a bit weird the mixed keys RL mentioned was my  main prob too and realising I spammed is instead of wrath

[Sharpfang]

wouldnt the best thing to do when flying be to steer with ure mouse both buttons and using keyboard for spells and abilites? as u can turn ure camera angle with letting go of the left button, find the circle, then press right button in again?

/sharp

Edit: keybinds could prolly help u if ure lacking buttons on bar 1

[Arcticfire]

When I did it I used my keyboard, awsd, and had no issues

[Azunai]

I think it comes down to whatever you prefer and are used to ;-) You'll want to maximize dps, but staying in the air is more important than an optimal rotation I would say. Especially now with the nerf, it won't make or break the fight if you miss a spell or two up there.

[TeaLeaf]

We're veering slightly OT here, but when I did it I used both.  I would mouse turn to line up the direction & angle I was flying at with the circle, but I used 'w' to fly through it - that's because I was using the mouse buttons to do my spell rotation and therefore using both mouse buttons to move forward would have stopped me casting spells.  So I think how you do it depends on which hand you have doing which role to start with.  

The thing to avoid is having both jobs on the same hand, i.e. AWSD for movement and all your key spells on 1,2,3,4,5 etc, because that overloads the one hand and causes problems.  

The general comment that I think we were dancing around but not referring to is that keyboard turning is generally bad for raiders and should be avoided. This remains true, but it does not mean that AWSD cannot be used, it's just not to be used when you need to 'turn & burn' quickly.

[Grimnar]

Well RGT did this boss now aswell on normal mode.

With a weird setup, Whitey as healer and Grimnar as tank.

What we noticed very quickly was that the little adds didn't even casted the spell we used to interrupt. We had them down before they even started casting that spell. At least on the right side.
I don't know because of that, that we had more or the same number of fireballs running past us in the area but they are most of the time easy to avoid.

Also the big birds are going down very quickly..  i was at the start afraid that i did not had the dps for it as i needed to look at the rest as for myself that fight looks the hardest for a dps to step in as tank.
But it went down quicker then the other one:narnar:

Also we had loads and loads of spare time waiting for the boss to start the whirlwind phase what was abit insane...  That phase itself was a laugh aswell  you are now able with just 1 feather to just follow one whirlwind. You don't even need to run in circle's.

In short that boss is a cakewalk. It is now almost the same as Ryo when they fixed and nerfed him the first time...

[TeaLeaf]

Also the big birds are going down very quickly..  i was at the start afraid that i did not had the dps for it as i needed to look at the rest as for myself that fight looks the hardest for a dps to step in as tank.

Both you and Twisted were up over 60k dps, so you did good.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-o2cxjjtc061mpjbw/sum/damageDone/?s=1546&e=2102

Something I noticed in conversation with Drea yesterday was that RGW and RGT assign roles in different ways.

RGT does two groups, left & right, 4 people in each (tank, healer & 2 dps); 1 flyer, 1 raid healer

Flyer is solely responsible for bringing Bird HP down during flight phase
For each group:
Tank kills bird.
1 healer on that tank
2 dps on the druid add (dps & interrupt) - then when druid dead dps the Bird

From what was said RGW does:
1 dps on the druid then
Tank + 1 dps on bird, with surplus dps going to Boss.

With the RGW setup you will probably see more interrupts,  more casts and a longer period during which the mob is alive and casting (and therefore a higher healing requirement due to the number of casts it gets off before death).

It might be easier for RGW to revert to the RGT setup.  
RGW tank dps is clearly high enough to kill a bird unassisted and so do not need an additional dps assigned to the Bird as they can handle it comfortably solo.
From the logs, it appears that the Flyer needs some work to be getting used to casting continuously whilst also stacking the buffs required.  DPS on the flyer should certainly be over 20k and usually over 40k.  If you are using a lock for this, try affliction if you struggle with destro whilst airborne.  If you are still struggling then it's worth a check to see which keys you use to cast and which you use to move as that will the only other place the problem could be.
This leaves 2 dps on the druid which makes the spell cast/interrupt a non-entity, particularly with the nerf - and this eases the healing requirement.

Any other balance of roles puts pressure on people where there should be none.  Asking ranged dps to dps the Boss whilst the Boss is airborne is tricky as at least 50% of the time the boss is out of range, so it is easier to focus the dps on druids first, then the Bird as these targets will always be in range.   This leave the Flyer to do his thing - and it's really quite an easy thing to handle.  You just cast and move at the same time.  Simples.

[Arcticfire]

Once again we took to long for this fight because people die during the air phase and because the flying dps isnt near the 30-40K dps. Now I would like to hear from Hermi, Sithy and Vanguish what kinda trouble they have and if you 3 have questions then please ask.